Pay Brees!

spkb25 · 08-14-2016, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go.

Drew Brees is going to be here, Drew Brees is going to sign a contract, Drew Brees is going to make 25 m

44Champs · 08-14-2016, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go.

Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

halloween 65 · 08-14-2016, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I'll try. If the Saints, which I believe is into the top teir in paying for the entire team has gone 7-9 the last 2 seasons with a top paid qb( I know since his last contract he's not the #1 top paid qb. today) going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, or 10-6 would be the same thing as paying out top dollar for Brees on a 2-14, 3-13, 4-12 team, makes entirely no since. Losing is losing, so going another direction should happen sooner than later. I don't blame Brees for not making the playoffs but why "pay the man" a huge contract if we're a stellar team. It would hurt down the road again.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-14-2016, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go.

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year.

I agree with 44Champs here.

And a point I'm going to keep pounding until folks actually start listening:

AFTER THIS SEASON, DREW BREES IS A FREE AGENT!

He will no longer be under contract with the Saints. The Saints will have to bid with the proverbial other 31 teams in the NFL for his services.

There is no waiting to evaluate. After the season the only options the Saints have is to bid for Brees on the open market, or to franchise for 2017 for $43 million.

BTW you already have that evaluation. The Saints defenses in 2014 and 2015 were by some measures the worst in NFL history. 7 wins in that situation is frankly a miracle.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, it seems that quite a few folks are putting forward what they would like to see happen. But those wants/beliefs don't match the reality of the situation. There seems to be this pervasive fear that Brees is suddenly not going to be a HOF caliber QB in the elite category of today's NFL.

SFIAH

halloween 65 · 08-14-2016, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

I agree with 44Champs here.

And a point I'm going to keep pounding until folks actually start listening:

AFTER THIS SEASON, DREW BREES IS A FREE AGENT!

He will no longer be under contract with the Saints. The Saints will have to bid with the proverbial other 31 teams in the NFL for his services.

There is no waiting to evaluate. After the season the only options the Saints have is to bid for Brees on the open market, or to franchise for 2017 for $43 million.

BTW you already have that evaluation. The Saints defenses in 2014 and 2015 were by some measures the worst in NFL history. 7 wins in that situation is frankly a miracle.

As someone else pointed out in this thread, it seems that quite a few folks are putting forward what they would like to see happen. But those wants/beliefs don't match the reality of the situation. There seems to be this pervasive fear that Brees is suddenly not going to be a HOF caliber QB in the elite category of today's NFL.

SFIAH

I get he's going to be a FA. A 38 1/2 yr. old FA at seasons end at that. I just don't believe he's going to be able to play at the level he played at last season at 41 or 42 yrs. old. Also I feel he is a HOF qb but to lay out a huge contract at that age is putting all your money into assuming he will be playing at this level that long, to dicey in my opionion. I think the Saints have put themselves in a predicament with this.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-14-2016, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

I get he's going to be a FA. A 38 1/2 yr. old FA at seasons end at that.

Once you get that then it's easy to see that the time for evaluation is over for the Saints. They have to fish or cut bait with the information they currently have because if a deal doesn't get done in the next month, then he will be a free agent next offseason.

I just don't believe he's going to be able to play at the level he played at last season at 41 or 42 yrs. old. Also I feel he is a HOF qb but to lay out a huge contract at that age is putting all your money into assuming he will be playing at this level that long, to dicey in my opionion. I think the Saints have put themselves in a predicament with this.

It is the same predicament that each and every team with a high quality QB goes through. It gets even more difficult with the heir apparent has shown they are ready. There was drama with Young and Montana. There was drama with Farve and Rodgers. I predict there will be drama in the near future with Brady and Grappalo.

But it seems clear there is no Rodgers waiting in the wings on the Saints roster. Unlike Denver, it's not clear that the Saints have the defense to start from scratch at the QB position and still remain competitive in the near future.

And the simple fact is there is no real evidence of how Brees may perform 3 years from now.

Let's try a different tack here. Everyone has outlined their fears and issues. Explain what outcomes you would like to see given the circumstances. I do ask to keep everything within the realm of NFL reality. That means no Brees accepting a 2 year $40 million contracts offered at the end of the 2016 season. By any objective measure it is completely nonsensical.

Do we get someone younger and pay them the money for extended years? If so, who? Do we draft a new QB? If so who and when? Do we pay Brees? If so, how much and how long.

I agree it's a predicament. My estimation is simple. I presume the Saints want to make another championship run in the next 3 years. If that's the case it can likely only be done with Brees on board. So we pay him the smallest market contract that he'll accept. Start at 3 years/$75 million all guaranteed and work your way up from there.

That's my opinion. What's yours?

SFIAH

QBREES9 · 08-14-2016, 04:11 PM

For the Love of GOD, pay BREES.

Danno · 08-14-2016, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by QBREES9

For the Love of GOD, pay BREES.

