Defense Defense Defense

dizzle88 · 03-24-2017, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

LMAO you can draft all defense for the next two years and still not get there. You can spend all the cash in FA also. No defense is built in two or three years.

Maybe after Drew retires then we are in a totally different situation.

Offense is what we must not destroy. That is what got us into this mess in the first place right after the super bowl. Took a few years of raping the offense and some bad DCs to put us back at the bottom of the NFC South.

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

Danno · 03-24-2017, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation.

Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success.

I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes.

The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap.

Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that.

dizzle88 · 03-24-2017, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation.

Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success.

I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes.

The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap.

Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that.

That's why Rob Ryans D worked so well in year 1, we had players that fit his scheme

Vaccaro would play in the slot and match up against TE's
Junior and Cam could pin their ears back and attack
Jabari and Keenan Lewis could both lock down their guy in man coverage which meant we were able to blitz with more security and effectiveness.

Let's just hope Dennis Allen has a plan and it gets implemented well!

CheramieIII · 03-24-2017, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation.

Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success.

I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes.

The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap.

Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that.

I agree Danno. The Saints are having a fit trying to allocate any kind of resources.

WillSaints81 · 03-24-2017, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

We also lost the division to Carolina because of our offense in road games. Hagan is right. Yes, we need defense. But Brees showed in 2014 that without Colston in his prime, Cooks, and a attentive Graham(who teams easily shadowed), he wasn't that great. Oline maybe, but the oline's had the same performances against any pressuring defense.

The offense didn't look all that great last year in terms of points against NYG, SD(turnovers won that game), KC, Seattle, Denver, Carolina, DETROIT, TBx2, Atlanta.

So we were ranked top five. Big deal. The bottom line is the points don't match up.

Also, we got Warford to replace Evans not the LG, which Warford is not. The FO didn't even consider Armstead's injury issues leaving the likes of Lelito(who is gone), Kelemete to man that position. It's like we are relying on Armstead to be completely healthy.

Brees tends to throw a pick against every good defense he faces which is frustrating. Ted Ginn JR cannot replace Cooks. Are we really relying on the lightbulb coming on for Fleener? Nvm he can't block so he won't get all the snaps.

hagan714 · 03-24-2017, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible.

did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season.

what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued.

This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with

DA has a huge task ahead of him

This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have.

year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again.

people actually believe we can purge and retool over night.

all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense

it makes no sense.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 03-24-2017, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by hagan714

did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season.

what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued.

This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with

DA has a huge task ahead of him

Hagan,

I think we've seen in the past that if the defense can just get to average that will propel the team forward. Some defensive 16th places last year:

3rd down percentage: 39.4% Saints were 28th at 43.3%
Points 23.6 Saints were 31st at 28.4
Takeaways: 22 Saints were 17th at 21

in some ways it's not that far off. Get the points down under 24 with small bumps on the 3rd downs and Takeaways is all the required to be competitive IMO.

This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have.

I'm in complete agreement here. The biggest problem in the secondary has been injuries. The solution is more capable players and not putting all the money into a single player.

year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again.

people actually believe we can purge and retool over night.

Well we're not in heading into year 2.5 with DA. Also for better or worse the IR bench will be cleared at least at the beginning of OTAs. Finally a lot of young guys got a lot of experience. All of these should point up instead of down.

all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense

I understand your frustration. But clearly the path to the next level is improvement on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm not sure the primary motivation for moving Cooks was driven by defensive improvement. My belief (which of course can be completely off base) is that the Saints decided that Cooks wasn't going to be in the long term plans of the team and that it was best to get the most value for him before having to do the heavy investment in order of the roster bonus this month, the option year next year, then presumably having being stuck tagging him or letting him walk.

Not that I'd be unhappy getting a productive defensive player with that 32nd pick.

SFIAH

03-24-2017, 05:38 PM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,523	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by hagan714 LMAO you can draft all defense for the next two years and still not get there. You can spend all the cash in FA also. No defense is built in two or three years. Maybe after Drew retires then we are in a totally different situation. Offense is what we must not destroy. That is what got us into this mess in the first place right after the super bowl. Took a few years of raping the offense and some bad DCs to put us back at the bottom of the NFC South. We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. SaintFanInATLHELL, Danno, Beastmode and 1 others like this.

03-24-2017, 06:29 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,752	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation. Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success. I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes. The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap. Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that. dizzle88 and jlouhill like this.

