Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now?

papz · 11-06-2007, 12:13 PM

Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential.

Next draft...

Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team.

Euphoria · 11-06-2007, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential.

Next draft...

Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team.

OMG - Papz and I agree!!!

WhoDat205 · 11-06-2007, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by papz

Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential.

Next draft...

Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team.

Umm...a 3rd for Smith? 4th for Grant? Is this bizzarro Papz or the real Papz? I have trouble discerning these days. This is a very good D-Line.

The problems with the pass rush are more complex than just saying the D-Line sucks. When you're bringing 4 DLs against 5 OLs and a TE or a RB, then there's never going to be a pass rush. That means you gotta bring guys from other spots starting with LBs and mix in some DBs here and there. That weakens your coverage ability by leaving fewer guys to defend the pass.

The way I see it is Payton and Co. have committed to stopping the run and forcing teams to pass by leaving guys back in coverage and only bringing 4. It's a smart scheme if you think about it. The Saints biggest weapon is the O - the Passing game to be specific - so stop the run and lengthen the game. Give Brees and Co. more time to outscore the opposition.

The one game where you saw a fair amount of blitzing was the seattle game...when we were facing a banged up (washed-up?) Alexander. The pressure was there in that game.

papz · 11-06-2007, 12:48 PM

LOL... I was only being sarcastic!

Euphoria · 11-06-2007, 12:16 PM

Look guys you can pull up all the run defense stats ya want to but the fact of the matter is teams are beating us by going to the air. If they came out and ran against us and our run D was according to the stats I'd say good job but its not the case. Teams open up against us because we can't put pressure on the QB. You can get stats to say anything you want them to say.

You have to look at the BIG PICTURE. Saints D is ranked 21st how do the Saints go from 9th in rushing D to 21st overall ranked??? because teams scrap the run and pass on us and passing D we are HORRIBLE 27th ranked.

Stats are misleading unless you look at the big picture and study the games. We need an upgrade on the D line. We need someone on the line that needs to be doubled teamed to free up someone to penatrate and blitz.

Budsdrinker · 11-06-2007, 12:43 PM

OK I'd like to argue with your theory at the BIG PICTURE.
Here are the net passing yards against the Saints this year and notice the 2 games that we gave up the most yardage is in this 4 game winning streak when teams were trying to play catch up. The key to losing the first 4 were turnovers 12 of them campared to only 4 in the 4 game winning streak. Here are the stats starting with the Colts, yardage then turnovers.
288 3TO, 243 2TO, 186 5TO 1 FOR TD, 155 2TO, 333 1TO, 259 1 TO, 177 1TO, 344 1TO.

Only teams to throw for over 300 yards Seattle and Jacksonville both wins for the Saints.

Euphoria · 11-06-2007, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

OK I'd like to argue with your theory at the BIG PICTURE.
Here are the net passing yards against the Saints this year and notice the 2 games that we gave up the most yardage is in this 4 game winning streak when teams were trying to play catch up. The key to losing the first 4 were turnovers 12 of them campared to only 4 in the 4 game winning streak. Here are the stats starting with the Colts, yardage then turnovers.
288 3TO, 243 2TO, 186 5TO 1 FOR TD, 155 2TO, 333 1TO, 259 1 TO, 177 1TO, 344 1TO.

Only teams to throw for over 300 yards Seattle and Jacksonville both wins for the Saints.

Ok but remember you said you wanted to argue. The BIG PICTURE is the D as a whole and what teams are doing to the Saints. Don't take each game seperately average out us compated to other teams in the league. all those yards you posted equates to a ranking of 27th out of 32 teams. Now I aske you is that good or bad??? Do you think teams are coming out passing on us or running the ball??? If your answers are "Yes - Passing". Then you have the big picture and the reason why the Saints D is ranked 21st and that is not good for any championship quality team.

