Saints Draft Board

papz · 03-10-2005, 05:01 PM

There are a lot of other people who enjoy your postings CanLoomis... keep up the good work. I could care less about if you did or didn\'t work where ever. I love seeing other views and getting information that we can\'t obtain via free lancing on the internet whether it\'s true or farce. :iloveyou:

saintswhodi · 03-10-2005, 05:04 PM

Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you.

Being called a liar was unecessary, but dude did say he was sorry didn\'t he? What\'s the point of threatening to leave? Some members obviously have taken a shine to you and some are a bit more skeptical, what\'s the big deal? I guarantee EVERY memeber of this forum has been questioned as to the nature of their information at one time or another. We don\'t know each other from Adam. You could be sitting in jail typing this stuff for all anyone knows. Nothing is wrong with someone requesting proof IMO. So to take that tact when you know some members are eager to talk to you and get more info from you seems kinda lowball. This is an internet forum where info is at a premium, it is a SAINTS forum, we are ALL skeptical until we see proof about this team, history has taught us that. No need to use your instantly accepted insider status as a means to make threats to leave. If you are who you say you are, the proof will be evident. But if you can\'t handle skeptics, well, I don\'t know what to say to that, cause there will always be some.

turbo_dog · 03-10-2005, 05:09 PM

Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you.

Being called a liar was unecessary, but dude did say he was sorry didn\'t he? What\'s the point of threatening to leave? Some members obviously have taken a shine to you and some are a bit more skeptical, what\'s the big deal? I guarantee EVERY memeber of this forum has been questioned as to the nature of their information at one time or another. We don\'t know each other from Adam. You could be sitting in jail typing this stuff for all anyone knows. Nothing is wrong with someone requesting proof IMO. So to take that tact when you know some members are eager to talk to you and get more info from you seems kinda lowball. This is an internet forum where info is at a premium, it is a SAINTS forum, we are ALL skeptical until we see proof about this team, history has taught us that. No need to use your instantly accepted insider status as a means to make threats to leave. If you are who you say you are, the proof will be evident. But if you can\'t handle skeptics, well, I don\'t know what to say to that, cause there will always be some.

Whodi, that\'s by far your best post ever.

WhoDat · 03-10-2005, 06:45 PM

You all have the right to question me. I don\'t have anything to prove to anyone, but to ease everyone\'s feelings, I sent JOESAM two different pieces of information that was sent to me by the team. I don\'t have to prove myself with links. I don\'t have to prove myself with anything. I know where I have been and what I have done. I am above that by now. You can believe me or not. Honestly, It\'s not going to bother me either way. I joined this board because I am a Saints fan and because I felt I could add something most fan boards lack....a REAL INSIDER. Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you.

CanLoomis,

Please take this for whatever it is worth. It is only my opinion.

I\'ve watched you post here since you first arrived not long ago, and I don\'t believe I\'ve responded to a single post of yours. Reason being - I was struck by your posts much the same way Shadow seems to have been.

Before I go a step further, let me say that I appreciate your contribution to the board, if for no other reason than your style of posting. You\'re straight forward, articulate, and obviously knowledgeable.

That said, can you not see why some of the information that you proport to have received from inside sources is met with skepticism? 80% or more of this board is nothing more than opinion. Of the 20% that may be classified as informational, I\'d say about 1% at the most is \"inside\" information. I think that\'s being generous.

My point being - I could read a couple of scouting reports, do some internet research, and come back in here and fool a whole lot of people. Why any person would ever want to do that is beyond me, and I am in no way suggesting that\'s what you are doing. But can you not understand why a person might hesitate?

For example, I could say 100% truthfully that I am a licensed securities broker, that I worked in the industry handling accounts in the tens of millions of dollars range, that I still have friends in the industry in New Orleans (amongst other places), that my family owns car dealerships in LA and that has put us (yes, myself included) in contact with a fairly small circle of people who still have ties and access to Tom Benson, that I and members of my family bank at one of the banks that the Saints use, and that I could call up a person who potentially (or probably explicitly) has access to a Benson account.

