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Wide Reciever

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by spkb25 Precisely. Cooks has been open a lot as of late, and for potentiallybig gains, and that is certainly because of MT and AK, but then he is hit or miss. You can see how the offense ...

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Old 11-30-2019, 07:47 PM   #1
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
Precisely. Cooks has been open a lot as of late, and for potentiallybig gains, and that is certainly because of MT and AK, but then he is hit or miss.

You can see how the offense begs down because no one can get open
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:14 PM   #2
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
Well I'm speaking specifically about cooks in the falcons game in atlanta on thursday, probably should have been specific.

Yeah it is clear to everyone we need another WR and have even last season. People are not open. The problem will be amplified come playoffs. The level of play steps up in the playoffs. Can we continue to win with our defense playing lights out, sure, maybe, do we need another wr, obviously .
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:19 PM   #3
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read is.

As I've pointed out before a perfect example of that was last year when TQS caught the TD against Washington where Brees set the record. According to Brees, that route is never targeted in that play. I keep hearing the argument that if there was a better player in that spot, then that route would be targeted more. But it's not designed to be targeted.

Austin Carr is another example of this in the offense. Dude had nearly 200 snaps this season before going on IR. He was targeted like 5 times. If his job was to get open and catch balls, then why would Payton continue to roll out this lack of production for hundreds of snaps? Same can be said for TQS, Hogan, and Humprey when he was here.

Positioning, spacing, blocking, and knowing the purpose of each play of the offense is just as important as actual production. If TQS or Ginn pulls a safety to open up Cook or CGM, then that receiver has done their job on that play. The very fact that the staff has not gone out of their way to fill this position by draft, trade, or free agency means that the collection of receivers they have for that position are exactly who they want in that position.

And yet it seems that every day, those decisions are questioned. 10-2, in the playoffs, division champ, in full control of HFA, yet somehow that brain trust cannot see the obvious like the fans do.

Maybe it's just not so obvious?

SFIAH
1we are 10-2, good team with a giant mega sized hole at wr, and I hope we get some help soon, because we need it BAD
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Old 11-30-2019, 08:48 PM   #4
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL View Post
So exactly which is it "Cooks has been open a lot of late" or "no one can get open"?

I finally figured out that everyone is worried if for any reason CGM cannot continue the sustained production from the last 4 years. Production that is on the verge of record breaking this year. Despite the fact that motion, placement in the slot, and combination routes especially with Kamara have defeated all the bracket coverage every DC in the league has thrown in his direction FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS!.

I just keep trying to point out the flawed thinking that the lack of targets and lack of production is based on lack of separation or lack of ability. If CGM is the #1 read, the back is the #2 read, the TE is the #3 read and finally the #2 WR is the #4 read. If the #1, #2, or #3 read is available, then it doesn't matter who the #4 read...
SFIAH
This is not how offense works... progression in routs doesn’t go from one position group to another... it’s based on rout coverage and proximity to the primary rout, you don’t want your QB taking a long time to go through progression... usually the check down or RB rout is the last read.
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Old 11-30-2019, 05:43 PM   #5
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Re: Wide Reciever

I'll leave it here ...

Can anyone honestly say you're comfortable with the Saints chances if say the 49ers or Vikings can take away MT13 and our running game struggles against a stout front? How will the Saints move the ball then without a capable receiver who can catch and get reasonable separation?? Cook, Ginn and Tre have yet to deliver consistently.

This offense has performed well, however it would be better served with a competent #2 opposite CGM. He'd have even more opportunities without bracket coverage.


It is what it is ... I'm just a arm chair GM but I surely hope the Saints front office/ scouts are targeting a WR in the 2020 draft and not un drafted guys who will need year(s) to develop.
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:37 PM   #6
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
I'll leave it here ...