Stats are misleading they don't tell you what teams are doing on offense against us and if you break it down to show only what you want to show fine but its wrong. You have to study the games and the players performance. If say the Colts come out on us and run the ball every play the whole game... never pass the ball that woud rank our pass D as Number 1. Its misleading.

Budsdrinker · 11-06-2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Ok but remember you said you wanted to argue. The BIG PICTURE is the D as a whole and what teams are doing to the Saints. Don't take each game seperately average out us compated to other teams in the league. all those yards you posted equates to a ranking of 27th out of 32 teams. Now I aske you is that good or bad??? Do you think teams are coming out passing on us or running the ball??? If your answers are "Yes - Passing". Then you have the big picture and the reason why the Saints D is ranked 21st and that is not good for any championship quality team.

Stats are misleading they don't tell you what teams are doing on offense against us and if you break it down to show only what you want to show fine but its wrong. You have to study the games and the players performance. If say the Colts come out on us and run the ball every play the whole game... never pass the ball that woud rank our pass D as Number 1. Its misleading.

My last response to this I promise.
In the 4 losses the Colts were almost perfectly balanced with 29 rushes and 30 passes. The other 3 losses were 32 rush to 16 pass, 34 rush to 26 pass, 28 rush to 19 pass. The major difference was turnovers on offense. The 4 wins which in all the games except Atlanta the opp. was playing catch up and they threw more. 21 rush to 43 pass, 24 rush to 41 pass, 21 rush to 43 pass, 23 rush to 33 pass. Seattle and the 49's threw the most with 43 attempts each with a yard per catch of 6.9 and 3.9 yards per catch respectively. Yes stats can be misleading but the defense isn't that bad and by the way what was the Colt's defense ranked last year?

Euphoria · 11-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Budsdrinker

My last response to this I promise.
In the 4 losses the Colts were almost perfectly balanced with 29 rushes and 30 passes. The other 3 losses were 32 rush to 16 pass, 34 rush to 26 pass, 28 rush to 19 pass. The major difference was turnovers on offense. The 4 wins which in all the games except Atlanta the opp. was playing catch up and they threw more. 21 rush to 43 pass, 24 rush to 41 pass, 21 rush to 43 pass, 23 rush to 33 pass. Seattle and the 49's threw the most with 43 attempts each with a yard per catch of 6.9 and 3.9 yards per catch respectively. Yes stats can be misleading but the defense isn't that bad and by the way what was the Colt's defense ranked last year?

Thats easy... Colts D finished 5th last season. The mark of a champion.

Again those numbers are misleading. You have to watch the games and see how the teams come out against us. They come out throwing and several times before running the ball. They are pass happy against us. They get 2-3 TD's ahead and they can relax as we have to go one dimensional on them with a pass happy offense which caused turnovers... all the stats are misleading based on what the teams do/game plan against us.

BIG PICTURE is really important and what other teams are doing to us.

I also thank you for your debating and not making personal attacks.

WhoDat205 · 11-06-2007, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Euphoria

Thats easy... Colts D finished 5th last season. The mark of a champion.

Again those numbers are misleading. You have to watch the games and see how the teams come out against us. They come out throwing and several times before running the ball. They are pass happy against us. They get 2-3 TD's ahead and they can relax as we have to go one dimensional on them with a pass happy offense which caused turnovers... all the stats are misleading based on what the teams do/game plan against us.

BIG PICTURE is really important and what other teams are doing to us.

I also thank you for your debating and not making personal attacks.

The Colts were 21st, actually.

ESPN - NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League

11-06-2007, 12:13 PM	#1
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,799	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential. Next draft... Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team.

11-06-2007, 12:18 PM	#2
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by papz Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential. Next draft... Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team. OMG - Papz and I agree!!!