All of that is true. Do you believe it? Moreover, if I said that I talked to a banker who said that Benson transferred $15 million to an offshore account the day after the State paid the Saints, wouldn\'t you be a little skeptical? Why would a banker tell me that?

Listen man, my intent here is not to attack you, by any means. You\'re a good member of this board, and I hope you stick around. I\'m just trying to demonstrate where the static is coming from.

To me, if you want to pass stuff off as opinion, do it all you want. But people on this board hound each other over anything resembling a fact and the source of that information. If we do that with public information, I would only expect the standard to be higher for \"insider\" information. You\'re right, you don\'t have to prove a damn thing to anybody. Then again, people are free to challenge your sources all they want. The forum conduct rules specifically state that you must cite your source. I obviously understand why you would choose not to given the information that you\'re posting.... of course, that\'s exactly why you\'ll be challenged (rightfully so in my opinion) on it.

I hope there are no hard feelings. I\'m just trying to be straight.

FrenzyFan · 03-11-2005, 07:33 AM

Recently I wrote about giving someone a chance to prove themselves. It doesn\'t matter to me one way or another. I was speaking purely about the philosophy of the thing.

If a person becomes defensive went they state an opinion contrary to most others, it is often going to be questioned. Historically, you can look at many great minds who were outside the \"consensus\" opinion and were doubted. As an example look at Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory, Wegener and the Conitnental Drift Theory. I could list them here all day.

In each of the cases above, however, when asked for proof the person outside consensus did not become defensive, threaten the questioner, \"grab his ball and go home\". It was simple to them. They knew they were right and the others were wrong. The skeptics wanted proof, here it is.

There have been an even greater number of people in the history of science who have come forward with untrue or erroneous information.

I know those are pretty black-and-white examples but the message behind those examples holds true. I recognize that in some cases, it would be damaging to a person to reveal confidential sources. In my line of work, I recognize that more than most (relax, I won\'t write my work history

). If that were the case then I don\'t know why they would ever be published to an open message board in the first place. I know I didn\'t rise to my current trusted position by breaking that trust and passing confidential information to people who are not supposed to have it.

All that aside, I am as curious as the next guy and a Saints fanatic. I would love to have an inside source and it would make this board infinitely better. I hope that we are seeing the real thing here. I hope that, though his opinions are controversial, the poster we are all talking about recognizes that it is RIGHT to be a skeptic, and that they will take the time to prove the skeptics wrong.

If not, that\'s cool too. I recognize that the people on this board are some of the most informed fans in Saint-dom. I\'ll still get good information here and be able to make up my own mind about how the Saints are doing.

GumboBC · 03-11-2005, 07:39 AM

Look, this has got to be one of the most silly things I\'ve EVER read here.

Folks suggesting CanLoomis is a liar? It seems to me that before someone goes attacking a \"member\" of this board that the burden of proof is on THEM. And until you HAVE that PROOF, then you\'d probably be better served by keeping quiet.

IMO, there\'s nothing wrong with challenging his opinions, the content of his information ... BUT, some have taken this thing WAY too far.

CanLoomis isn\'t some guy in the \"media\" who writes this stuff for a living. CanLoomis is a MEMBER of B&G (a new one at that) and he should be treated with some respect.

I see where CanLoomis has sent Joe some proof of who he says he is. That\'s good.

It really makes no difference to me who CanLoomis is. I\'m sure I\'m not always gonna agree with him. But, until I have some PROOF that he isn\'t who he says he is, then ... what is there to say? NOTHING!!!

By the way, I do believe CanLoomis!!

[Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC]

GoldenTomb · 03-11-2005, 07:59 AM

I have my own take on the matter.

