Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ****

K Major · 10-28-2020, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by blackangold

How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team?

Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong?

B&G,

See post #10, last sentence.

It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched.

Lattimore - regression since rookie season.
Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage.
MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO.
PRob - see above
Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed.
Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO.
Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress.
PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride.
Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start

Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long?

SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

K Major · 10-27-2020, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by blackangold

CGJ
- regressing this year
- consistently getting beat by TEs
- getting beat by slot WRs
- allows free releases
- PI machine when the ball is in the air

Interesting take on a promising dawg but do you know why he's "regressing in year 2?

Why in the hell is he man on man with Robbie Anderson last week? Ceedy is a safety & his strength is making plays near the line as well as being allowed to roam the secondary.

How about poor scheme? Does that fall on Sean, Dennis Allen or Glenn?

Game saving tackle by Lattimore vs the Chargers and a game saving sack by Davenport vs Carolina show me the players are giving their best efforts but they aren’t being put in the best situations.

rezburna · 10-27-2020, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve.

I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion?

Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me.

The Dude · 10-28-2020, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me.

If it’s too complicated then isn’t it’s the coaches job to simplify things? Over complicated is a word that has been thrown around fairly consistently over DA’s tenure as DC. This is coming from players and fans so there must be some truth to it. Back when we didn’t have many talented players in the secondary they were forced to complicate things because our players skill sets were inferior to most other teams offenses. We had to rely on scheme more than physical ability. We now have above average talent all around our secondary. Is there any need for over complication anymore? More about matchups and less about trickery?
Or am I off base here?

Thirty3 · 10-27-2020, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat

Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve.

I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion?

listening to Allen and commentators it seems he has complicated the defense. imho simplify and let the guys play instinctively. Haven't you noticed the guys looking at each other after a play and shrugging - like - wtf where were you or I thought you had him.

mapcow · 10-27-2020, 09:50 AM

Saints secondary has sucked bigly since the great super bowl victory... started with that dude from Texas....and just got worse since.

TheOak · 11-01-2020, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by mapcow

Saints secondary has sucked bigly since the great super bowl victory... started with that dude from Texas....and just got worse since.

It sucked then, we were 26th in passing ans without Sharper's 9 interceptions we would have been much worse. He deserves as much credit for the success of that season as Drew

No player has more INTs since 2007.

K Major · 10-27-2020, 10:32 AM

If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year.

It's NOT the players. It's what they're being asked to do.

papz · 10-27-2020, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year.

It's NOT the players. It's what they're being asked to do.

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

rezburna · 10-27-2020, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by papz

The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays.

The shoulder tackles are definitely annoying.

10-27-2020, 11:13 AM	#2
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold CGJ - regressing this year - consistently getting beat by TEs - getting beat by slot WRs - allows free releases - PI machine when the ball is in the air Interesting take on a promising dawg but do you know why he's "regressing in year 2? Why in the hell is he man on man with Robbie Anderson last week? Ceedy is a safety & his strength is making plays near the line as well as being allowed to roam the secondary. How about poor scheme? Does that fall on Sean, Dennis Allen** or Glenn? Game saving tackle by Lattimore vs the Chargers and a game saving sack by Davenport vs Carolina show me the players are giving their best efforts but they aren’t being put in the best situations. Rugby Saint II and rezburna like this.

10-27-2020, 12:10 PM	#3
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat** Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve. I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion? Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me. WW_Who_Dat and K Major like this.
	"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael

10-28-2020, 12:43 PM	#4
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by rezburna** Seems like scheme to me. At his age, Jenkins is better playing close to the line of scrimmage like a LB’er. Blitzing...covering backs out of the backfield...spying the QB. Go Nickel. Take Anzalone off the field. Put Jenkins where Anzalone is. Drop CJ back at SS. Put Patrick Robinson in the slot. Go 2 man under with Lattimore trailing the best receiver. 2 man and cover 2 are the same shell, so mix that in too with Jenkins dropping back into the middle of the field instead of a linebacker. It’s overcomplicated if you ask me. If it’s too complicated then isn’t it’s the coaches job to simplify things? Over complicated is a word that has been thrown around fairly consistently over DA’s tenure as DC. This is coming from players and fans so there must be some truth to it. Back when we didn’t have many talented players in the secondary they were forced to complicate things because our players skill sets were inferior to most other teams offenses. We had to rely on scheme more than physical ability. We now have above average talent all around our secondary. Is there any need for over complication anymore? More about matchups and less about trickery? Or am I off base here?
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,055	"Where life had no value, death, sometimes, had its price. That is why the bounty killers appeared."