11-06-2007, 12:44 PM	#3
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by papz Agreed... both Grant and Smith have tapped out to their potential. Next draft... Draft 3 offensive lineman and 4 DL's. I think that might fix our problem. Actually it won't... we don't have that many high round draft picks. We should explore some trades this coming offseason. Maybe, just maybe, we can get a 3rd rounder for Smith and a 4th for Grant. I know it's still not high enough... but it's better than keeping these overpaid scrubs on our team. Umm...a 3rd for Smith? 4th for Grant? Is this bizzarro Papz or the real Papz? I have trouble discerning these days. This is a very good D-Line. The problems with the pass rush are more complex than just saying the D-Line sucks. When you're bringing 4 DLs against 5 OLs and a TE or a RB, then there's never going to be a pass rush. That means you gotta bring guys from other spots starting with LBs and mix in some DBs here and there. That weakens your coverage ability by leaving fewer guys to defend the pass. The way I see it is Payton and Co. have committed to stopping the run and forcing teams to pass by leaving guys back in coverage and only bringing 4. It's a smart scheme if you think about it. The Saints biggest weapon is the O - the Passing game to be specific - so stop the run and lengthen the game. Give Brees and Co. more time to outscore the opposition. The one game where you saw a fair amount of blitzing was the seattle game...when we were facing a banged up (washed-up?) Alexander. The pressure was there in that game.
	"defence's personal to allwats double team or watch is over, that one reason why the saints or not any good." - Vador101

11-06-2007, 12:48 PM	#4
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,799	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? LOL... I was only being sarcastic!

11-06-2007, 12:16 PM	#5
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Look guys you can pull up all the run defense stats ya want to but the fact of the matter is teams are beating us by going to the air. If they came out and ran against us and our run D was according to the stats I'd say good job but its not the case. Teams open up against us because we can't put pressure on the QB. You can get stats to say anything you want them to say. You have to look at the BIG PICTURE. Saints D is ranked 21st how do the Saints go from 9th in rushing D to 21st overall ranked??? because teams scrap the run and pass on us and passing D we are HORRIBLE 27th ranked. Stats are misleading unless you look at the big picture and study the games. We need an upgrade on the D line. We need someone on the line that needs to be doubled teamed to free up someone to penatrate and blitz.
	E U P H O R I A

11-06-2007, 12:43 PM	#6
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? OK I'd like to argue with your theory at the BIG PICTURE. Here are the net passing yards against the Saints this year and notice the 2 games that we gave up the most yardage is in this 4 game winning streak when teams were trying to play catch up. The key to losing the first 4 were turnovers 12 of them campared to only 4 in the 4 game winning streak. Here are the stats starting with the Colts, yardage then turnovers. 288 3TO, 243 2TO, 186 5TO 1 FOR TD, 155 2TO, 333 1TO, 259 1 TO, 177 1TO, 344 1TO. Only teams to throw for over 300 yards Seattle and Jacksonville both wins for the Saints.

11-06-2007, 01:51 PM	#7
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by Budsdrinker OK I'd like to argue with your theory at the BIG PICTURE. Here are the net passing yards against the Saints this year and notice the 2 games that we gave up the most yardage is in this 4 game winning streak when teams were trying to play catch up. The key to losing the first 4 were turnovers 12 of them campared to only 4 in the 4 game winning streak. Here are the stats starting with the Colts, yardage then turnovers. 288 3TO, 243 2TO, 186 5TO 1 FOR TD, 155 2TO, 333 1TO, 259 1 TO, 177 1TO, 344 1TO. Only teams to throw for over 300 yards Seattle and Jacksonville both wins for the Saints. Ok but remember you said you wanted to argue. The BIG PICTURE is the D as a whole and what teams are doing to the Saints. Don't take each game seperately average out us compated to other teams in the league. all those yards you posted equates to a ranking of 27th out of 32 teams. Now I aske you is that good or bad??? Do you think teams are coming out passing on us or running the ball??? If your answers are "Yes - Passing". Then you have the big picture and the reason why the Saints D is ranked 21st and that is not good for any championship quality team. Stats are misleading they don't tell you what teams are doing on offense against us and if you break it down to show only what you want to show fine but its wrong. You have to study the games and the players performance. If say the Colts come out on us and run the ball every play the whole game... never pass the ball that woud rank our pass D as Number 1. Its misleading.
	E U P H O R I A