I am currently in the Army. Whenever CNN or NBC posts something that soldiers consider to be valuable information, like \"Special Forces were within one hour of catching Saddam Hussien, we say \"Come on...they are undermining operation security....they are telling the enemy what we\'re going to do\". Fact is that Army intelligence is so far ahead of whatever news comes out that it\'s useless for all purposes to the enemy.

I said it earlier in this post...teams already track who other teams might be taking in the draft. There are no \"secret players\" or anything. Everyone scouts the same players, and all of the teams know pretty much who the teams are looking at.

I\'m sure the Saints correspond regularly with other teams as to draft positions, whether it be to trade up or down. The whole NFL is networked like that.

In short....I wouldn\'t consider a team\'s draft list valuable information.

BlackandBlue · 03-11-2005, 08:23 AM

Couldn\'t have put it better myself, WhoDat.

All you little madonna\'s who are bent out of shape on this crusade for one side or the other, need to step away from the keyboard for a second and ask yourselves one question-

\"Is it worth getting this riled up, over a message board?\"

Get a grip, most of you who get wound up so tight, is because you fail to force your beliefs on another, here. Who cares? Is the information CanLoomis posts interesting? Sure. Should I believe every single article, post, and news clipping I read? Hell, no. Get the information, form your own opinion on the matter, and stop getting mad because someone is not looking at it from the same point of view.
I, like whodat and shadow, was brought up to question information presented to me, regardless of the source. It\'s not anything personal, it\'s the way we are.
This virtual bickering needs to stop. Take the virtual chips from your virtual shoulders and just relax.

FrenzyFan · 03-11-2005, 08:36 AM

LOL!!

BnB, I love your directness!

baronm · 03-11-2005, 08:52 AM

Is it worth getting this riled up, over a message board?\"

thank you-can we move on now?

03-10-2005, 05:01 PM	#61
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,681	Saints Draft Board There are a lot of other people who enjoy your postings CanLoomis... keep up the good work. I could care less about if you did or didn\'t work where ever. I love seeing other views and getting information that we can\'t obtain via free lancing on the internet whether it\'s true or farce. :iloveyou:

03-10-2005, 05:04 PM	#62
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Saints Draft Board Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you. Being called a liar was unecessary, but dude did say he was sorry didn\'t he? What\'s the point of threatening to leave? Some members obviously have taken a shine to you and some are a bit more skeptical, what\'s the big deal? I guarantee EVERY memeber of this forum has been questioned as to the nature of their information at one time or another. We don\'t know each other from Adam. You could be sitting in jail typing this stuff for all anyone knows. Nothing is wrong with someone requesting proof IMO. So to take that tact when you know some members are eager to talk to you and get more info from you seems kinda lowball. This is an internet forum where info is at a premium, it is a SAINTS forum, we are ALL skeptical until we see proof about this team, history has taught us that. No need to use your instantly accepted insider status as a means to make threats to leave. If you are who you say you are, the proof will be evident. But if you can\'t handle skeptics, well, I don\'t know what to say to that, cause there will always be some.

03-10-2005, 05:09 PM	#63
turbo_dog 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,540	Saints Draft Board Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you. Being called a liar was unecessary, but dude did say he was sorry didn\'t he? What\'s the point of threatening to leave? Some members obviously have taken a shine to you and some are a bit more skeptical, what\'s the big deal? I guarantee EVERY memeber of this forum has been questioned as to the nature of their information at one time or another. We don\'t know each other from Adam. You could be sitting in jail typing this stuff for all anyone knows. Nothing is wrong with someone requesting proof IMO. So to take that tact when you know some members are eager to talk to you and get more info from you seems kinda lowball. This is an internet forum where info is at a premium, it is a SAINTS forum, we are ALL skeptical until we see proof about this team, history has taught us that. No need to use your instantly accepted insider status as a means to make threats to leave. If you are who you say you are, the proof will be evident. But if you can\'t handle skeptics, well, I don\'t know what to say to that, cause there will always be some. Whodi, that\'s by far your best post ever.

