Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Odrick in the first and Chad Jones in the second wouldn't be bad!

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

I am looking forward to seeing Hughes at the combine...

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

If he shows up at 250 Lbs that would be quite the surprise.

Nevertheless, I don't want a player on my team that is motivated entirely by the money to drop weight. So what happens when he gets the money in his pocket like Tub Ass Sullivan. He has no more incentive to stay in shape. No thanks. Vonte Davis had character issues, not weight issues. With a veteran team like the Saints I will take a flyer on a player with exceptional skills and MINOR character issues over a player who has shown he can't keep his weight under 360 LBS. Those players don't last in this league.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

he wasnt motivated by money in college but he dominated in every game he played

every player has a downside or something negative about them but its about looking at the upside

cody played hard and well in college and he was considered overweight by many people......but maybe he is just a giant person......people are slowly getting taller and heavier and cody might just be the jim brown of the era.

im not sure where you get the idea that he cant keep his weight under 360......he didnt play at 360 in college......only at the senior bowl did he show up out of shape because the season was over....and he still played well

football players get motivated by playing the game, not getting the paycheck.....my point was that after he realizes his job is to play football and be good at football he will continue to strive for success.

2 or 3 players in a 44 year history of a team is enough to prevent a team from picking a talented player that could dominate for his entire career? i dont think so

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

In a 4-3, the nose tackle isn't two-gapping. He's asked to shoot through the gap and penetrate the backfield. As a defensive tackle gets older, he loses the ability to run. In a 3-4, the nose tackle is more of a wrestler. Strength is more important than leg speed for a two-gapping nose tackle.
This is the reason that Cody will not be a Saint next year. I really don't know how else to explain this to you.
Also, Saints opponents are always playing from behind because our offense is so good. Therefore, we need DT's that can rush the passer, which Cody cannot do. It's a new NFL Canton. Stopping the run and running the ball are the old school way of winning. Rushing the passer, passing the ball, and defending the pass are the new school way. The pick will be DE, DT with rush capabilities or Athletic OLB that can defend the pass. Think Sean Witherspoon.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

If need determines the pick, then yes...

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

guess what defense we played the majority of the super bowl......go ahead....i'll give you awhile to guess

let me give you a hint....it wasnt the 4-3

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

It was the "we-going-be-all-up-in-that-@$$-and-make-you-colts-our-personal-kid-hand-puppet-defense?!?"

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

alright times up......in most 4-3 defenses they have smaller DTs that rush the passer because they rely so heavily on a 4 man rush by the down linemen.......however, the saints defense blitzed nearly 50% of all the snaps they were on the field this season. 2nd in the league in blitzes

many of our blitzes were picked up because our defensive linemen were not able to control more than 1 blocker at a time which is the sole assignment for a true NT. Cody demands more double teams than any other defensive lineman in college because of his size alone, not to mention his freakish agility for being so big.

for the most part you're right. but we play 6 games against teams in our own division. the same division that houses the 7th, 10th, and 14th best running backs in the league. now maybe stopping the run doesnt matter to the average fan because it doesnt score as effectively as passing, but teams that ran the ball controlled the pace against us

look at teams like the rams, panthers, falcons, dolphins, and cowboys

running may not win games like it used to, but it sure as hell keeps our offense off the field

an OLB? to start over who? fujita? shanle? arnoux? dunbar? evans?

which LB are we going to replace? and why would we want to replace starters like fujita or shanle when we have bigger issues like NT and DE

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Look, you eval the best player available...

We've a great coach and coaching staff that unlike the Mora Years, they will devise the best scheme around the talent we have...

And not lament that we don't have a two-gap defensive end that can provide pass coverage and kick extra points...

But we've got to draft talent that loves the game (i.e. Hughes)...

That's all I am saying, my brothers...

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

as great as BPA sounds, it just isnt the case more often than not

teams draft based on need and they draft the best player available at a position that they need.....thats not drafting on BPA, thats drafting by need no matter how you swing it

im not against drafting a DE/OLB hybrid but that would mean we are still weak inside which is, IMO, our biggest weakness

id rather draft a pure DE and have him be able to play both 4-3 and 3-4 for us

there are a couple good DEs and DTs coming out this year and i hope we dont miss out on one of them

this is one of the best draft classes in years and it only helps that its strongest positions are the same positions that we need

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

I hope somehow the Saints can get Javier Arenas in the draft. He is a GREAT returner, can easily be the dime CB, and would be an all around special teams ace.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

