Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later'

Rugby Saint II · 02-17-2021, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

Why do you call him “stupid”? Serious question here, what exactly is it that makes you think he is “stupid”? From an unbiased, academic evaluation..., he (Wonderlik of 27) and Drew Brees (Wonderlik of 28) are roughly equivalent from an intellectual point of view.

https://iqtestprep.com/nfl-wonderlic-scores/

I truly don’t get the argument that Drew Brees is quick, sharp as a tack, while Winston is “stupid” and needs to be “CSP fixed”.

Mostly it's not the stupid stuff he did in college. It's the stupid stuff he did on the field while playing for Tampa. I just can't imagine changing my opinion on the guy I watched twice a year for four years committing stupid mistake after stupid mistake. I respect the Wonderlik but some people takes tests well and still fail in life.

gosaints1 · 02-17-2021, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II

Mostly it's not the stupid stuff he did in college. It's the stupid stuff he did on the field while playing for Tampa. I just can't imagine changing my opinion on the guy I watched twice a year for four years committing stupid mistake after stupid mistake. I respect the Wonderlik but some people takes tests well and still fail in life.

Yes, I see your line of reasoning, but isn’t that more of an immaturity issue as opposed to an intellectual issue. Winston was a 4.0gpa student out of high school. Stanford recruited him, I’ll say that again - STANFORD recruited him. And before anyone makes the allegation that he was a highly touted athlete that Stanford wanted, I’ll remind them that Stanford doesn’t turn on tape of a recruit until that person’s academic portfolio is evaluated.

My guess? Immaturity (in all truthiness it knows no age limit) combined with an atmosphere that enables college athletes to act like Gods, aka they can do what they want and get away with it, is what we have seen in Winston. Not intelligence. I consider myself just of average intelligence, and I’ve not been evaluated by, and admitted to Stanford.

To me, being admitted to Stanford says something wrt a person’s “stupid” level. Immaturity and privilege notwithstanding. Trust me, I understand the argument that he has made some really boneheaded decisions/choices, haven’t we all though, lol. “Stupid” though? I’m not going down that road.

Rugby Saint II · 02-17-2021, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by gosaints1

Yes, I see your line of reasoning, but isn’t that more of an immaturity issue as opposed to an intellectual issue. Winston was a 4.0gpa student out of high school. Stanford recruited him, I’ll say that again - STANFORD recruited him. And before anyone makes the allegation that he was a highly touted athlete that Stanford wanted, I’ll remind them that Stanford doesn’t turn on tape of a recruit until that person’s academic portfolio is evaluated.

My guess? Immaturity (in all truthiness it knows no age limit) combined with an atmosphere that enables college athletes to act like Gods, aka they can do what they want and get away with it, is what we have seen in Winston. Not intelligence. I consider myself just of average intelligence, and I’ve not been evaluated by, and admitted to Stanford.

To me, being admitted to Stanford says something wrt a person’s “stupid” level. Immaturity and privilege notwithstanding. Trust me, I understand the argument that he has made some really boneheaded decisions/choices, haven’t we all though, lol. “Stupid” though? I’m not going down that road.

You make good points. I could just say he makes bad decisions on a regular basis. Can Payton retrain him? We'll see. Like I said, it's hard to pull for someone that you believe is a fool. He may be smart but he's not very sharp.imho I've come around to thinking that Sean may be able to correct his problems. You can't fix stupid is an old saying kind of like hold my beer and watch this.

stickman · 02-17-2021, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Let’s say they do sign Winston, but then a QB they like is a available at 28. Would you draft that QB then Stick ?

If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system.

If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem?

AsylumGuido · 02-17-2021, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system.

If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem?

That's exactly what happened when the Chargers acquired Philip Rivers in the first round (via trade). A guy named Brees stepped it up.

stickman · 02-17-2021, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

That's exactly what happened when the Chargers acquired Philip Rivers in the first round (via trade). A guy named Brees stepped it up.

True. What would they have done if Brees hadn't gotten hurt? They would have had to trade someone. If I remember correctly Brees was an all-pro by this point. Would they have just cut him?

K Major · 02-17-2021, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

True. What would they have done if Brees hadn't gotten hurt? They would have had to trade someone. If I remember correctly Brees was an all-pro by this point. Would they have just cut him?

Kind of off topic but IIRC, Brees wasn't Sean Payton's first choice …

He was actually trying to make a trade for Tony Romo. Sometimes the best decisions are the ones you don't make.

