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jeanpierre 05-01-2021 09:51 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 

https://static.www.nfl.com/t_thumb_s...clubs/logos/NO
New Orleans Saints

Seventh-round selection Kawaan Baker (No. 255) was the Saints' first receiver drafted since 2018 and only the third since 2015! Virtually passing on the position in two straight deep receiver classes reflects Sean Payton's confidence he can scheme up yards out of anyone and puts more pressure than ever on Michael Thomas and Alvin Kamara to carry the offense. This is what can happen when your team philosophy is to trade up in the draft early and often.

spkb25 05-02-2021 12:55 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Youre going to be awful this year. And the future looks horrible. The last 4 drafts have now been blundered by sean and company. Whatever ireland brought the first time around hasnt been seen since. Seans back to garbage in garbage out. Davenport is a dud. Remember the Leonard pick a few years back where all the analyst daid we reached harddddd. Remember that guido fellow telling you how you were negative and didnt know anything ? How'd that work out? Surely he is a starter bow or at least a solid backup?

Your team has little talent left, an aging o and d line. No linebackers.

Good luck, youre going to need it.

jeanpierre 05-02-2021 02:02 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
PFF | 2021 NFL Draft grades for all 32 teams

NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

R1 (28): EDGE Payton Turner, Houston
R2 (60): LB Pete Werner, Ohio State
R3 (76): CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford
R4 (133): QB Ian Book, Notre Dame
R6 (206): OT Landon Young, Kentucky
R7 (255): WR Kawaan Baker, South Alabama

Day 1: Turner might be the biggest surprise first-round pick thus far. He broke out on a small sample in 2020 against subpar competition with a 90.0 pass-rush grade across four starts but has a coveted physical profile. He’s 6-foot-6 and 270 pounds with 35-inch arms and plays a physical game. Turner is also a versatile piece with impressive bend for his size. It’s a risky bet that could pay off big for the Saints, but there were other directions they should have gone here.

Day 2: Werner possesses a throwback linebacker’s skill set, with a 240-plus-pound frame that can come downhill and lay the wood on whoever he hits. His struggles come with elite athleticism, quickness and fluidity of movement. The word “solid” was made for a player like Werner — the highest PFF grade he ever earned over a single season was just 70.8.

The Saints finally address their biggest need entering the 2021 NFL Draft, taking Stanford cornerback Paulson Adebo. The loss of Janoris Jenkins and the uncertain future of Marshon Lattimore made it a necessity for New Orleans to address the cornerback position at some point in this draft. Adebo’s blend of length and ball skills (24 pass breakups in two seasons) seems best suited for a zone-heavy scheme, making this an interesting fit with the Saints.

Day 3: We had Book down as a seventh-rounder/UDFA — he was the fifth-best QB option available on the PFF draft board. He’s a gamer who made something out of nothing for the Fighting Irish at times, but the arm talent just isn’t there. He was one who had to see it to throw it. His play style got by at the collegiate level, but it’s not going to fly in the NFL.

Draft Grade: C

AsylumGuido 05-02-2021 05:15 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920018)
PFF | 2021 NFL Draft grades for all 32 teams

NEW ORLEANS SAINTS

R1 (28): EDGE Payton Turner, Houston
R2 (60): LB Pete Werner, Ohio State
R3 (76): CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford
R4 (133): QB Ian Book, Notre Dame
R6 (206): OT Landon Young, Kentucky
R7 (255): WR Kawaan Baker, South Alabama

Day 1: Turner might be the biggest surprise first-round pick thus far. He broke out on a small sample in 2020 against subpar competition with a 90.0 pass-rush grade across four starts but has a coveted physical profile. He’s 6-foot-6 and 270 pounds with 35-inch arms and plays a physical game. Turner is also a versatile piece with impressive bend for his size. It’s a risky bet that could pay off big for the Saints, but there were other directions they should have gone here.

Day 2: Werner possesses a throwback linebacker’s skill set, with a 240-plus-pound frame that can come downhill and lay the wood on whoever he hits. His struggles come with elite athleticism, quickness and fluidity of movement. The word “solid” was made for a player like Werner — the highest PFF grade he ever earned over a single season was just 70.8.

The Saints finally address their biggest need entering the 2021 NFL Draft, taking Stanford cornerback Paulson Adebo. The loss of Janoris Jenkins and the uncertain future of Marshon Lattimore made it a necessity for New Orleans to address the cornerback position at some point in this draft. Adebo’s blend of length and ball skills (24 pass breakups in two seasons) seems best suited for a zone-heavy scheme, making this an interesting fit with the Saints.