03-10-2005, 06:45 PM	#64
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Saints Draft Board You all have the right to question me. I don\'t have anything to prove to anyone, but to ease everyone\'s feelings, I sent JOESAM two different pieces of information that was sent to me by the team. I don\'t have to prove myself with links. I don\'t have to prove myself with anything. I know where I have been and what I have done. I am above that by now. You can believe me or not. Honestly, It\'s not going to bother me either way. I joined this board because I am a Saints fan and because I felt I could add something most fan boards lack....a REAL INSIDER. Being called a liar or being told \"proof\" is needed to validate what I write on here is not something that will keep me here long, that I can assure you. CanLoomis, Please take this for whatever it is worth. It is only my opinion. I\'ve watched you post here since you first arrived not long ago, and I don\'t believe I\'ve responded to a single post of yours. Reason being - I was struck by your posts much the same way Shadow seems to have been. Before I go a step further, let me say that I appreciate your contribution to the board, if for no other reason than your style of posting. You\'re straight forward, articulate, and obviously knowledgeable. That said, can you not see why some of the information that you proport to have received from inside sources is met with skepticism? 80% or more of this board is nothing more than opinion. Of the 20% that may be classified as informational, I\'d say about 1% at the most is \"inside\" information. I think that\'s being generous. My point being - I could read a couple of scouting reports, do some internet research, and come back in here and fool a whole lot of people. Why any person would ever want to do that is beyond me, and I am in no way suggesting that\'s what you are doing. But can you not understand why a person might hesitate? For example, I could say 100% truthfully that I am a licensed securities broker, that I worked in the industry handling accounts in the tens of millions of dollars range, that I still have friends in the industry in New Orleans (amongst other places), that my family owns car dealerships in LA and that has put us (yes, myself included) in contact with a fairly small circle of people who still have ties and access to Tom Benson, that I and members of my family bank at one of the banks that the Saints use, and that I could call up a person who potentially (or probably explicitly) has access to a Benson account. All of that is true. Do you believe it? Moreover, if I said that I talked to a banker who said that Benson transferred $15 million to an offshore account the day after the State paid the Saints, wouldn\'t you be a little skeptical? Why would a banker tell me that? Listen man, my intent here is not to attack you, by any means. You\'re a good member of this board, and I hope you stick around. I\'m just trying to demonstrate where the static is coming from. To me, if you want to pass stuff off as opinion, do it all you want. But people on this board hound each other over anything resembling a fact and the source of that information. If we do that with public information, I would only expect the standard to be higher for \"insider\" information. You\'re right, you don\'t have to prove a damn thing to anybody. Then again, people are free to challenge your sources all they want. The forum conduct rules specifically state that you must cite your source. I obviously understand why you would choose not to given the information that you\'re posting.... of course, that\'s exactly why you\'ll be challenged (rightfully so in my opinion) on it. I hope there are no hard feelings. I\'m just trying to be straight.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

03-11-2005, 07:33 AM	#65
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Saints Draft Board Recently I wrote about giving someone a chance to prove themselves. It doesn\'t matter to me one way or another. I was speaking purely about the philosophy of the thing. If a person becomes defensive went they state an opinion contrary to most others, it is often going to be questioned. Historically, you can look at many great minds who were outside the \"consensus\" opinion and were doubted. As an example look at Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory, Wegener and the Conitnental Drift Theory. I could list them here all day. In each of the cases above, however, when asked for proof the person outside consensus did not become defensive, threaten the questioner, \"grab his ball and go home\". It was simple to them. They knew they were right and the others were wrong. The skeptics wanted proof, here it is. There have been an even greater number of people in the history of science who have come forward with untrue or erroneous information. I know those are pretty black-and-white examples but the message behind those examples holds true. I recognize that in some cases, it would be damaging to a person to reveal confidential sources. In my line of work, I recognize that more than most (relax, I won\'t write my work history ). If that were the case then I don\'t know why they would ever be published to an open message board in the first place. I know I didn\'t rise to my current trusted position by breaking that trust and passing confidential information to people who are not supposed to have it. All that aside, I am as curious as the next guy and a Saints fanatic. I would love to have an inside source and it would make this board infinitely better. I hope that we are seeing the real thing here. I hope that, though his opinions are controversial, the poster we are all talking about recognizes that it is RIGHT to be a skeptic, and that they will take the time to prove the skeptics wrong. If not, that\'s cool too. I recognize that the people on this board are some of the most informed fans in Saint-dom. I\'ll still get good information here and be able to make up my own mind about how the Saints are doing.
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	\"The AB brand of TP will hurt your O-ring.\" - BlackandBlue http://www.darrylbercegeay.com/wsmith1.jpg