SaintFanInATLHELL · 02-17-2021, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

If Payton sticks with Hill as the heir apparent, then Winston is surely going to leave in free agency. Payton is putting his best foot forward to try to keep Winston at something close to last year's rate and give the team more options to work with. I think the QB situation could still be wide open going into June and July.

Payton's doing a piss poor job of it then. One's market value doesn't stay down by gushing about the guy's talent and talking about how much you want to sign him.

I certainly hope that folks understand that last year was an internship for Winston. One doesn't hire the intern into the company at the same rate as they were paid for the internship.

Take a look at the cap/cash numbers for QBs in 2020: https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/

Of course they are all over the place. But there are a few common buckets:

1. Rookie contracts (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Mayfield)
2. Backups (Shaub, Keenum, McCoy, Daniel)
3. Bridge (Fitzpatrick, Taylor)
4. Veteran starters on 2nd or later contract (pretty much everyone one the list from Prescott down to Bridgewater)

I think I finally figured out that most Saints fans think that Winston is going to end up in category 3 and should be paid as such. I believe that Winston is going to join category 4 with the others. As you can see the salaries and cap numbers for the most part start in the mid $20 millions range.

Unfortunately, I also think that means that the Saints will not be able to retain Winston's services. And I do understand being leery about gambling big money. Indianapolis is literally looking for their 4th QB after Luck retired, Brissett flamed out, and Rivers retired too after paying each of them upwards of $25 million a year.

SFIAH

Boston Saint · 02-17-2021, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by stickman

If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system.

If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem?

Not really a problem, but you are wasting a first round pick on a guy that’s not seeing the field. I’d rather use that first round pick on a CB, LB, WR that has a good chance of playing than a bench warmer. That’s why I don’t think you can commit to Winston and draft a QB first round.

vpheughan · 02-17-2021, 03:32 PM

THE COULD'A WOULD'A SHOULD'A AND WHAT IF wheel.............just keeps turning.

Everyone keeps ignoring SP's keen QB drafting ability. Palko, Canfield and Grayson

All the QB's he's had success with weren't drafted by him.

02-17-2021, 12:35 PM	#41
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by gosaints1 Why do you call him “stupid”? Serious question here, what exactly is it that makes you think he is “stupid”? From an unbiased, academic evaluation..., he (Wonderlik of 27) and Drew Brees (Wonderlik of 28) are roughly equivalent from an intellectual point of view. https://iqtestprep.com/nfl-wonderlic-scores/ I truly don’t get the argument that Drew Brees is quick, sharp as a tack, while Winston is “stupid” and needs to be “CSP fixed”. Mostly it's not the stupid stuff he did in college. It's the stupid stuff he did on the field while playing for Tampa. I just can't imagine changing my opinion on the guy I watched twice a year for four years committing stupid mistake after stupid mistake. I respect the Wonderlik but some people takes tests well and still fail in life. jnormand and gosaints1 like this.

02-17-2021, 12:59 PM	#42
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by Rugby Saint II Mostly it's not the stupid stuff he did in college. It's the stupid stuff he did on the field while playing for Tampa. I just can't imagine changing my opinion on the guy I watched twice a year for four years committing stupid mistake after stupid mistake. I respect the Wonderlik but some people takes tests well and still fail in life. Yes, I see your line of reasoning, but isn’t that more of an immaturity issue as opposed to an intellectual issue. Winston was a 4.0gpa student out of high school. Stanford recruited him, I’ll say that again - STANFORD recruited him. And before anyone makes the allegation that he was a highly touted athlete that Stanford wanted, I’ll remind them that Stanford doesn’t turn on tape of a recruit until that person’s academic portfolio is evaluated. My guess? Immaturity (in all truthiness it knows no age limit) combined with an atmosphere that enables college athletes to act like Gods, aka they can do what they want and get away with it, is what we have seen in Winston. Not intelligence. I consider myself just of average intelligence, and I’ve not been evaluated by, and admitted to Stanford. To me, being admitted to Stanford says something wrt a person’s “stupid” level. Immaturity and privilege notwithstanding. Trust me, I understand the argument that he has made some really boneheaded decisions/choices, haven’t we all though, lol. “Stupid” though? I’m not going down that road. Rugby Saint II likes this.
gosaints1 500th Post Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 576