Day 3: We had Book down as a seventh-rounder/UDFA — he was the fifth-best QB option available on the PFF draft board. He’s a gamer who made something out of nothing for the Fighting Irish at times, but the arm talent just isn’t there. He was one who had to see it to throw it. His play style got by at the collegiate level, but it’s not going to fly in the NFL.

Draft Grade: C
If the Saints targeted Turner they had to take him then. He would not have been there at pick 60. Why take some other player that they have determined is not as desired because of someone else's arbitrary rankings? This is what is so stupid about trying to grade drafts. Grade it three years from now if you wish, but doing it right away is meaningless when based upon the graders own rankings and need determinations which are usually FAR different than that of the ones doing the REAL, informed drafting.

:dunce:

jeanpierre 05-03-2021 06:07 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920028)
If the Saints targeted Turner they had to take him then. He would not have been there at pick 60. Why take some other player that they have determined is not as desired because of someone else's arbitrary rankings? This is what is so stupid about trying to grade drafts. Grade it three years from now if you wish, but doing it right away is meaningless when based upon the graders own rankings and need determinations which are usually FAR different than that of the ones doing the REAL, informed drafting.

:dunce:
Conversely the same argument could also be made that in light of many of Sean Payton's draft blunders that he ranks players in an arbitrary manner...

The general consensus is to that effect...

He's admitted in several post draft interviews that he has a type of player for certain positions...

Perhaps he should consider his types and after this most recent draft performance, reevaluating his process of taking over the draft...

AsylumGuido 05-03-2021 09:41 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 920062)
Conversely the same argument could also be made that in light of many of Sean Payton's draft blunders that he ranks players in an arbitrary manner...

The general consensus is to that effect...

He's admitted in several post draft interviews that he has a type of player for certain positions...

Perhaps he should consider his types and after this most recent draft performance, reevaluating his process of taking over the draft...
I don't see the draft blunders. You call them blunders because they do not meet your expectations. The Mel McShays of the world grade a draft on their expectations, not on what the individual team feel about the prospects. That's their opinion. Just like yours is yours. It doesn't make it right. You may like a certain player that they have completely removed from their board for one reason or another. All teams work that way.

As for the draft performance, I loved it. It appears that they got the players that they really wanted. They were clearly excited by every pick and moved on them quickly.

SmashMouth 05-04-2021 05:53 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 

vpheughan 05-04-2021 06:39 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920083)
I don't see the draft blunders. You call them blunders because they do not meet your expectations. The Mel McShays of the world grade a draft on their expectations, not on what the individual team feel about the prospects. That's their opinion. Just like yours is yours. It doesn't make it right. You may like a certain player that they have completely removed from their board for one reason or another. All teams work that way.

As for the draft performance, I loved it. It appears that they got the players that they really wanted. They were clearly excited by every pick and moved on them quickly.
Don't forget "HIS WAY IS THE RIGHT WAY!!!!!" HE WAS GIVEN SAGE ADVICE FROM ARCHIE HISSELF!!!"

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 08:08 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920083)
I don't see the draft blunders. You call them blunders because they do not meet your expectations. The Mel McShays of the world grade a draft on their expectations, not on what the individual team feel about the prospects. That's their opinion. Just like yours is yours. It doesn't make it right. You may like a certain player that they have completely removed from their board for one reason or another. All teams work that way.

As for the draft performance, I loved it. It appears that they got the players that they really wanted. They were clearly excited by every pick and moved on them quickly.
Do you honestly not see any draft blunders they have made in the past? You realize that’s YOUR opinion too, right?

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 09:44 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920141)
Do you honestly not see any draft blunders they have made in the past? You realize that’s YOUR opinion too, right?
Nope. Nothing that I would call a blunder. They've had picks that didn't work out. That's just part of the draft process. Now those two times that Minnesota missed getting their picks in on time ... that's what I call a blunder. The Saints may have made picks that some fans and pundits have disagreed with, but to me those are definitely not blunders. As Charlie Weis was saying on NFL Radio about twenty minutes ago, teams don't care in the least about what fans and so called experts have to say about who they draft or when they draft them, nor should they. I couldn't agree more.