03-24-2017, 06:40 PM	#3
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,523	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by Danno Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation. Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success. I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes. The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap. Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that. That's why Rob Ryans D worked so well in year 1, we had players that fit his scheme Vaccaro would play in the slot and match up against TE's Junior and Cam could pin their ears back and attack Jabari and Keenan Lewis could both lock down their guy in man coverage which meant we were able to blitz with more security and effectiveness. Let's just hope Dennis Allen has a plan and it gets implemented well!

03-24-2017, 07:25 PM	#4
CheramieIII Fan Since 1967 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nomad Posts: 7,496 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by Danno Dizz, I think today's NFL is all about fit and resource allocation. Combine just the right amount of high priced studs with the appropriate amount of role players on both sides of the ball and you have the recipe for success. I think most teams that fail are trying to put square pegs in round holes. The Patriots are notorious for placing square pegs in square holes, and round pegs in round holes. I know its easier said than done, but thats how you win today and stay under the cap. Pick a system and acquire players that fit that system. No one can argue with the Patriots success doing just that. I agree Danno. The Saints are having a fit trying to allocate any kind of resources.

03-24-2017, 06:46 PM	#5
WillSaints81 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,280	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. We also lost the division to Carolina because of our offense in road games. Hagan is right. Yes, we need defense. But Brees showed in 2014 that without Colston in his prime, Cooks, and a attentive Graham(who teams easily shadowed), he wasn't that great. Oline maybe, but the oline's had the same performances against any pressuring defense. The offense didn't look all that great last year in terms of points against NYG, SD(turnovers won that game), KC, Seattle, Denver, Carolina, DETROIT, TBx2, Atlanta. So we were ranked top five. Big deal. The bottom line is the points don't match up. Also, we got Warford to replace Evans not the LG, which Warford is not. The FO didn't even consider Armstead's injury issues leaving the likes of Lelito(who is gone), Kelemete to man that position. It's like we are relying on Armstead to be completely healthy. Brees tends to throw a pick against every good defense he faces which is frustrating. Ted Ginn JR cannot replace Cooks. Are we really relying on the lightbulb coming on for Fleener? Nvm he can't block so he won't get all the snaps. MatthewT likes this.

03-24-2017, 09:26 PM	#6
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by dizzle88 We went from the 32nd ranked D in 2012, to the 4th ranked D in 2013. It is very possible. did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season. what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued. This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with DA has a huge task ahead of him This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have. year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again. people actually believe we can purge and retool over night. all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense it makes no sense. halloween 65 likes this.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

03-24-2017, 10:00 PM	#7
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: Defense Defense Defense Originally Posted by hagan714 did well till the pats figured out what dingle berries was doing and then we went south the rest of the season. what does dingles do in the off season? dump players and brought in his own. the slide down the rankings continued. This defense is mess and a long way from getting the talent of that defense he started with DA has a huge task ahead of him Hagan, I think we've seen in the past that if the defense can just get to average that will propel the team forward. Some defensive 16th places last year: 3rd down percentage: 39.4% Saints were 28th at 43.3% Points 23.6 Saints were 31st at 28.4 Takeaways: 22 Saints were 17th at 21 in some ways it's not that far off. Get the points down under 24 with small bumps on the 3rd downs and Takeaways is all the required to be competitive IMO. This why I am against signing a big ticket FA ie CB. We need bodies to improve all away across the board the talent we have. I'm in complete agreement here. The biggest problem in the secondary has been injuries. The solution is more capable players and not putting all the money into a single player. year after year we have jumped from 34 to a 43 to a 34 and back to a 43 yet again. people actually believe we can purge and retool over night. Well we're not in heading into year 2.5 with DA. Also for better or worse the IR bench will be cleared at least at the beginning of OTAs. Finally a lot of young guys got a lot of experience. All of these should point up instead of down. all at the cost of the one thing that works. our offense I understand your frustration. But clearly the path to the next level is improvement on the defensive side of the ball. I'm not sure the primary motivation for moving Cooks was driven by defensive improvement. My belief (which of course can be completely off base) is that the Saints decided that Cooks wasn't going to be in the long term plans of the team and that it was best to get the most value for him before having to do the heavy investment in order of the roster bonus this month, the option year next year, then presumably having being stuck tagging him or letting him walk. Not that I'd be unhappy getting a productive defensive player with that 32nd pick. SFIAH hagan714 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

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