We probably should shelve this debate until the draft. When Cody is available to us at 32 and we pass on his fat non pass rushing ass and pick a traditional 4-3 DT or a traditional pass rushing DE I will come back and say I told you so, and then you can ignore the post. Until then, keep thinking your right.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

im not here to predict who we will pick....merely give reasons for who i want us to pick

i have no problem picking a DT because that is truely our biggest weakness

but every reason you have given for why you think we wont take cody doesnt matter......you think hes lazy and cant rush the passer which tells me you didnt watch him this year and only saw bits of the coverage on the senior bowl

if we do pick cody will you be the first one to post a crow thread and say i was right?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Dude, I the NFL Draft is my life. I care about it more than the Superbowl. Yes, if we pick Cody in the first round of the 2010 Draft, I will come on this board and prostrate myself before you.

Also, I'm a huge LSU, and SEC fan, so yes I most certainly watched Alabama last year, and I would say that Cody is a fine DT when it comes to stuffing the run, and that McClain is probably a little overrated as an ILB because of this. That doesn't make Cody a good fit for the Saints. Would I be upset if they picked him? Not really. Would I be schocked? Yes.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

By the way Cody is listed at 6'4 370 lbs. We will find out his measurements for sure within the next couple of days. I'm not interested in a player of that weight.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him.

Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Completely false. We drafted Darren Howard at spot 33 I believe. He was an immediate starter. Drafted Colston in round 7 and he was an immediate starter. The round or spot a player is drafted has little to no bearing on if he will start and turn into a star. In fact, the numbers have been run and it just so happens that second rounders play longer and at a higher level historically than do first rounders.

As to the previous post, if hypothetically the Saints drafted Dez Bryant at 32 before attempting to trade down with a team in the top of round 2 first, I would consider it a wasted pick as we are loaded at WR.

The truth is teams have various needs, so when they say BPA they really mean BPA at one of the various needs the team has. Our needs are clearly DE, DT, at OLB, S or CB if sharper leaves depending on what the team does with Jenkins.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

I would need to see the stats on it because I consider guys like Colston anomalies. Of the past 5 players selected at 32, only 1 was a full time starter their rookie season (Logan Mankins). The others all contributed but were not starters. The point is not that anyone drafted at 32 can not be a starter (Drew Brees was a #32 pick), but rather I do not think that you are banking on your draft pick at 32 to start and produce their rookie season. Not saying it wont happen or doesnt happen, but I dont think you are envisioning your draft pick at 32 coming onto a Super Bowl winning roster and outplaying someone for a starting spot.

I agree we are stacked at WR, but if a talent falls that far then you draft him. You seriously cant tell me that if a top 10 non QB talent falls to you at pick 32, you are going to pass him to fill a need with a player that is at best the 4th best at his position in the draft. If a player can provide an upgrade for your team and you have him valued much greater than any other player left on your draft board, you take that player rather than reach for someone whose value is not as high as the draft slot you are picking in.

I agree and would prefer to see us draft DE or DT or even a young LB, but if the best left are Ricky Sapp, Arthur Jones, and Eric Norwood and the Saints have a player they ranked much higher than 32 on their draft board that falls even though he doesn't fill a perceived need, I would rather see them take that player than pull an Al Davis Oakland Raider reach.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

I still say you take the best player available...

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Well .. since we are tendering at least 13 players, it is possible we could end up with 13 2nd round picks. What's the record, btw, for the most 2nd round picks by one team?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

that is, IMO, the reason why BPA is a myth. if you pick a player that can fill any kind of need then it is not picking on BPA, it is pickin on need....its great to have a player be not only the BPA but also a player you need because it solves both problems. but there is no reason for us to pick a QB with our first round pick this year when we have bigger issues

i see WR as a possible draft pick this year.....i wouldnt be surprised to see us take a WR at all because of how stagnant our offense got later into the season. courtney roby is great but he plays 1 position and it would be nice to get a player that could possibly play WR and return kicks like a percy harvin. i set my eyes on mardy gilyard from cincy but i doubt we go after him

this is confusing. a 3 tech is where the defensive lineman lines up. its to the outside shoulder of the offensive guard.