11-06-2007, 02:54 PM	#8
Budsdrinker A Cajun Transforming TX Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Woodlands, Texas Posts: 2,787	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by Euphoria Ok but remember you said you wanted to argue. The BIG PICTURE is the D as a whole and what teams are doing to the Saints. Don't take each game seperately average out us compated to other teams in the league. all those yards you posted equates to a ranking of 27th out of 32 teams. Now I aske you is that good or bad??? Do you think teams are coming out passing on us or running the ball??? If your answers are "Yes - Passing". Then you have the big picture and the reason why the Saints D is ranked 21st and that is not good for any championship quality team. Stats are misleading they don't tell you what teams are doing on offense against us and if you break it down to show only what you want to show fine but its wrong. You have to study the games and the players performance. If say the Colts come out on us and run the ball every play the whole game... never pass the ball that woud rank our pass D as Number 1. Its misleading. My last response to this I promise. In the 4 losses the Colts were almost perfectly balanced with 29 rushes and 30 passes. The other 3 losses were 32 rush to 16 pass, 34 rush to 26 pass, 28 rush to 19 pass. The major difference was turnovers on offense. The 4 wins which in all the games except Atlanta the opp. was playing catch up and they threw more. 21 rush to 43 pass, 24 rush to 41 pass, 21 rush to 43 pass, 23 rush to 33 pass. Seattle and the 49's threw the most with 43 attempts each with a yard per catch of 6.9 and 3.9 yards per catch respectively. Yes stats can be misleading but the defense isn't that bad and by the way what was the Colt's defense ranked last year?

11-06-2007, 03:15 PM	#9
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by Budsdrinker My last response to this I promise. In the 4 losses the Colts were almost perfectly balanced with 29 rushes and 30 passes. The other 3 losses were 32 rush to 16 pass, 34 rush to 26 pass, 28 rush to 19 pass. The major difference was turnovers on offense. The 4 wins which in all the games except Atlanta the opp. was playing catch up and they threw more. 21 rush to 43 pass, 24 rush to 41 pass, 21 rush to 43 pass, 23 rush to 33 pass. Seattle and the 49's threw the most with 43 attempts each with a yard per catch of 6.9 and 3.9 yards per catch respectively. Yes stats can be misleading but the defense isn't that bad and by the way what was the Colt's defense ranked last year? Thats easy... Colts D finished 5th last season. The mark of a champion. Again those numbers are misleading. You have to watch the games and see how the teams come out against us. They come out throwing and several times before running the ball. They are pass happy against us. They get 2-3 TD's ahead and they can relax as we have to go one dimensional on them with a pass happy offense which caused turnovers... all the stats are misleading based on what the teams do/game plan against us. BIG PICTURE is really important and what other teams are doing to us. I also thank you for your debating and not making personal attacks.
	E U P H O R I A

11-06-2007, 03:24 PM	#10
WhoDat205 Prediction Pain Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 1,082 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Who Thinks Our D-Line Suck Now? Originally Posted by Euphoria Thats easy... Colts D finished 5th last season. The mark of a champion. Again those numbers are misleading. You have to watch the games and see how the teams come out against us. They come out throwing and several times before running the ball. They are pass happy against us. They get 2-3 TD's ahead and they can relax as we have to go one dimensional on them with a pass happy offense which caused turnovers... all the stats are misleading based on what the teams do/game plan against us. BIG PICTURE is really important and what other teams are doing to us. I also thank you for your debating and not making personal attacks. The Colts were 21st, actually. ESPN - NFL Football Statistics and League Leaders - National Football League