10-27-2020, 04:53 PM	#5
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by WW_Who_Dat** Rez I agree that our run defense is doing the job game in game out. What in your opinion is causing the problems in the secondary, is it the Safety play, Williams seems to be out of position most of the time and bites on dropping down to mid level out route coverage allowing the center of the field to be wide open. Malcom Jenkins makes some flash plays but he has been weak covering TE’s exactly what he was brought in to improve. I just don’t get all the broken coverages, DA dropping defensive linemen in to secondary coverages .... what is going on in your opinion? listening to Allen and commentators it seems he has complicated the defense. imho simplify and let the guys play instinctively. Haven't you noticed the guys looking at each other after a play and shrugging - like - wtf where were you or I thought you had him.
Thirty3 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 1,255

10-27-2020, 09:50 AM	#6
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like **** Saints secondary has sucked bigly since the great super bowl victory... started with that dude from Texas....and just got worse since.
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,818

10-28-2020, 01:13 PM	#1
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by blackangold** How many DCs are we going to go through only to see them leave and have success on another team? Our issues... like tackling and not getting PIs are fundamental mistakes made by players on the field. What specifically do you think Allen is doing wrong? B&G, See post #10, last sentence. It keeps happening year after year with this defense. No matter what players we have during that season, the results are the same. At some point the buck stops at Dennis Allen. From bad schemes to not adjusting during the game, we’ve said all of the same things before about him. Pro bowl players come here and become mediocre, 1st round draft picks regress. At this point if he hasn’t even benched anybody to at least set an example, Marcus should be benched. Lattimore - regression since rookie season. Williams - see above- has been in DA system 4 years now but still lost in coverage. MJ - avg player in NO, a start with the Eagles, immediate regression in NO. PRob - see above Jenoris - good corner but he's regressed. Eli - initially he was improvement after leaving NY but regressed in NO. Ken trash can Crawley - played out of his mind in 2017, only to regress. PJ Williams - he's a Six Flags roller coast ride. Devante Harris - TERRIBLE NFL player, but Allen thought he could start Do you think Bellichick, Tomlin, Harbaugh or Andy Reid would allow poor, repetitive behavior from player(s) this long? SIMPLIFY the defense & coach these guys up.

11-01-2020, 07:25 AM	#7
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,039	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by mapcow** Saints secondary has sucked bigly since the great super bowl victory... started with that dude from Texas....and just got worse since. It sucked then, we were 26th in passing ans without Sharper's 9 interceptions we would have been much worse. He deserves as much credit for the success of that season as Drew No player has more INTs since 2007. halloween 65 likes this.

10-27-2020, 10:32 AM	#8
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,738 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue*. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming* or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year. It's NOT the players. It's what they're being asked to do. jnormand and Rugby Saint II like this.

10-27-2020, 12:55 PM	#9
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,768	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by K Major If you're wondering why Jenkins was mediocre here then looked better in Philly to only return to look mediocre again. Or why all the talent (Latt/Janoris/CGJ) we have in the secondary isn't translating to an improved secondary. If you can't come up with an answer, you're focusing on the wrong unit. This is a coaching and scheme issue. The obvious answer is the answer. Talented players are underperforming or regressing since their rookie (Latt/Ceedy Deuce) year. It's NOT** the players. It's what they're being asked to do. The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays. Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-27-2020, 12:57 PM	#10
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,999	Re: Offense looks great even without star receivers, the Defense looks like ** Originally Posted by papz** The players shouldn't be absolved of poor play either. For instance every time I see one of those turds going for a highlight shoulder tackle, it makes my blood boil. It's not like they aren't taught to tackle correctly. It's not like they're taught to take horrendous angles. There's plenty of blame to go around from top to bottom. It's the coaches job to put them in position and the players job to make plays. The shoulder tackles are definitely annoying.

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