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It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by skymike Its crazy to talk about unloading Brees The odds of finding a trade partner for Brees is low anyway. The only team that seems like they are a QB away from a deep playoff run is ...

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Old 09-18-2017, 11:06 PM   #31
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by skymike View Post
Its crazy to talk about unloading Brees
The odds of finding a trade partner for Brees is low anyway. The only team that seems like they are a QB away from a deep playoff run is Denver. Brees is in the last year of his contract, so a bad team that needs a QB like the Jets is not going to trade for him when they know they will probably lose him in FA anyway the next offseason.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:07 AM   #32
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by NonieT View Post
Everyone had better be careful what they wish for.
yes because 7-9 is so much better than 5-11?
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:09 AM   #33
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by Kryptonite View Post
Would a "worser" (sp) team (one w/o Payton and Brees) be any "worse" than a currently "bad" team (one w/Payton and Brees)? Am I missing something?
Thank you, people who keep saying that are laughable. Be careful what you wish for you might go 6-10 instead of 7-9. This team has looked horrible in 2 games this season. What about the other 48 prior to this one? Same.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:13 AM   #34
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

I have no idea what Benson will do, but he definitely is or appears not to be in the frame of mind to do what needs doing. I am holding out for a 3 win season if we are going to miss the playoffs again. At least maybe we finally fire SP.

That said, please stop with the fire DA threads. Jesus H Christ...how many people have to be laid out to the alter for SP? We just remade our entire defensive coaching unit to which 90% or more on this board swore was the answer. It does not appear to have been the coaching...so who is left to fire? Who is the main culprit, the common link, the least common denom?

BTW- I remember asking, when people were gushing about the new coaches, if we failed again would people be quick to point out the issue wasn't coaching. Someone replied no, lol. I guess it is true.

Sean is the issue, repeat after me, Sean can no longer win and has lost the team.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:25 AM   #35
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by neugey View Post
The odds of finding a trade partner for Brees is low anyway. The only team that seems like they are a QB away from a deep playoff run is Denver. Brees is in the last year of his contract, so a bad team that needs a QB like the Jets is not going to trade for him when they know they will probably lose him in FA anyway the next offseason.
I live in Houston, so I know a little, not much about the Texans, but the Texans would would all give Brees their body parts to join this team, because they're one of about 20 or so teams that has everything else BUT a great QB.

I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.

It would be CRAZY to unload Drew Brees.

** Somewhere, on our board, there could be some millenial kid, playing with his phone, who doesnt know the name ARCHIE. Dont laugh. 60% of America cant name 3 branches of govt.

*** Bobby was actually pretty damn good, and tough as nails. Dont be hatin, fellow old guys. You were screamin for them to put him in, when we had Dave Wilson, so put a sock in it. And we all felt like we had a chance, when Bobby was in there. Did you feel like that with Richard Todd? Yeah, ok I thought Todd would do it for us too. nevermind. But he was 10X better than Stabler- so simma down now !


Last edited by skymike; 09-19-2017 at 06:42 AM..
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:46 AM   #36
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by skymike View Post
I live in Houston, so I know a little, not much about the Texans, but the Texans would would all give Brees their body parts to join this team, because they're one of about 20 or so teams that has everything else BUT a great QB.

I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.

It would be CRAZY to unload Drew Brees.

** Somewhere, on our board, there could be some millenial kid, playing with his phone, who doesnt know the name ARCHIE. Dont laugh. 60% of America cant name 3 branches of govt.

*** Bobby was actually pretty damn good, and tough as nails. Dont be hatin, fellow old guys. You were screamin for them to put him in, when we had Dave Wilson, so put a sock in it. And we all felt like we had a chance, when Bobby was in there. Did you feel like that with Richard Todd? Yeah, ok I thought Todd would do it for us too. nevermind. But he was 10X better than Stabler- so simma down now !
that would have been the best suited trading partner prior to Watson. I think they're dug in
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:48 AM   #37
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by spkb25 View Post
I have no idea what Benson will do, but he definitely is or appears not to be in the frame of mind to do what needs doing. I am holding out for a 3 win season if we are going to miss the playoffs again. At least maybe we finally fire SP.

That said, please stop with the fire DA threads. Jesus H Christ...how many people have to be laid out to the alter for SP? We just remade our entire defensive coaching unit to which 90% or more on this board swore was the answer. It does not appear to have been the coaching...so who is left to fire? Who is the main culprit, the common link, the least common denom?

BTW- I remember asking, when people were gushing about the new coaches, if we failed again would people be quick to point out the issue wasn't coaching. Someone replied no, lol. I guess it is true.