So, if some fans have a difference of opinion about when or what players were drafted, then fine. That's their right. It however does not make it a "blunder" on the part of the people that are making the picks based upon FAR, FAR, FAR more insight than the detractors.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 09:56 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920145)
Nope. Nothing that I would call a blunder. They've had picks that didn't work out. That's just part of the draft process. Now those two times that Minnesota missed getting their picks in on time ... that's what I call a blunder. The Saints may have made picks that some fans and pundits have disagreed with, but to me those are definitely not blunders. As Charlie Weis was saying on NFL Radio about twenty minutes ago, teams don't care in the least about what fans and so called experts have to say about who they draft or when they draft them, nor should they. I couldn't agree more.

So, if some fans have a difference of opinion about when or what players were drafted, then fine. That's their right. It however does not make it a "blunder" on the part of the people that are making the picks based upon FAR, FAR, FAR more insight than the detractors.
One of the silliest things I’ve ever read regarding football.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 10:16 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920146)
One of the silliest things I’ve ever read regarding football.
What's that? Can you clarify? Concerning Weis' comment? That's a pretty common perspective by those that know what they are doing and do it for a living.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 10:51 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920147)
What's that? Can you clarify? Concerning Weis' comment? That's a pretty common perspective by those that know what they are doing and do it for a living.
That you don’t consider spending, say a second round pick on a reach CB that other “experts” had rated much lower who produced a grand total of one tackle in his NFL career a blunder/bust/bungle. That’s not just an “Oh well, not every pick hits!” moment. That’s a major screw up. You completely absolve the saints draft process of any responsibility with that attitude. Silliest thing I’ve ever heard re football.

It also amuses me that you are listening to an “expert “ in Weis when he says to not listen to the experts. No irony there 🙄.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 11:15 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920149)
That you don’t consider spending, say a second round pick on a reach CB that other “experts” had rated much lower who produced a grand total of one tackle in his NFL career a blunder/bust/bungle. That’s not just an “Oh well, not every pick hits!” moment. That’s a major screw up. You completely absolve the saints draft process of any responsibility with that attitude. Silliest thing I’ve ever heard re football.

It also amuses me that you are listening to an “expert “ in Weis when he says to not listen to the experts. No irony there 🙄.
Weis is an ex-coach. Big difference from the so-called experts that never spent a minute in the front office in real decision making. Former coaches and GM's consistently downplay the whole draft pre and post evaluations in the media and fanbase.

And, no, I don't call what you mentioned a blunder. It's simply a pick that didn't work out. It happens all the time for one reason or another. Welcome to the real world of NFL football, my friend. You take the bad with the good and move on. Or, you can dwell on the past b!tchin' and moanin' about isolated things that no one else that matters cares in the least about. To me THAT is silly. Your choice.

;)

:bng:

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 11:32 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920150)
Weis is an ex-coach. Big difference from the so-called experts that never spent a minute in the front office in real decision making. Former coaches and GM's consistently downplay the whole draft pre and post evaluations in the media and fanbase.

And, no, I don't call what you mentioned a blunder. It's simply a pick that didn't work out. It happens all the time for one reason or another. Welcome to the real world of NFL football, my friend. You take the bad with the good and move on. Or, you can dwell on the past b!tchin' and moanin' about isolated things that no one else that matters cares in the least about. To me THAT is silly. Your choice.

;)

:bng:
What you call *****ing and moaning I call reflection and evaluation. Something that all intelligent people, including those in the Saints front office, should do frequently. I know my opinions don’t matter to the front office. But it is part of my enjoyment in watching football and following the Saints.

One could apply your “logic” to investing. Obviously not every stock/bond/property etc. goes well. Do you just blow off the ones that didn’t as “Oh Well, that’s real world” or do you study and try to figure out why it didn’t work out to avoid repeating the same mistakes? Do you research an investment beforehand through “experts” that have failed before, or do you pull a Weis and say “to hell what anyone else says, here is where I’m going to put my money”? I doubt you do, but it would be equally as silly as what the Saints did with Baptiste and likely produce the same tragic results.

You put the Saints draft procedure on a bullet-proof pedestal and refuse to find any fault living in denial. That is of course your right to do. But that is what I find ridiculous.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 11:56 AM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920151)
What you call *****ing and moaning I call reflection and evaluation. Something that all intelligent people, including those in the Saints front office, should do frequently. I know my opinions don’t matter to the front office. But it is part of my enjoyment in watching football and following the Saints.

One could apply your “logic” to investing. Obviously not every stock/bond/property etc. goes well. Do you just blow off the ones that didn’t as “Oh Well, that’s real world” or do you study and try to figure out why it didn’t work out to avoid repeating the same mistakes? Do you research an investment beforehand through “experts” that have failed before, or do you pull a Weis and say “to hell what anyone else says, here is where I’m going to put my money”? I doubt you do, but it would be equally as silly as what the Saints did with Baptiste and likely produce the same tragic results.