Pay him what?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 08-14-2016, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Pay him what?

The minimum that will keep him here instead of seeking a contract on the open market. I'd start with 3 years, $72 million, all guaranteed. The $24 million a year isn't absolute top dollar. But no NFL player has ever gotten a 100% guaranteed contract either. That may offer Brees enough stability to convince him to stay.

Note that the $24 million is both less than the $30 million cap hit he currently has and nearly half of the $43 million required to franchise him next year.

The bottom line is that Brees (and every other NFL player) want the stability of years and guaranteed money. NFL owners and GM want the flexibility to renegotiate dollars and the ability to cut the player before the end of the contract for poor performance. In the situation where the end of the contract will be for a player in his early 40s, keeping the years down is probably the critical item. But the only way to get that concession is to up the guaranteed money.

You could see this with the negotiation on the Von Miller contract this year. Both sides had agreed on the principal numbers ($114 million over 6 years). Denver offered only $40 million in guaranteed money in their initial offer. Only by pushing it to nearly $70 million guaranteed were they able to get the deal done. The reason is that the guaranteed money is the only real money in the contract. Every player and every GM knows that as soon as the cap payout is less than the upcoming remaining unguaranteed salary, that the contract in terms of the player is threatened. Upping the guaranteed money pushing that time further back into the contract. A fully guaranteed contract pushes it to the end of the contract.

So Brees, and rightly so, will resist attempts to build soft money into the contract as it threatens its stability. And he, and all of us should, know that he can dictate terms in the open market. That contract will likely be above market value, above 75% guaranteed, and have an extended number of years so that the club can spread out the cap hit.Think along the lines of 6 years $150 million, $110 million guaranteed. That's why I keep saying that if Brees agrees to a 3 or 4 year extension around $25 million a year, it ends up being a bargain for the Saints relative to the market.

So up the guaranteed money, limit the years, and try to get the total value as small as possible. That's the formula for getting this done IMHO.

SFIAH

lee909 · 08-14-2016, 04:40 PM

Monkey nuts

08-14-2016, 05:32 PM	#2
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by halloween 65 I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go. Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

08-14-2016, 06:05 PM	#3
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by 44Champs Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk I'll try. If the Saints, which I believe is into the top teir in paying for the entire team has gone 7-9 the last 2 seasons with a top paid qb( I know since his last contract he's not the #1 top paid qb. today) going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7, or 10-6 would be the same thing as paying out top dollar for Brees on a 2-14, 3-13, 4-12 team, makes entirely no since. Losing is losing, so going another direction should happen sooner than later. I don't blame Brees for not making the playoffs but why "pay the man" a huge contract if we're a stellar team. It would hurt down the road again.

08-14-2016, 06:59 PM	#4
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,785	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by halloween 65 I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go. Originally Posted by 44Champs Please expound on your point as to why that would be. Brees isnt the reason why we didnt make the playoffs and had back to back 7-9 seasons. He's the reason why we're still a contender every year. I agree with 44Champs here. And a point I'm going to keep pounding until folks actually start listening: AFTER THIS SEASON, DREW BREES IS A FREE AGENT! He will no longer be under contract with the Saints. The Saints will have to bid with the proverbial other 31 teams in the NFL for his services. There is no waiting to evaluate. After the season the only options the Saints have is to bid for Brees on the open market, or to franchise for 2017 for $43 million. BTW you already have that evaluation. The Saints defenses in 2014 and 2015 were by some measures the worst in NFL history. 7 wins in that situation is frankly a miracle. As someone else pointed out in this thread, it seems that quite a few folks are putting forward what they would like to see happen. But those wants/beliefs don't match the reality of the situation. There seems to be this pervasive fear that Brees is suddenly not going to be a HOF caliber QB in the elite category of today's NFL. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-14-2016, 07:32 PM	#5
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL I agree with 44Champs here. And a point I'm going to keep pounding until folks actually start listening: AFTER THIS SEASON, DREW BREES IS A FREE AGENT! He will no longer be under contract with the Saints. The Saints will have to bid with the proverbial other 31 teams in the NFL for his services. There is no waiting to evaluate. After the season the only options the Saints have is to bid for Brees on the open market, or to franchise for 2017 for $43 million. BTW you already have that evaluation. The Saints defenses in 2014 and 2015 were by some measures the worst in NFL history. 7 wins in that situation is frankly a miracle. As someone else pointed out in this thread, it seems that quite a few folks are putting forward what they would like to see happen. But those wants/beliefs don't match the reality of the situation. There seems to be this pervasive fear that Brees is suddenly not going to be a HOF caliber QB in the elite category of today's NFL. SFIAH I get he's going to be a FA. A 38 1/2 yr. old FA at seasons end at that. I just don't believe he's going to be able to play at the level he played at last season at 41 or 42 yrs. old. Also I feel he is a HOF qb but to lay out a huge contract at that age is putting all your money into assuming he will be playing at this level that long, to dicey in my opionion. I think the Saints have put themselves in a predicament with this.