Sean is the issue, repeat after me, Sean can no longer win and has lost the team.
It was and is coaching. Some talent issues here and there, but mostly coaching. I liked the hiring of Mike Nolan, and liked bringing back Curtis Johnson. I don't know anything about the defensive line coach they brought in, so that one didn't move me one way or the other.

But I have never been an advocate of Dennis Allen as DC. I don't see anything schematically that is overwhelming, and I surely don't see any discipline. The discipline problem is team wide, which means the head coach isn't getting his message across. Why, I don't know... there clearly seems to be a disconnect, but who knows how that came to be. I have a bunch of theories, but there's no point in getting into that.

Offensively, we have gotten behind the times. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the NFL. Payton thinks he can do the same things he did a few years ago, but people adjust eventually. Great coaches adapt to changing times. Coaches with fancy schemes and no backup plan tend to fade out just like any other trendy thing in life. Remember "the greatest show on turf"? Those Rams offenses were like man landing on Mars; it was so advanced, and it just seemed like no one would ever stop that team. And yet, it was over relatively quickly, and Mike Martz moved on to a couple of different places, but his offense never succeeded again.

This seems to be the track Sean Payton is on. I don't know if he has a second wind in him, but right now it looks like he isn't the type of coach who is ever going to adapt to the ever changing league. I hope I'm wrong for his sake and ours, but if I happen to be right, I would rather this not drag on longer than it needs to.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:53 AM   #38
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by skymike View Post
I guess some of you are too young to remember what its like to have a great rest-of-the-team-even-a-great kicker, but at QB, have an Aaron Brooks or a Jim Everett or a Dave Wilson or some assorted Billy Joes.

Drew Brees'es dont grow on trees, people.

Even a guy named Bobby Hebert, (who was actually one of our 2** best pre-Brees QBs*** ) agrees with me.
I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:59 AM   #39
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by neugey View Post
I do remember those days. But I'd rather be a Dome Patrol than a finesse team with no defense. In any sport. You are always closer with great defense/pitching. Lots of close games. You may fall short of winning some big ones, but at least you made the other team earn it. No rebounds, no rings. Defense wins championships.
Very good point, Look at Houston, they make nearly every game close because they have a top 5 D. All they need is a franchise QB to take them over the edge.
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Old 09-19-2017, 07:59 AM   #40
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Re: It's time for the Saints to move on from Sean Payton and Drew Brees

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
It was and is coaching. Some talent issues here and there, but mostly coaching. I liked the hiring of Mike Nolan, and liked bringing back Curtis Johnson. I don't know anything about the defensive line coach they brought in, so that one didn't move me one way or the other.

But I have never been an advocate of Dennis Allen as DC. I don't see anything schematically that is overwhelming, and I surely don't see any discipline. The discipline problem is team wide, which means the head coach isn't getting his message across. Why, I don't know... there clearly seems to be a disconnect, but who knows how that came to be. I have a bunch of theories, but there's no point in getting into that.

Offensively, we have gotten behind the times. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the NFL. Payton thinks he can do the same things he did a few years ago, but people adjust eventually. Great coaches adapt to changing times. Coaches with fancy schemes and no backup plan tend to fade out just like any other trendy thing in life. Remember "the greatest show on turf"? Those Rams offenses were like man landing on Mars; it was so advanced, and it just seemed like no one would ever stop that team. And yet, it was over relatively quickly, and Mike Martz moved on to a couple of different places, but his offense never succeeded again.

This seems to be the track Sean Payton is on. I don't know if he has a second wind in him, but right now it looks like he isn't the type of coach who is ever going to adapt to the ever changing league. I hope I'm wrong for his sake and ours, but if I happen to be right, I would rather this not drag on longer than it needs to.
I agree and I too liked the Curtis signing again and I was glad we let go Vitt. I guess the point I am trying to make is that at some point we cannot keep firing everyone else. Spags went on to be successful again in NY. RR was a terrible signing then and now. DA I had hopes for, but at some point we just can't keep blaming everyone except SP (And I recognize you're not doing that). You're right, it has the feel he has lost the team. When you keep churning the same product year in and year out the HC has to be to blame. How many years does it take to rebuild to become at the very least competitive. We look the same as we have for what is now the fourth year. Matter of fact we look worse this year than last. At least so far. I am sure we will string together some wins and old 7-9 will get us back to his sweet spot and next year it will be cycle and repeat.

I'd rather see what someone else can do. 7-9 and no playoffs is no worse than 3-13 and no playoffs.
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