Can anyone honestly say you're comfortable with the Saints chances if say the 49ers or Vikings can take away MT13 and our running game struggles against a stout front? How will the Saints move the ball then without a capable receiver who can catch and get reasonable separation?? Cook, Ginn and Tre have yet to deliver consistently.

This offense has performed well, however it would be better served with a competent #2 opposite CGM. He'd have even more opportunities without bracket coverage.


It is what it is ... I'm just a arm chair GM but I surely hope the Saints front office/ scouts are targeting a WR in the 2020 draft and not un drafted guys who will need year(s) to develop.
Of course not. Exactly this
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Old 12-01-2019, 07:35 AM   #7
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
I'll leave it here ...

Can anyone honestly say you're comfortable with the Saints chances if say the 49ers or Vikings can take away MT13 and our running game struggles against a stout front? How will the Saints move the ball then without a capable receiver who can catch and get reasonable separation?? Cook, Ginn and Tre have yet to deliver consistently.

This offense has performed well, however it would be better served with a competent #2 opposite CGM. He'd have even more opportunities without bracket coverage.


It is what it is ... I'm just a arm chair GM but I surely hope the Saints front office/ scouts are targeting a WR in the 2020 draft and not un drafted guys who will need year(s) to develop.

Nailed It


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Old 12-04-2019, 04:06 PM   #8
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
I'll leave it here ...

Can anyone honestly say you're comfortable with the Saints chances if say the 49ers or Vikings can take away MT13 and our running game struggles against a stout front? How will the Saints move the ball then without a capable receiver who can catch and get reasonable separation?? Cook, Ginn and Tre have yet to deliver consistently.

This offense has performed well, however it would be better served with a competent #2 opposite CGM. He'd have even more opportunities without bracket coverage.


It is what it is ... I'm just a arm chair GM but I surely hope the Saints front office/ scouts are targeting a WR in the 2020 draft and not un drafted guys who will need year(s) to develop.
This! We fans tend to have short memories. It's almost like everyone forgot what happened the second time we played the rams last year in the NFC championship game (no I'm not talking about the blown call). I'm talking how they put a bigger corner on Michael Thomas and doubled him whenever they could to force other receivers to beat us. That's the only reason that game ended up being close. Drew was forced to hold on to the ball longer with CGM being bracketed and no one else could consistently get separation.

Another wideout isn't necessarily to try to balance out the offense and take targets away from CGM but rather when CGM isn't an option due to coverage Brees has another outlet to go to other than Kamara out the backfield.

If for whatever reason we didn't pick up another playmaker like Dez that can at least draw attention we better commit to running the ball like crazy with Kamara/Murray. If we at least do that we can get other guys open down the field off the play action.
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Old 12-04-2019, 04:09 PM   #9
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Re: Wide Reciever

Originally Posted by ikecomp View Post
This! We fans tend to have short memories. It's almost like everyone forgot what happened the second time we played the rams last year in the NFC championship game (no I'm not talking about the blown call). I'm talking how they put a bigger corner on Michael Thomas and doubled him whenever they could to force other receivers to beat us. That's the only reason that game ended up being close. Drew was forced to hold on to the ball longer with CGM being bracketed and no one else could consistently get separation.



Another wideout isn't necessarily to try to balance out the offense and take targets away from CGM but rather when CGM isn't an option due to coverage Brees has another outlet to go to other than Kamara out the backfield.



If for whatever reason we didn't pick up another playmaker like Dez that can at least draw attention we better commit to running the ball like crazy with Kamara/Murray. If we at least do that we can get other guys open down the field off the play action.


The majority on this topic agrees ,if we were the jury against Payton place we would slap him upside his head to get a grip/ wr


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Old 11-30-2019, 08:33 PM   #10
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Re: Wide Reciever

I agree, no point in throwing the ball to anyone else when one person catches damn near everything. Why do that, throw it to someone else? No.

Throw it to him every single time. So what. Nobody can stop it. Besides, look at all the drops from everyone else right in the numbers. NO.
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