02-17-2021, 01:27 PM	#43
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,073	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by gosaints1 Yes, I see your line of reasoning, but isn’t that more of an immaturity issue as opposed to an intellectual issue. Winston was a 4.0gpa student out of high school. Stanford recruited him, I’ll say that again - STANFORD recruited him. And before anyone makes the allegation that he was a highly touted athlete that Stanford wanted, I’ll remind them that Stanford doesn’t turn on tape of a recruit until that person’s academic portfolio is evaluated. My guess? Immaturity (in all truthiness it knows no age limit) combined with an atmosphere that enables college athletes to act like Gods, aka they can do what they want and get away with it, is what we have seen in Winston. Not intelligence. I consider myself just of average intelligence, and I’ve not been evaluated by, and admitted to Stanford. To me, being admitted to Stanford says something wrt a person’s “stupid” level. Immaturity and privilege notwithstanding. Trust me, I understand the argument that he has made some really boneheaded decisions/choices, haven’t we all though, lol. “Stupid” though? I’m not going down that road. You make good points. I could just say he makes bad decisions on a regular basis. Can Payton retrain him? We'll see. Like I said, it's hard to pull for someone that you believe is a fool. He may be smart but he's not very sharp.imho I've come around to thinking that Sean may be able to correct his problems. You can't fix stupid is an old saying kind of like hold my beer and watch this. jnormand likes this.

02-17-2021, 02:03 PM	#44
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,687	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by Boston Saint Let’s say they do sign Winston, but then a QB they like is a available at 28. Would you draft that QB then Stick ? If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system. If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem?

02-17-2021, 02:17 PM	#45
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by stickman If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system. If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem? That's exactly what happened when the Chargers acquired Philip Rivers in the first round (via trade). A guy named Brees stepped it up. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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02-17-2021, 02:20 PM	#46
stickman 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Gonzales, LA Posts: 1,687	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by AsylumGuido That's exactly what happened when the Chargers acquired Philip Rivers in the first round (via trade). A guy named Brees stepped it up. True. What would they have done if Brees hadn't gotten hurt? They would have had to trade someone. If I remember correctly Brees was an all-pro by this point. Would they have just cut him?

02-17-2021, 02:25 PM	#47
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by stickman True. What would they have done if Brees hadn't gotten hurt? They would have had to trade someone. If I remember correctly Brees was an all-pro by this point. Would they have just cut him? Kind of off topic but IIRC, Brees wasn't Sean Payton's first choice … He was actually trying to make a trade for Tony Romo. Sometimes the best decisions are the ones you don't make.

02-17-2021, 02:30 PM	#48
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,776	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by neugey If Payton sticks with Hill as the heir apparent, then Winston is surely going to leave in free agency. Payton is putting his best foot forward to try to keep Winston at something close to last year's rate and give the team more options to work with. I think the QB situation could still be wide open going into June and July. Payton's doing a piss poor job of it then. One's market value doesn't stay down by gushing about the guy's talent and talking about how much you want to sign him. I certainly hope that folks understand that last year was an internship for Winston. One doesn't hire the intern into the company at the same rate as they were paid for the internship. Take a look at the cap/cash numbers for QBs in 2020: https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/2020/ Of course they are all over the place. But there are a few common buckets: 1. Rookie contracts (Mahomes, Watson, Jackson, Mayfield) 2. Backups (Shaub, Keenum, McCoy, Daniel) 3. Bridge (Fitzpatrick, Taylor) 4. Veteran starters on 2nd or later contract (pretty much everyone one the list from Prescott down to Bridgewater) I think I finally figured out that most Saints fans think that Winston is going to end up in category 3 and should be paid as such. I believe that Winston is going to join category 4 with the others. As you can see the salaries and cap numbers for the most part start in the mid $20 millions range. Unfortunately, I also think that means that the Saints will not be able to retain Winston's services. And I do understand being leery about gambling big money. Indianapolis is literally looking for their 4th QB after Luck retired, Brissett flamed out, and Rivers retired too after paying each of them upwards of $25 million a year. SFIAH jnormand likes this.
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02-17-2021, 03:13 PM	#49
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' Originally Posted by stickman If he's the best player on the teams list, then yes. Give Winston a chance to prove the job should be his and the rookie the chance to learn the system. If the problem you end up with is that Winston is playing so well he's keeping a first round draft choice on the bench, do you really have a problem? Not really a problem, but you are wasting a first round pick on a guy that’s not seeing the field. I’d rather use that first round pick on a CB, LB, WR that has a good chance of playing than a bench warmer. That’s why I don’t think you can commit to Winston and draft a QB first round.

02-17-2021, 03:32 PM	#50
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,524	Re: Sean Payton wants New Orleans Saints to re-sign QB Jameis Winston 'sooner than later' THE COULD'A WOULD'A SHOULD'A AND WHAT IF wheel.............just keeps turning. Everyone keeps ignoring SP's keen QB drafting ability. Palko, Canfield and Grayson All the QB's he's had success with weren't drafted by him.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,524