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03-11-2005, 07:39 AM	#66
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Saints Draft Board Look, this has got to be one of the most silly things I\'ve EVER read here. Folks suggesting CanLoomis is a liar? It seems to me that before someone goes attacking a \"member\" of this board that the burden of proof is on THEM. And until you HAVE that PROOF, then you\'d probably be better served by keeping quiet. IMO, there\'s nothing wrong with challenging his opinions, the content of his information ... BUT, some have taken this thing WAY too far. CanLoomis isn\'t some guy in the \"media\" who writes this stuff for a living. CanLoomis is a MEMBER of B&G (a new one at that) and he should be treated with some respect. I see where CanLoomis has sent Joe some proof of who he says he is. That\'s good. It really makes no difference to me who CanLoomis is. I\'m sure I\'m not always gonna agree with him. But, until I have some PROOF that he isn\'t who he says he is, then ... what is there to say? NOTHING!!! By the way, I do believe CanLoomis!! [Edited on 11/3/2005 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

03-11-2005, 07:59 AM	#67
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591	Saints Draft Board I have my own take on the matter. I am currently in the Army. Whenever CNN or NBC posts something that soldiers consider to be valuable information, like \"Special Forces were within one hour of catching Saddam Hussien, we say \"Come on...they are undermining operation security....they are telling the enemy what we\'re going to do\". Fact is that Army intelligence is so far ahead of whatever news comes out that it\'s useless for all purposes to the enemy. I said it earlier in this post...teams already track who other teams might be taking in the draft. There are no \"secret players\" or anything. Everyone scouts the same players, and all of the teams know pretty much who the teams are looking at. I\'m sure the Saints correspond regularly with other teams as to draft positions, whether it be to trade up or down. The whole NFL is networked like that. In short....I wouldn\'t consider a team\'s draft list valuable information.
GoldenTomb 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 591

03-11-2005, 08:23 AM	#68
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	Saints Draft Board Couldn\'t have put it better myself, WhoDat. All you little madonna\'s who are bent out of shape on this crusade for one side or the other, need to step away from the keyboard for a second and ask yourselves one question- \"Is it worth getting this riled up, over a message board?\" Get a grip, most of you who get wound up so tight, is because you fail to force your beliefs on another, here. Who cares? Is the information CanLoomis posts interesting? Sure. Should I believe every single article, post, and news clipping I read? Hell, no. Get the information, form your own opinion on the matter, and stop getting mad because someone is not looking at it from the same point of view. I, like whodat and shadow, was brought up to question information presented to me, regardless of the source. It\'s not anything personal, it\'s the way we are. This virtual bickering needs to stop. Take the virtual chips from your virtual shoulders and just relax.
	The waiting drove me mad.... I don't want to hear from those that know... Everything has changed, absolutely nothing's changed Eddie is a....draftnik?

03-11-2005, 08:36 AM	#69
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406	Saints Draft Board LOL!! BnB, I love your directness!
FrenzyFan 100th Post Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 406

03-11-2005, 08:52 AM	#70
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954	Saints Draft Board Is it worth getting this riled up, over a message board?\" thank you-can we move on now?
baronm 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 954