You put the Saints draft procedure on a bullet-proof pedestal and refuse to find any fault living in denial. That is of course your right to do. But that is what I find ridiculous.
I'm sure the Saints evaluated how Baptiste (and others) turned out and took note and moved on. They all undoubtedly did far more reflection and evaluation than any fan has ever dreamed of doing. But what the Saints, and every other team, does not do is give a flying rat's arse about what any fan or so-called expert has to say. Nor should they.

So those few fans can just continue to stress over some guy named Baptiste while the real world of football moves on.

What I find comical is that some fans see their reflections and evaluations as having some sort of actual value ... much like those stocks you referenced. In what material manner does their reflections and evaluations of those football moves add any value? Personal pleasure of some sort, I get, I imagine. But beyond that? Nada.

:D

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 12:44 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920152)
I'm sure the Saints evaluated how Baptiste (and others) turned out and took note and moved on. They all undoubtedly did far more reflection and evaluation than any fan has ever dreamed of doing. But what the Saints, and every other team, does not do is give a flying rat's arse about what any fan or so-called expert has to say. Nor should they.

So those few fans can just continue to stress over some guy named Baptiste while the real world of football moves on.

What I find comical is that some fans see their reflections and evaluations as having some sort of actual value ... much like those stocks you referenced. In what material manner does their reflections and evaluations of those football moves add any value? Personal pleasure of some sort, I get, I imagine. But beyond that? Nada.

:D
You are delusional if you believe I think my opinion matters to the Saints. You’ve brought that up a couple of times now with no basis in fact or evidence to support that claim. I’ve never expressed that belief and it is yet another thing you are wrong about. You are the one who has Demonstrated high praise for their own opinions.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 01:03 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920152)
I'm sure the Saints evaluated how Baptiste (and others) turned out and took note and moved on. They all undoubtedly did far more reflection and evaluation than any fan has ever dreamed of doing.
Why would they take note and evaluate the Baptiste pick? According to you they didn’t make any mistake and the pick shouldn’t be scrutinized because these things happen. Forget and move on! No need to evaluate that descision...or are you crawfishing now and saying the pick WAS bungled?

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 01:07 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920154)
You are delusional if you believe I think my opinion matters to the Saints. You’ve brought that up a couple of times now with no basis in fact or evidence to support that claim. I’ve never expressed that belief and it is yet another thing you are wrong about. You are the one who has Demonstrated high praise for their own opinions.
I figured you knew better than believing that your reflecting and evaluating are of any interest to the Saints. Whew! That restores my faith. Then what is the goal of your reflection and evaluation? You eluded to it being something that would value the Saints, but I'm sure you'll agree that they already do far more of that than any of us. Right? How is a fan's dwelling on an individual draft choice from seven years ago relevant today? I'm curious.

:confused:

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 01:15 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920155)
Why would they take note and evaluate the Baptiste pick? According to you they didn’t make any mistake and the pick shouldn’t be scrutinized because these things happen. Forget and move on! No need to evaluate that descision...or are you crawfishing now and saying the pick WAS bungled?
Nope. LOL! Not at all. At no point have I ever said they never make picks in the draft that don't work out. I've said that is the nature of the draft. I'm sure they reflect upon and evaluate every pick, whether they work out or not. It's what professionals do. That doesn't mean they bungled anything or blundered.

If you split a pair of aces and two deuces are turned have you bungled the hand or blundered? Nope. Sometimes things just don't work out.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 01:20 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920156)
I figured you knew better than believing that your reflecting and evaluating are of any interest to the Saints. Whew! That restores my faith. Then what is the goal of your reflection and evaluation? You eluded to it being something that would value the Saints, but I'm sure you'll agree that they already do far more of that than any of us. Right? How is a fan's dwelling on an individual draft choice from seven years ago relevant today? I'm curious.