08-14-2016, 09:44 PM	#6
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,785	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by halloween 65 I get he's going to be a FA. A 38 1/2 yr. old FA at seasons end at that. Once you get that then it's easy to see that the time for evaluation is over for the Saints. They have to fish or cut bait with the information they currently have because if a deal doesn't get done in the next month, then he will be a free agent next offseason. I just don't believe he's going to be able to play at the level he played at last season at 41 or 42 yrs. old. Also I feel he is a HOF qb but to lay out a huge contract at that age is putting all your money into assuming he will be playing at this level that long, to dicey in my opionion. I think the Saints have put themselves in a predicament with this. It is the same predicament that each and every team with a high quality QB goes through. It gets even more difficult with the heir apparent has shown they are ready. There was drama with Young and Montana. There was drama with Farve and Rodgers. I predict there will be drama in the near future with Brady and Grappalo. But it seems clear there is no Rodgers waiting in the wings on the Saints roster. Unlike Denver, it's not clear that the Saints have the defense to start from scratch at the QB position and still remain competitive in the near future. And the simple fact is there is no real evidence of how Brees may perform 3 years from now. Let's try a different tack here. Everyone has outlined their fears and issues. Explain what outcomes you would like to see given the circumstances. I do ask to keep everything within the realm of NFL reality. That means no Brees accepting a 2 year $40 million contracts offered at the end of the 2016 season. By any objective measure it is completely nonsensical. Do we get someone younger and pay them the money for extended years? If so, who? Do we draft a new QB? If so who and when? Do we pay Brees? If so, how much and how long. I agree it's a predicament. My estimation is simple. I presume the Saints want to make another championship run in the next 3 years. If that's the case it can likely only be done with Brees on board. So we pay him the smallest market contract that he'll accept. Start at 3 years/$75 million all guaranteed and work your way up from there. That's my opinion. What's yours? SFIAH AsylumGuido and halloween 65 like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-14-2016, 12:39 PM	#1
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,145	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by halloween 65 I believe if we don't have a deep, deep playoff run with Brees under C this season then he's not going to be here next season. Another 7-9 or even a 9-7 isn't going to cut it. Could be the FO is waiting to see how things go. Drew Brees is going to be here, Drew Brees is going to sign a contract, Drew Brees is going to make 25 m

08-14-2016, 04:11 PM	#7
QBREES9 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Haven Ct Posts: 23,990	Re: Pay Brees! For the Love of GOD, pay BREES. spkb25 likes this.

08-14-2016, 04:14 PM	#8
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,758	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by QBREES9 For the Love of GOD, pay BREES. Pay him what?

08-14-2016, 06:15 PM	#9
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,785	Re: Pay Brees! Originally Posted by Danno Pay him what? The minimum that will keep him here instead of seeking a contract on the open market. I'd start with 3 years, $72 million, all guaranteed. The $24 million a year isn't absolute top dollar. But no NFL player has ever gotten a 100% guaranteed contract either. That may offer Brees enough stability to convince him to stay. Note that the $24 million is both less than the $30 million cap hit he currently has and nearly half of the $43 million required to franchise him next year. The bottom line is that Brees (and every other NFL player) want the stability of years and guaranteed money. NFL owners and GM want the flexibility to renegotiate dollars and the ability to cut the player before the end of the contract for poor performance. In the situation where the end of the contract will be for a player in his early 40s, keeping the years down is probably the critical item. But the only way to get that concession is to up the guaranteed money. You could see this with the negotiation on the Von Miller contract this year. Both sides had agreed on the principal numbers ($114 million over 6 years). Denver offered only $40 million in guaranteed money in their initial offer. Only by pushing it to nearly $70 million guaranteed were they able to get the deal done. The reason is that the guaranteed money is the only real money in the contract. Every player and every GM knows that as soon as the cap payout is less than the upcoming remaining unguaranteed salary, that the contract in terms of the player is threatened. Upping the guaranteed money pushing that time further back into the contract. A fully guaranteed contract pushes it to the end of the contract. So Brees, and rightly so, will resist attempts to build soft money into the contract as it threatens its stability. And he, and all of us should, know that he can dictate terms in the open market. That contract will likely be above market value, above 75% guaranteed, and have an extended number of years so that the club can spread out the cap hit.Think along the lines of 6 years $150 million, $110 million guaranteed. That's why I keep saying that if Brees agrees to a 3 or 4 year extension around $25 million a year, it ends up being a bargain for the Saints relative to the market. So up the guaranteed money, limit the years, and try to get the total value as small as possible. That's the formula for getting this done IMHO. SFIAH
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

08-14-2016, 04:40 PM	#10
lee909 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,875 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pay Brees! Monkey nuts

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