Defense Defense Defense

vpheughan · 03-25-2017, 08:55 PM

Thomas yards after catch were different. That's not the way ODB ran. Or Brown.

Yards after catch mean exactly that. They don't differ from team to team or player to player.

I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown (#28), Jones(#19), ODB (#7), Green (#67). He's not even Evans (#142), Allen, and Watkins.

The number in ( ) is where the aforementioned WR's ranked in YAC.

WillSaints81 · 03-25-2017, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I know nothing about the Steelers, you are quite correct, but didn't you say mid season you were "done supporting the saints" and you honestly think that a receiver who caught one pass all season, is better for us than one who catches 80+ passes. Fail.

Who was the QB for Minnesota? Who quit on the vikings because their offense didn't paint him in a good light? Treadwell came to a mess.

dizzle88 · 03-25-2017, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

Who was the QB for Minnesota? Who quit on the vikings because their offense didn't paint him in a good light? Treadwell came to a mess.

Yet, that didn't stop Adam Thilen and Stefon Diggs both recording over 900 yards.

Utah_Saint · 03-25-2017, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

Thomas reminded me of number two guys last year like Decker and Sanders. Those receivers could not stand alone as number ones. I don't see Thomas as a number one. I have seen Colston in his prime catch deep TD passes. Thomas has not shown that yet. I just don't see it. He was fine where he was but I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown, Jones, ODB, Green. He's not even Evans, Allen, and Watkins.

The truth is the saints don't have many things good, that fans over-value what is good.

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

Thomas was top ten in all receiving stats, including +20yard plays.

2016 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

He had the second highest number catches of any receiver in the history of the NFL.

He ranked #2 in FootballOutsiders.com DYAR rankings
#2 in DVOA
2nd in catch percentage.
2nd in Yards After Reception

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Statistically speaking he was one of the best receivers in the league last year.

I think without Cooks in the lineup, Thomas will be a top 5 receiver in almost every category next season.

Why do you think he's not a number 1 receiver?

frydaddy · 03-25-2017, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

When Colston caught that monster pass against GB in 2008, that's not something I can see Thomas doing.

What about the touchdown that MT caught off the helmet of a defender whilst falling backwards? You don't have a leg to stand on in criticism of him pal. Fact is, and I tryn hard not to be ugly..but, you're kind of an idiot. Your posts are largely incoherent and 100% negative for the sake of negativity all the time. You make the other Debbie downers around here look like optimists. I wish you'd just make good on your threat to go find a new team to root for.

dizzle88 · 03-26-2017, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by frydaddy

What about the touchdown that MT caught off the helmet of a defender whilst falling backwards? You don't have a leg to stand on in criticism of him pal. Fact is, and I tryn hard not to be ugly..but, you're kind of an idiot. Your posts are largely incoherent and 100% negative for the sake of negativity all the time. You make the other Debbie downers around here look like optimists. I wish you'd just make good on your threat to go find a new team to root for.

If I could like this a thousand times I would!

lee909 · 03-26-2017, 05:16 AM

How can anyone have a issue with Thomas. He started a little quietly but quickly became a monster. He needs to Continue to put the effort in and improve but he was legitimately one of the top WR in the league last year in a team without a go to WR.

lee909 · 03-26-2017, 05:20 AM

Why is fantasy football being used as anything relevant in any pro football discussion. I play the game but it has absolutely no relevance to actual football.

Players pick up yards in garbage time. Defenses go from scoring high to low by playing prevent defense.

FinSaint · 03-26-2017, 07:17 AM

I do hope they draft BPA regardless of the position, but if they have same scores on multiple players at their pick - I hope they take a defensive player.

FinSaint · 03-26-2017, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by WillSaints81

There you go again comparing our offense to Minnesota's. Minnesota wanted Treadwell to be the number two behind Diggs. He was also a bad fit for that team from the get go.

As someone who follows the Vikes very closely - as they are my second favorite team - my understanding is that they wanted Treadwell to be a #1 posession receiver, somewhat similar to what Julio Jones does for Atlanta.

Minnesota's quick release offense forced them to make multiple unwanted changes to their playbook, but the reason Treadwell didn't see the field more is that Bradford was unable to create any sort of chemistry with him due to Bradford's late arrival and Treadwell's unexpected problems of grasping the fundamentals of the playbook and playstyle - huge problems from the start of the rookie camp.

These unwanted changes were the result of probably one of the worst O-lines in the league, which resulted in no running game and no pass blocking, which forced Turner to adapt a quick release slant offense that didn't fit a lot of the personnel they had, including Treadwell who couldn't run the routes properly. Turner's offenses rely heavily on a strong running game and play action, but once that was taken away from him - he couldn't adapt to the situation.

I would never ever make the statement that Treadwell would've performed as well in the Saints' offense as Thomas. The kid has natural talent and potential, but only time will tell if he can become a #1 or a #2 NFL receiver.

Just my 2 cents.