a 2 gap tackle is a tackle that is required to play more than 1 gap, like a nose tackle who lines up straight acrossed from the center and is responsible for both gaps on either side of him. people often consider this to be a 3-4 DTs duty but it is also the responsibility of the NT in a 4-3 defense as well because they are sometimes lined up head up on the center. sometimes they line up to the outside shoulder of the center and they are only responsible for that gap(also known as a penetrating DT because they only have to penetrate 1 gap)

a 4-3 under tackle? im not exactly sure what you mean by that. in a 4-3 there are 2 DTs. 1 is lined up at the nose guard position and the other is lined up at the 3 technique

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

http://blackandgold.com/blogs/hagan7...ive-draft.html

Round 1

Sergio Kindle, Texas, SLB/DE, 6-4, 254, 4.54

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

just heard on ESPN by adam schefter that terrance cody is down to about 355 lbs

heard he is still losing weight and is still going down. should be 350 by the time he weighs in for the combine according to adam schefter

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

worried about the DE transition to a true SLB

hes a fast man and hes huge......kinda like a jason taylor

but could he play pure LB? the combine may shed some light on that

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

read it. He was a monster in 2008 at OLB. The switch in 2009 to DE killed his stats. Tell you this, Stand this kid up and watch him tear offenses apart.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

"In other words he is a little slow reading and reacting"

this isnt something you can have from a strong side LB.....the strong side has to be the quickest to the ball because they are the ones that break up the play.......the weakside can be a little slower to the ball and use their speed and strength to make up for it like you have in your analysis

idk much about this kid and if we continue to run the 3-4 it would be nice to have a player that really fits well in that defense......maybe he could be it?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

as for the under DT in a 43 he is a NT in a pure definition. He must require two blockers in order to free up the 43 DT or three tech. DT(Ellis). This allows the 3 tech DT more one one match ups. The 3 tech DT is quicker and faster of the two. The NT (Clancy) is more of you run stopper that clogs the interior of the OL. Our stats against the run this year shows how important Clancy was to the DL.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

No I am say he needs free space to work. In the line he was not that good. Stand him up were he can see the play better is best. He is an OLB that was tried at DE because he is tough. Ok he can do it but it is a waist of his talent. let him run from sideline to sideline and collect heads along the way. Thats were he is best. At his size and speed he is an excellent match up against TE. Blitz him and he will eat up any RB assigned to block him. He is going to be a terror. Williams could do wonders with the kid and Scott is a great mentor for him.

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

he would play behind fujita? curious that a player with that kind of upside would have to sit

why do you think he would sit the first year or 2? is it just because you think fujita is better? and if thats the case....why would we use a pick on him instead of upgrading another position instantly?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Because good teams don't rebuild; they reload...

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Well well well, our "weakest link" was tendered as a 1st rounder. Maybe he's not as bad as you think?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

one thing everybody needs to remember is that the saints scout ohio and other midwestern products very heavily

since sean payton came to the saints, they have drafted 5 players out of the state of ohio alone in only 4 years

the lowest pick out of ohio was antonio pittman who was a 4th rounder

if you want to predict where our draft picks are going to come from......look at prospects in or around ohio......think pennsylvania, michigan, indiana, and illinois......even north carolina has a few picks

also remember we have not picked any players from LSU or texas

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Actually I think he likes USC the most. With Tennessee close behind.

Honestly though. I don't think they really give a rat's azz where picks come from. As long as they can play ball.

How about USF?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

only 2 picks from USC and tennessee

im sure he doesnt care......i was just saying that if you wanted to guess, its a good bet to think that at least one of our picks will come from ohio and it will be an early round pick

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Loomis & SP will have their stuff together. Depending on what Def players fall they may even trade out of the first orund for som extra picks!!

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

Whether we call it BPA or not. Call it value drafting. Whatever method that yielded the Vikings Adrian Peterson and the Cardinals Larry Fitzgerald. Thats the method I like the Saints using in this draft. No reaching to fill a need. If there is a top 10 or top 15 non QB talent that falls to 32 at whatever position whether its a need or not, then you draft that player. If no one falls, then draft for one of your "needs". I still contend that at 32 your expectation of the player you are drafting is not to come in and start right away and make a dynamic impact.

Thanks for the explanations of the DTs. So would a fair assessment of Sedrick Ellis be that he is versatile enough to play either role?

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

ellis can play both well simply because of his strength

hes very strong for only being 6'1" but he is much better when he is matched up 1 on 1 because it allows him to use his skills to get off the blocks

his skills arent used to their fullest if he is required to play nose tackle and his job is to take on blockers every play

Re: 2010 NFL Draft
 

First rounders since SP. USC (2), Tenn (1), OSU (1). :duel: