Defense Defense Defense

Seer1 · 03-24-2017, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

He's pretty good

Sorry, had him confused with Matt Millen.

Y'all have done everything but come right out and say it. Without the coaches, our players are gonna suck regardless of talent level. Hagan, I'm thinking a few more additions to our D and we're gonna do some good stuff this year with the new coaches we have. Now that being said, I'm not going to cry or chew on my computer if we take O.J. with our first and then spend some time on the D side of the ball with the next three or four.

WillSaints81 · 03-24-2017, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

We also lost the division to Carolina because of our offense in road games. Hagan is right. Yes, we need defense. But Brees showed in 2014 that without Colston in his prime, Cooks, and a attentive Graham(who teams easily shadowed), he wasn't that great. Oline maybe, but the oline's had the same performances against any pressuring defense.

The offense didn't look all that great last year in terms of points against NYG, SD(turnovers won that game), KC, Seattle, Denver, Carolina, DETROIT, TBx2, Atlanta.

So we were ranked top five. Big deal. The bottom line is the points don't match up.

Also, we got Warford to replace Evans not the LG, which Warford is not. The FO didn't even consider Armstead's injury issues leaving the likes of Lelito(who is gone), Kelemete to man that position. It's like we are relying on Armstead to be completely healthy.

Brees tends to throw a pick against every good defense he faces which is frustrating. Ted Ginn JR cannot replace Cooks. Are we really relying on the lightbulb coming on for Fleener? Nvm he can't block so he won't get all the snaps.

CheramieIII · 03-24-2017, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation.

Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success.

I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes.

The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap.

Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that.

I agree Danno. The Saints are having a fit trying to allocate any kind of resources.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-24-2017, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Hagan, I'm not so sure about that brother. See stats below:

Defensive Rank

• The average NFL defensive rank for an eventual Super Bowl champion is 6.8 (seventh).

• The top-ranked defense has REACHED the Super Bowl 11 times and is 8-3 in the Super Bowl.

Points Allowed

• The team allowing the fewest points during the season has REACHED the Super Bowl 18 times and is 13-5 in the Super Bowl.

Sacks

• 45 of the 47 Super Bowl champions have totaled at least 30 sacks in a season.
Source: THE NUMBERS BEHIND SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS

The 2017 Champs (Pats) ranked #1 in points allowed, 14th in takeaways and 8th in yards allowed. Defense ultimately matters most at this level.

I only wish I could like this twice.

SFIAH

shawnkytonk · 03-24-2017, 10:19 PM

I don't see any offensive player in the first round making an impact this year outside McCaffrey. We need an impact on D.

hagan714 · 03-24-2017, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season.

what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued.

This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with

DA has a huge task ahead of him

This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have.

year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again.

people actually believe we can purge and retool over night.

all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense

it makes no sense.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-24-2017, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season.

what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued.

This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with

DA has a huge task ahead of him

Hagan,

I think we've seen in the past that if the defense can just get to average that will propel the team forward. Some defensive 16th places last year:

3rd down percentage: 39.4% Saints were 28th at 43.3%
Points 23.6 Saints were 31st at 28.4
Takeaways: 22 Saints were 17th at 21

in some ways it's not that far off. Get the points down under 24 with small bumps on the 3rd downs and Takeaways is all the required to be competitive IMO.

This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have.

I'm in complete agreement here. The biggest problem in the secondary has been injuries. The solution is more capable players and not putting all the money into a single player.

year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again.

people actually believe we can purge and retool over night.

Well we're not in heading into year 2.5 with DA. Also for better or worse the IR bench will be cleared at least at the beginning of OTAs. Finally a lot of young guys got a lot of experience. All of these should point up instead of down.

all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense

I understand your frustration. But clearly the path to the next level is improvement on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not sure the primary motivation for moving Cooks was driven by defensive improvement. My belief (which of course can be completely off base) is that the Saints decided that Cooks wasn't going to be in the long term plans of the team and that it was best to get the most value for him before having to do the heavy investment in order of the roster bonus this month, the option year next year, then presumably having being stuck tagging him or letting him walk.

Not that I'd be unhappy getting a productive defensive player with that 32nd pick.

SFIAH

hagan714 · 03-25-2017, 05:41 AM

all i see is the saints are doomed to repeat the same old mistakes of the past once again.

I have one thing I hang my hat on and that is my faith in DA not to allow the saints to go down that road. Unlike so many of the DC before him, DA knows how to coach on the field with the players he has.

I do not expect a draft as heavy on defense as saints fans and the media scouts are thinking. RB TE and WR are pretty good this year. Finding a RT for the future will be hard.

If ROT is not addressed early we might as well skip them all together. This is one of the worse draft classes I have ever seen in a long time for OT. Load up on OT in UDFA like we did OG last year and praying to the gods we strike gold is crazy. We will go into next years off season with RT as the #1 need for this team. We need that player NOW. We did not address this glaring issue in FA this year. The Peat screw up or defensive needs should not keep us from addressing the issue. Zach goes down we are screwed. Zach retires next year we are screwed. We are kinda back into a corner now. Draft that player early now and have more to invest on defense in the 2018 FA.

We still have no replacement for Hightower.

Do not forget SP no longer has a toy for his offense. SP loves and needs a toy to make his offense work. SP offense needs that toy. SP is a TOY JUNKY and we all know he will spend a fortune on getting his fix.

Upgrade at 3rd down RB is needed. Below average play and/or sitting on IR year after year is not working. We have too many roster spots occupied with return specialist that have not gotten the job done. I see up to 3 roster spots that can be freed up with one addition. Spots that can be used to add players in other areas of needs. IE defense

TE and WR can be had through out the draft and I full expect the saints to dip into pool on draft day.

SP wants to get Drew to sign an extension he better make Drew happy and fill him with hope. Later round and/or playing it cute will not cut it.

I see a two to three year plan to get this defense to be able to hang in the top 20 despite injuries. It makes no sense to pass on offense players or make them a top priority in FA limiting the defensive additions in 2018. Welcome to year two of the rebuild. I do not see this defense in such dire need as most. I want to see what DA does with the players coming off IR, FA additions and the ones in the draft before I light my hair on fire and start running in circle screaming the sky is falling. I did not do that last year and I refuse to do it before this year starts

halloween 65 · 03-25-2017, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

all i see is the saints are doomed to repeat the same old mistakes of the past once again.

I have one thing I hang my hat on and that is my faith in DA not to allow the saints to go down that road. Unlike so many of the DC before him, DA knows how to coach on the field with the players he has.

I do not expect a draft as heavy on defense as saints fans and the media scouts are thinking. RB TE and WR are pretty good this year. Finding a RT for the future will be hard.

If ROT is not addressed early we might as well skip them all together. This is one of the worse draft classes I have ever seen in a long time for OT. Load up on OT in UDFA like we did OG last year and praying to the gods we strike gold is crazy. We will go into next years off season with RT as the #1 need for this team. We need that player NOW. We did not address this glaring issue in FA this year. The Peat screw up or defensive needs should not keep us from addressing the issue. Zach goes down we are screwed. Zach retires next year we are screwed. We are kinda back into a corner now. Draft that player early now and have more to invest on defense in the 2018 FA.

We still have no replacement for Hightower.

Do not forget SP no longer has a toy for his offense. SP loves and needs a toy to make his offense work. SP offense needs that toy. SP is a TOY JUNKY and we all know he will spend a fortune on getting his fix.

Upgrade at 3rd down RB is needed. Below average play and/or sitting on IR year after year is not working. We have too many roster spots occupied with return specialist that have not gotten the job done. I see up to 3 roster spots that can be freed up with one addition. Spots that can be used to add players in other areas of needs. IE defense

TE and WR can be had through out the draft and I full expect the saints to dip into pool on draft day.

SP wants to get Drew to sign an extension he better make Drew happy and fill him with hope. Later round and/or playing it cute will not cut it.

I see a two to three year plan to get this defense to be able to hang in the top 20 despite injuries. It makes no sense to pass on offense players or make them a top priority in FA limiting the defensive additions in 2018. Welcome to year two of the rebuild. I do not see this defense in such dire need as most. I want to see what DA does with the players coming off IR, FA additions and the ones in the draft before I light my hair on fire and start running in circle screaming the sky is falling. I did not do that last year and I refuse to do it before this year starts

Not that I disagree with you much, but for the life in me I don't get the love for Allen.
Gregg Williams and Sharper made this guy, without them he's nothing.
As a DC in Denver he did little there and as a HC failed miserably.
Not one stop has he proven to be"the man", he's been living off of Williams accomplishments and I really seen no team out there wanting him especially as their DC. I like this guy about as much as you liked Ryan but he's going to be just as bad. I don't believe he can get us to a 24th ranked D with Payton loading the smoking gun for him the way Payton has been doing this season and last season. I ask myself what a proven DC could do with the personel we have on the D and I come to the conclusion that it's going to be much better than what Allen will do. If Payton truely wanted to "win now" he should have gotten him a truely proven guy and let him take care of his D with staff included, but he chose to keep his puppet boy Allen, well he's here. I'm as tired as you about the D dropping the ball and now we're taking pieces on the O to fix this god awful D. I do agree we'll be lucky to see a wildcard and totally agree about it taking time to build one in which Allen has had the reins on for 2 1/2 years now and hasn't got it done.

SmashMouth · 03-25-2017, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Not that I disagree with you much, but for the life in me I don't get the love for Allen.
Gregg Williams and Sharper made this guy, without them he's nothing.
As a DC in Denver he did little there and as a HC failed miserably.
Not one stop has he proven to be"the man", he's been living off of Williams accomplishments and I really seen no team out there wanting him especially as their DC. I like this guy about as much as you liked Ryan but he's going to be just as bad. I don't believe he can get us to a 24th ranked D with Payton loading the smoking gun for him the way Payton has been doing this season and last season. I ask myself what a proven DC could do with the personel we have on the D and I come to the conclusion that it's going to be much better than what Allen will do. If Payton truely wanted to "win now" he should have gotten him a truely proven guy and let him take care of his D with staff included, but he chose to keep his puppet boy Allen, well he's here. I'm as tired as you about the D dropping the ball and now we're taking pieces on the O to fix this god awful D. I do agree we'll be lucky to see a wildcard and totally agree about it taking time to build one in which Allen has had the reins on for 2 1/2 years now and hasn't got it done.

You might be right. As a Saints fan, let's hope things work out.

03-24-2017, 07:42 PM	#11
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by Danno He's pretty good Sorry, had him confused with Matt Millen. Y'all have done everything but come right out and say it. Without the coaches, our players are gonna suck regardless of talent level. Hagan, I'm thinking a few more additions to our D and we're gonna do some good stuff this year with the new coaches we have. Now that being said, I'm not going to cry or chew on my computer if we take O.J. with our first and then spend some time on the D side of the ball with the next three or four. Sarik likes this.

03-24-2017, 07:46 PM	#12
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,267	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. We also lost the division to Carolina because of our offense in road games. Hagan is right. Yes, we need defense. But Brees showed in 2014 that without Colston in his prime, Cooks, and a attentive Graham(who teams easily shadowed), he wasn't that great. Oline maybe, but the oline's had the same performances against any pressuring defense. The offense didn't look all that great last year in terms of points against NYG, SD(turnovers won that game), KC, Seattle, Denver, Carolina, DETROIT, TBx2, Atlanta. So we were ranked top five. Big deal. The bottom line is the points don't match up. Also, we got Warford to replace Evans not the LG, which Warford is not. The FO didn't even consider Armstead's injury issues leaving the likes of Lelito(who is gone), Kelemete to man that position. It's like we are relying on Armstead to be completely healthy. Brees tends to throw a pick against every good defense he faces which is frustrating. Ted Ginn JR cannot replace Cooks. Are we really relying on the lightbulb coming on for Fleener? Nvm he can't block so he won't get all the snaps. MatthewT likes this.

03-24-2017, 08:25 PM	#13
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,487 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by Danno Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation. Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success. I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes. The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap. Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that. I agree Danno. The Saints are having a fit trying to allocate any kind of resources.

03-24-2017, 09:50 PM	#14
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by K Major Hagan, I'm not so sure about that brother. See stats below: Defensive Rank • The average NFL defensive rank for an eventual Super Bowl champion is 6.8 (seventh). • The top-ranked defense has REACHED the Super Bowl 11 times and is 8-3 in the Super Bowl. Points Allowed • The team allowing the fewest points during the season has REACHED the Super Bowl 18 times and is 13-5 in the Super Bowl. Sacks • 45 of the 47 Super Bowl champions have totaled at least 30 sacks in a season. Source: THE NUMBERS BEHIND SUPER BOWL CHAMPIONS The 2017 Champs (Pats) ranked #1 in points allowed, 14th in takeaways and 8th in yards allowed. Defense ultimately matters most at this level. I only wish I could like this twice. SFIAH turbo_dog likes this.

03-24-2017, 10:19 PM	#15
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 741	Re: Defense Defense Defense I don't see any offensive player in the first round making an impact this year outside McCaffrey. We need an impact on D.

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03-24-2017, 10:26 PM	#16
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season. what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued. This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with DA has a huge task ahead of him This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have. year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again. people actually believe we can purge and retool over night. all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense it makes no sense. halloween 65 likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

03-24-2017, 11:00 PM	#17
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,773	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by hagan714 did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season. what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued. This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with DA has a huge task ahead of him Hagan, I think we've seen in the past that if the defense can just get to average that will propel the team forward. Some defensive 16th places last year: 3rd down percentage: 39.4% Saints were 28th at 43.3% Points 23.6 Saints were 31st at 28.4 Takeaways: 22 Saints were 17th at 21 in some ways it's not that far off. Get the points down under 24 with small bumps on the 3rd downs and Takeaways is all the required to be competitive IMO. This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have. I'm in complete agreement here. The biggest problem in the secondary has been injuries. The solution is more capable players and not putting all the money into a single player. year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again. people actually believe we can purge and retool over night. Well we're not in heading into year 2.5 with DA. Also for better or worse the IR bench will be cleared at least at the beginning of OTAs. Finally a lot of young guys got a lot of experience. All of these should point up instead of down. all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense I understand your frustration. But clearly the path to the next level is improvement on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not sure the primary motivation for moving Cooks was driven by defensive improvement. My belief (which of course can be completely off base) is that the Saints decided that Cooks wasn't going to be in the long term plans of the team and that it was best to get the most value for him before having to do the heavy investment in order of the roster bonus this month, the option year next year, then presumably having being stuck tagging him or letting him walk. Not that I'd be unhappy getting a productive defensive player with that 32nd pick. SFIAH hagan714 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

03-25-2017, 05:41 AM	#18
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Defense Defense Defense all i see is the saints are doomed to repeat the same old mistakes of the past once again. I have one thing I hang my hat on and that is my faith in DA not to allow the saints to go down that road. Unlike so many of the DC before him, DA knows how to coach on the field with the players he has. I do not expect a draft as heavy on defense as saints fans and the media scouts are thinking. RB TE and WR are pretty good this year. Finding a RT for the future will be hard. If ROT is not addressed early we might as well skip them all together. This is one of the worse draft classes I have ever seen in a long time for OT. Load up on OT in UDFA like we did OG last year and praying to the gods we strike gold is crazy. We will go into next years off season with RT as the #1 need for this team. We need that player NOW. We did not address this glaring issue in FA this year. The Peat screw up or defensive needs should not keep us from addressing the issue. Zach goes down we are screwed. Zach retires next year we are screwed. We are kinda back into a corner now. Draft that player early now and have more to invest on defense in the 2018 FA. We still have no replacement for Hightower. Do not forget SP no longer has a toy for his offense. SP loves and needs a toy to make his offense work. SP offense needs that toy. SP is a TOY JUNKY and we all know he will spend a fortune on getting his fix. Upgrade at 3rd down RB is needed. Below average play and/or sitting on IR year after year is not working. We have too many roster spots occupied with return specialist that have not gotten the job done. I see up to 3 roster spots that can be freed up with one addition. Spots that can be used to add players in other areas of needs. IE defense TE and WR can be had through out the draft and I full expect the saints to dip into pool on draft day. SP wants to get Drew to sign an extension he better make Drew happy and fill him with hope. Later round and/or playing it cute will not cut it. I see a two to three year plan to get this defense to be able to hang in the top 20 despite injuries. It makes no sense to pass on offense players or make them a top priority in FA limiting the defensive additions in 2018. Welcome to year two of the rebuild. I do not see this defense in such dire need as most. I want to see what DA does with the players coming off IR, FA additions and the ones in the draft before I light my hair on fire and start running in circle screaming the sky is falling. I did not do that last year and I refuse to do it before this year starts
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins Last edited by hagan714; 03-25-2017 at 06:21 AM..

03-25-2017, 08:31 AM	#19
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by hagan714 all i see is the saints are doomed to repeat the same old mistakes of the past once again. I have one thing I hang my hat on and that is my faith in DA not to allow the saints to go down that road. Unlike so many of the DC before him, DA knows how to coach on the field with the players he has. I do not expect a draft as heavy on defense as saints fans and the media scouts are thinking. RB TE and WR are pretty good this year. Finding a RT for the future will be hard. If ROT is not addressed early we might as well skip them all together. This is one of the worse draft classes I have ever seen in a long time for OT. Load up on OT in UDFA like we did OG last year and praying to the gods we strike gold is crazy. We will go into next years off season with RT as the #1 need for this team. We need that player NOW. We did not address this glaring issue in FA this year. The Peat screw up or defensive needs should not keep us from addressing the issue. Zach goes down we are screwed. Zach retires next year we are screwed. We are kinda back into a corner now. Draft that player early now and have more to invest on defense in the 2018 FA. We still have no replacement for Hightower. Do not forget SP no longer has a toy for his offense. SP loves and needs a toy to make his offense work. SP offense needs that toy. SP is a TOY JUNKY and we all know he will spend a fortune on getting his fix. Upgrade at 3rd down RB is needed. Below average play and/or sitting on IR year after year is not working. We have too many roster spots occupied with return specialist that have not gotten the job done. I see up to 3 roster spots that can be freed up with one addition. Spots that can be used to add players in other areas of needs. IE defense TE and WR can be had through out the draft and I full expect the saints to dip into pool on draft day. SP wants to get Drew to sign an extension he better make Drew happy and fill him with hope. Later round and/or playing it cute will not cut it. I see a two to three year plan to get this defense to be able to hang in the top 20 despite injuries. It makes no sense to pass on offense players or make them a top priority in FA limiting the defensive additions in 2018. Welcome to year two of the rebuild. I do not see this defense in such dire need as most. I want to see what DA does with the players coming off IR, FA additions and the ones in the draft before I light my hair on fire and start running in circle screaming the sky is falling. I did not do that last year and I refuse to do it before this year starts Not that I disagree with you much, but for the life in me I don't get the love for Allen. Gregg Williams and Sharper made this guy, without them he's nothing. As a DC in Denver he did little there and as a HC failed miserably. Not one stop has he proven to be"the man", he's been living off of Williams accomplishments and I really seen no team out there wanting him especially as their DC. I like this guy about as much as you liked Ryan but he's going to be just as bad. I don't believe he can get us to a 24th ranked D with Payton loading the smoking gun for him the way Payton has been doing this season and last season. I ask myself what a proven DC could do with the personel we have on the D and I come to the conclusion that it's going to be much better than what Allen will do. If Payton truely wanted to "win now" he should have gotten him a truely proven guy and let him take care of his D with staff included, but he chose to keep his puppet boy Allen, well he's here. I'm as tired as you about the D dropping the ball and now we're taking pieces on the O to fix this god awful D. I do agree we'll be lucky to see a wildcard and totally agree about it taking time to build one in which Allen has had the reins on for 2 1/2 years now and hasn't got it done.

03-25-2017, 10:45 AM	#20
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by halloween 65 Not that I disagree with you much, but for the life in me I don't get the love for Allen. Gregg Williams and Sharper made this guy, without them he's nothing. As a DC in Denver he did little there and as a HC failed miserably. Not one stop has he proven to be"the man", he's been living off of Williams accomplishments and I really seen no team out there wanting him especially as their DC. I like this guy about as much as you liked Ryan but he's going to be just as bad. I don't believe he can get us to a 24th ranked D with Payton loading the smoking gun for him the way Payton has been doing this season and last season. I ask myself what a proven DC could do with the personel we have on the D and I come to the conclusion that it's going to be much better than what Allen will do. If Payton truely wanted to "win now" he should have gotten him a truely proven guy and let him take care of his D with staff included, but he chose to keep his puppet boy Allen, well he's here. I'm as tired as you about the D dropping the ball and now we're taking pieces on the O to fix this god awful D. I do agree we'll be lucky to see a wildcard and totally agree about it taking time to build one in which Allen has had the reins on for 2 1/2 years now and hasn't got it done. You might be right. As a Saints fan, let's hope things work out. halloween 65 likes this.

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