:confused:
How is you talking about you listening to your son play music in the past relevant today? It’s an interesting subject to you. That’s why it is discussed by some. It’s relevant to the subject of this Website and specifically this thread; which is about the Saints draft. That invites comparisons, (good and bad) to drafts in the past.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 01:28 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920160)
How is you talking about you listening to your son play music in the past relevant today? It’s an interesting subject to you. That’s why it is discussed by some. It’s relevant to the subject of this Website and specifically this thread; which is about the Saints draft. That invites comparisons, (good and bad) to drafts in the past.
I have no issue with the discussion. That's what we are doing in case you missed it. :D I'm just questioning the labeling as blunders and explaining my opinion on why I do not see picks that didn't work out as blunders, but simply as picks that didn't work out. I even pointed out what I WOULD label as a draft blunder. You said the Saints need to reflect and evaluate, and I pointed out that they most certainly do already. Do you not agree? But after that reflection and evaluation I'm sure they move on instead of dwelling on the ones that didn't work.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 01:42 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920161)
I have no issue with the discussion. That's what we are doing in case you missed it. :D I'm just questioning the labeling as blunders and explaining my opinion on why I do not see picks that didn't work out as blunders, but simply as picks that didn't work out. I even pointed out what I WOULD label as a draft blunder. You said the Saints need to reflect and evaluate, and I pointed out that they most certainly do already. Do you not agree? But after that reflection and evaluation I'm sure they move on instead of dwelling on the ones that didn't work.
I’m not sure (I could be wrong of course) that they do, or are capable of, efficiently self-reflecting their draft process. Case in point, you will NEVER convince me that they have efficiently evaluated, drafted, developed the LB position AND they haven’t evaluated their own prioritization of the position and their lack of success in doing so and cost of failure.

Boiling that down, they should have done much better at LB and they haven’t gotten any better in the entire time under Payton. I believe more success there, and a few Vernon Davis type plays don’t happen in the playoffs. So...No, I’m not sure they review their draft mistakes enough. I think Payton has an arrogance about him that makes him think he knows what he’s doing and unwilling to accept advice and criticism. But hell, I’ve never met the man. This is just my opinion.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 01:51 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920163)
I’m not sure (I could be wrong of course) that they do, or are capable of, efficiently self-reflecting their draft process. Case in point, you will NEVER convince me that they have efficiently evaluated, drafted, developed the LB position AND they haven’t evaluated their own prioritization of the position and their lack of success in doing so and cost of failure.

Boiling that down, they should have done much better at LB and they haven’t gotten any better in the entire time under Payton. I believe more success there, and a few Vernon Davis type plays don’t happen in the playoffs. So...No, I’m not sure they review their draft mistakes enough.
I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 02:01 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920164)
I agree that they really haven't concentrated to heavily on building and maintaining the LB via the draft. That's no blunder, however, it is just their way of operating. They place more value, obviously, on building other areas via the draft. They have shown they can address the LB position quite decently via free agency, however. Vilma, Lofton, and Davis are some shining examples, as are Fujita and Kwan. Maybe Werner will break that mold.
And that’s where I say their process in that area is a blunder. And reaching for Baptiste in the second round instead of someone else was a blunder. So was spending two top 30 draft picks for the Production you’ve gotten from Davenport so far. That’s how I see it. If you want to call them something else go ahead.

Now someone else is going to accuse me of beating a dead horse and you are going to say let it go when all I’ve done is express my opinions about what they’ve done wrong and tried to answer your question about why it matters to me.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 02:06 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department.

Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think?

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 02:30 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920166)
Doing a little thinking about your doubts that the Saints do any self-evaluation when it comes to the draft reminded me that following the season that followed the drafting of Baptiste (2014) the Saints fired director of college scouting, Rick Reiprish, and replaced him with none other than Jeff Ireland on January 20, 2015. Ireland completely overturned the college scouting department.

Without self-evaluation this would not have taken place. Also, given the entire department responsible for evaluating Baptiste was replaced it pretty much renders any current relevance meaningless, wouldn't you think?
Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 02:42 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920168)
Possibly. But it’s still Payton/Loomis even if evaluation staff changes. If no impactful LBs are developed after this last two year's Draft classes, then no. They’ve just put in guys that reinforce their opinions.
Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

PlayerPosOff NumPctDef NumPctST NumPct 
Demario DavisLB00%103298.66%61.32%Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon AlexanderLB00%35033.46%4.88%Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex AnzaloneLB00%52550.19%18039.56%Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack BaunLB00%827.84%24754.29%Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig RobertsonLB00%232.20%36079.12%Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden EllissLB00%5.48%27660.66%Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase HansenLB00%1.10%245.27%Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew DowellLB00%00%112.42%Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 03:10 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920169)
Dennis Allen's defensive scheme is clearly DL and DB centric. Here are the 2020 LB snap counts:

PlayerPosOff NumPctDef NumPctST NumPct 
Demario DavisLB00%103298.66%61.32%Demario Davis 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kwon AlexanderLB00%35033.46%4.88%Kwon Alexander 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Alex AnzaloneLB00%52550.19%18039.56%Alex Anzalone 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Zack BaunLB00%827.84%24754.29%Zack Baun 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Craig RobertsonLB00%232.20%36079.12%Craig Robertson 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Kaden EllissLB00%5.48%27660.66%Kaden Elliss 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Chase HansenLB00%1.10%245.27%Chase Hansen 2020 game-by-game snap counts
Andrew DowellLB00%00%112.42%Andrew Dowell 2020 game-by-game snap counts

Davis was in on 98.66% of defensive snap counts. All of the other LB's combined weren't in on that many. That means they averaged less than two LB's on the field for the season on defensive snaps.

The defense clearly isn't designed for the LB to be that impactful. That isn't because of any draft success or lack thereof. It is based upon scheme.
And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 03:14 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920175)
And that forgives them for their poor LB record? The only way they have had any competent LBs was via trade/FA. I see that as a consistent weakness. Maybe if they’d expended some draft resources there they‘d have gotten another title. Maybe if they’d had decent LBs then the scheme would have favored more 4-3 sets. Maybe I’m just not going to blindly believe they did the right thing?
Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

:p :D

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 03:41 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920176)
Nope. You'll just blindly think all they do is blunder.

:p :D
At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 03:44 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920178)
At Drafting LB position, yes...until they show otherwise. And it’s not blindly, it’s quite obviously based on performance if you’d open your eyes and mind.
List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.

st thomas 05-04-2021 04:49 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Stephon Anthony for dammed sure, Boston! Don’t mean to but in


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AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 04:49 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Here's a little help, Boston. Every LB drafted under the Ireland regime.

Note that 2015 was a transition year between college scouting staffs. Ireland and staff's first full scouting season was 2016.

 Misc   PassingRushingReceiving   
YearRndPlayerPickPosToAP1PBStCarAVG
20212Pete Werner60LB 000  
20203Zack Baun74LB2020000215
20197Kaden Elliss244LB2020000118
20173Alex Anzalone76LB20200001138
20173Trey Hendrickson103OLB20200011345
20151Stephone Anthony31ILB20190011062
20152Hau'oli Kikaha44OLB2017001527
20155Davis Tull148OLB 000  

st thomas 05-04-2021 04:51 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
That’s plenty of blunders enough on that list


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AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 04:51 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st thomas (Post 920183)
Stephon Anthony for dammed sure, Boston! Don’t mean to but in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
See the new post, ST. Anthony wasn't truly an Ireland product. It was not a success, but regardless, it wasn't a "blunder". It was a miss though, definitely.

AsylumGuido 05-04-2021 04:52 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st thomas (Post 920185)
That’s plenty of blunders enough on that list


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Once again, 2015 was based upon a scouting staff fired in January and a totally new staff having to scout on short notice.

Boston Saint 05-04-2021 06:09 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920179)
List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.
List all the LB successes.

dizzle88 05-04-2021 06:28 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boston Saint (Post 920195)
List all the LB successes.
This team will never have a successful LB drafted if they continue to change their positions.

Zach Baun is one that worries me, spent his collegiate career rushing the passer and pretty sure he broke some college records.

SP - I know, let's put him at inside LB!!!

MarchingOn 05-04-2021 06:58 PM
Re: 2021 NFL Draft: New Orleans Saints
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 920179)
List all of their LB drafting blunders. I'm curious as to what you see as blunders. And keep it to the new college regime so it's relevant.
Khairi Fortt in the 4th #126 in the infamous 2014 Draft. We said, who?

Stephone Anthony in the 1st #31, 2015.
(Should've taken Eric Kendricks but everyone thought he was too small. Still starting and excelling (just like his brother--and that was a clue) w/ the Vikes. 2019 Pro Bowl)

Even worse: Kikaha in the 2nd #44, 2015.

Even worse, Davis Tull in the 4th #148, 2015.
Enough said. Was the scouting team fired after 2014 or 2015, I forget.

Not a "blunder", but a disappointment: Anzalone in the 3rd #76, 2017.
So "athletic" we let him go FA after sitting him when we got Kwon Alexander. I hated his play in the Sr Bowl. Did the FO watch?

Another disappointment: Martez Wilson in the 3rd #72 (kinda hi to miss), 2011. Should've never started but since he did, not a blunder.

These fit the our draft formula: fast, big enough, and athletic but not a good LB. And ignore medicals.


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