03-25-2017, 08:55 PM	#41
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,520	Re: Defense Defense Defense Thomas yards after catch were different. That's not the way ODB ran. Or Brown. Yards after catch mean exactly that. They don't differ from team to team or player to player. I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown (#28), Jones(#19), ODB (#7), Green (#67). He's not even Evans (#142), Allen, and Watkins. The number in ( ) is where the aforementioned WR's ranked in YAC.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,520

03-25-2017, 08:56 PM	#42
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 I know nothing about the Steelers, you are quite correct, but didn't you say mid season you were "done supporting the saints" and you honestly think that a receiver who caught one pass all season, is better for us than one who catches 80+ passes. Fail. Who was the QB for Minnesota? Who quit on the vikings because their offense didn't paint him in a good light? Treadwell came to a mess.

03-25-2017, 09:02 PM	#43
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 Who was the QB for Minnesota? Who quit on the vikings because their offense didn't paint him in a good light? Treadwell came to a mess. Yet, that didn't stop Adam Thilen and Stefon Diggs both recording over 900 yards. frydaddy likes this.

03-25-2017, 10:16 PM	#44
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 Thomas reminded me of number two guys last year like Decker and Sanders. Those receivers could not stand alone as number ones. I don't see Thomas as a number one. I have seen Colston in his prime catch deep TD passes. Thomas has not shown that yet. I just don't see it. He was fine where he was but I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown, Jones, ODB, Green. He's not even Evans, Allen, and Watkins. The truth is the saints don't have many things good, that fans over-value what is good. I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. Thomas was top ten in all receiving stats, including +20yard plays. 2016 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN He had the second highest number catches of any receiver in the history of the NFL. He ranked #2 in FootballOutsiders.com DYAR rankings #2 in DVOA 2nd in catch percentage. 2nd in Yards After Reception http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr Statistically speaking he was one of the best receivers in the league last year. I think without Cooks in the lineup, Thomas will be a top 5 receiver in almost every category next season. Why do you think he's not a number 1 receiver? frydaddy likes this.

03-25-2017, 10:49 PM	#45
frydaddy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Lafayette Posts: 1,950 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 When Colston caught that monster pass against GB in 2008, that's not something I can see Thomas doing. What about the touchdown that MT caught off the helmet of a defender whilst falling backwards? You don't have a leg to stand on in criticism of him pal. Fact is, and I tryn hard not to be ugly..but, you're kind of an idiot. Your posts are largely incoherent and 100% negative for the sake of negativity all the time. You make the other Debbie downers around here look like optimists. I wish you'd just make good on your threat to go find a new team to root for. SmashMouth, \|Mitch\|, dizzle88 and 3 others like this.

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03-26-2017, 05:05 AM	#46
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,208	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by frydaddy What about the touchdown that MT caught off the helmet of a defender whilst falling backwards? You don't have a leg to stand on in criticism of him pal. Fact is, and I tryn hard not to be ugly..but, you're kind of an idiot. Your posts are largely incoherent and 100% negative for the sake of negativity all the time. You make the other Debbie downers around here look like optimists. I wish you'd just make good on your threat to go find a new team to root for. If I could like this a thousand times I would!

03-26-2017, 05:16 AM	#47
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Defense Defense Defense How can anyone have a issue with Thomas. He started a little quietly but quickly became a monster. He needs to Continue to put the effort in and improve but he was legitimately one of the top WR in the league last year in a team without a go to WR. Rell&Gold likes this.

03-26-2017, 05:20 AM	#48
lee909 Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Watford England Posts: 8,803 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Defense Defense Defense Why is fantasy football being used as anything relevant in any pro football discussion. I play the game but it has absolutely no relevance to actual football. Players pick up yards in garbage time. Defenses go from scoring high to low by playing prevent defense.

03-26-2017, 07:17 AM	#49
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Defense Defense Defense I do hope they draft BPA regardless of the position, but if they have same scores on multiple players at their pick - I hope they take a defensive player. Sarik likes this.

03-26-2017, 08:07 AM	#50
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,961	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by WillSaints81 There you go again comparing our offense to Minnesota's. Minnesota wanted Treadwell to be the number two behind Diggs. He was also a bad fit for that team from the get go. As someone who follows the Vikes very closely - as they are my second favorite team - my understanding is that they wanted Treadwell to be a #1 posession receiver, somewhat similar to what Julio Jones does for Atlanta. Minnesota's quick release offense forced them to make multiple unwanted changes to their playbook, but the reason Treadwell didn't see the field more is that Bradford was unable to create any sort of chemistry with him due to Bradford's late arrival and Treadwell's unexpected problems of grasping the fundamentals of the playbook and playstyle - huge problems from the start of the rookie camp. These unwanted changes were the result of probably one of the worst O-lines in the league, which resulted in no running game and no pass blocking, which forced Turner to adapt a quick release slant offense that didn't fit a lot of the personnel they had, including Treadwell who couldn't run the routes properly. Turner's offenses rely heavily on a strong running game and play action, but once that was taken away from him - he couldn't adapt to the situation. I would never ever make the statement that Treadwell would've performed as well in the Saints' offense as Thomas. The kid has natural talent and potential, but only time will tell if he can become a #1 or a #2 NFL receiver. Just my 2 cents.
	"I'm not bashing people, I'm bashing their opinions because in my opinion their opinion is wrong" - Danno

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