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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; I find it very strange that two of my earlier posts in this thread before we got into it about turnovers, etc. were very welcomed by Billy and when I disagree with an issue I need to get \"my backwards ...
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12-04-2003, 09:21 AM | #111 |
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I find it very strange that two of my earlier posts in this thread before we got into it about turnovers, etc. were very welcomed by Billy and when I disagree with an issue I need to get \"my backwards Canuck a$$ straight\". I\'ll pass along the same message to you as I did to Saintsfan....I\'ll be sure to PM you before I post to authorize the content of my messages.
I say all this tongue in cheek as well Billy. No offense taken by me as well. I\'d really like you to explain how you are right? And just for your amusement I\'ll post actual statements made in your\'s and WhoDat\'s posts so that I\'m only posting...
WhoDat-tries to explain logic to Saintsfan
You are attacking WhoDat for saying this:
Point-You are attacking a statement as being....not incorrect...but incomplete...and defending your position with a statement that is not incorrect....but incomplete. WhoDat, myself, Gator, etc...were trying to show that penalties, missed blocks and dropped passes are a grey area.....but turnovers are black. You\'re making it a black and white affair. Billy-
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12-04-2003, 09:53 AM | #112 |
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12-04-2003, 01:16 PM | #113 |
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From lumm0x, to BillyC:
:P
[Edited on 4/12/2003 by BlackandBlue] |
12-04-2003, 02:56 PM | #114 |
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I did not mean he left because of you. What I was asking was if him and another member got into and if the post got deleted because of foul launguage. Everyone sure is sensetive here lately. Oh well........ [Edited on 4/12/2003 by BillyC] |
12-04-2003, 05:26 PM | #115 |
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LummOx --
The whole debate between WhoDat and myself started because he was telling me that Brooks was most to blame for the offensive short comings. I said that the other 10 players on offense collectively were more to blame than one man, even if it was the QB. I tried to explain that penalties were killing a lot of drives and WhoDat told me that penalties aren\'t drive stoppers. I called him on that ONE statement and somewhere down the line he changed that ONE statement ever so carefully. Going back to my orginal point, I believe that YES Aaron Brooks has contributed more than ANY one single player on offense for the lack of success, but that\'s because he has an opportunity to screw up every play. I don\'t want to make excuses for Brooks. All I was trying to say is that over the course of the SEASON, Brooks is not the main reason that for the problems on offense. I contend that penalties, dropped passes, and just plain lack of execution are the REAL problem. Not Brooks. Now if y\'all want to believe WhoDat and say Brooks is more to blame than the other 10-guys on offense combined. I think all of you really need to examine the way you think. WhoDat\'s arguement that Brooks is most to blame becuase he has more turnovers is foolish. That\'s like me saying Deuce is second to blame becuase he has the second most turnovers. See how that works? [Edited on 4/12/2003 by BillyC] |
12-04-2003, 06:54 PM | #116 |
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http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/10/Bu...ightmare.shtml
Those statements by Gruden prove that penalties are drive killers. Here\'s the part where WhoDat is specifically wrong. Here\'s the statement :
Let me explain this another way. It\'s fist and 10. We need 10-yards for a 1st down. The key thing here is we only need TEN yards. We get a holding call on first down and now it\'s 1st and 20. We get 9 yards on 1st down. Now it\'s 2nd and 11. We get 6 yards on 2nd down. Now that would have been enough yards for a fist down if not for the penalty. Now on 3rd down we get 2-yards. Drive is now dead. Why? Well, we picked up 10-yards on that drive but becuase we got the penalty it wasn\'t a first down. It\'s pretty cut and dry to me!!!!!!!!! Which brings me back to my point. If the Saints keep putting themselves at a disadvantage with penalites, drives will keep being killed. Sure they will overcome SOME penalties, but more times than not the drives will be killed. [Edited on 5/12/2003 by BillyC] |
12-05-2003, 08:59 AM | #117 |
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No one was arguing the effect of the blocks, drops, and penalties. Brooks was used as an example in the thread, so now I\'ll choose Deuce. If he fumbles twice in the game and Gandy takes two false starts, who caused a greater impact on the respective drives? That was the whole point. |
12-05-2003, 09:16 AM | #118 |
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LummOx,
The only problem I had with WhoDat is he was trying to say that over the course of the season that Brooks is most to blame. I do not beleive that. It\'s true in certain games but not most of the games. I contend that the other 10-guys have contributed MORE to the lack of success than Brooks has. As far as what are drive killers. I know that WhoDat, you, and myself all know what drive killers are. Although I don\'t think WhoDat is giving enough credit to how penalties have really hurt this team. When I say the other 10-guys. I\'m talking about the offense as a whole and not any one individual. It takes a collective effort and Brooks has made more mistake, but that\'s true of 99% of every offense if not 100%. [Edited on 5/12/2003 by BillyC] |
12-05-2003, 12:37 PM | #119 |
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Wrong again. I never said \"over the course of the season\". I was talking about the EAGLES game. Now, if you want to get into a disucssion about the one person whose play has most negatively impacted the Saints on offense this season, it would be tough to call. Still, I would go with Brooks again. Only the center touches the ball as much as he does and I think Fontenot\'s play has been as consistent as ever. He\'s a rock in the middle. You know what you\'re going to get from him b/c he\'s done it the same way for over a decade.
Of course, even if his play was poor, Fontenot isn\'t a \"skill\" player. I won\'t even begin to imply that the line isn\'t extremely important, However, I believe that skill players impact a game more than linemen. Thus, the only guy who has had near the number of touches as Brooks is Deuce. How do you think those two compare? Horn, Pathon, Stallworth... none of them is having a great year, no doubt, but with all their faults I personally cannot blame them as much as Brooks. Everytime I see him lpay I think of my old high school coach. He would say, \"Mistakes are OK, as long as they are aggressive and not mental. I\'ll never blame you for a physical letdown on a smart play. Make a dumb play, and we\'ve got problems.\" Brooks makes dumb plays more than any other player on the TEAM. It\'s hard not to blame him. The one thing I will say, is that I\'m glad everyone else here sees right through you Billy. I didn\'t even have to defend myself for the last two days. Lumm0x, BnB, Gator... they\'ve all jumped in to side with me in this debate. Thanks guys I appreciate it. Now back to your normally scheduled programming: Billy, you were about to tell us all about why Brooks isn\'t underperforming and hurting this team week in and week out and how we really have a chance at the Super Bowl if all of the no-talent bums around your boy AB would just step up and make a play every now and then... right? |
\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse
\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\" |
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12-05-2003, 04:55 PM | #120 |
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An offense has 11-players and all you can do is point to ONE player (Brooks) and say he makes more mistakes than any ONE player on offense. I\'ll agree with you though WhoDat. But, that\'s true of just about every QB because they have more opportunities. Unlike you, I can see that offense is a total effort by all 11-players and I KNOW that just because the QB makes more mistakes than the other players, it does not mean he is the problem. Unless you are willing to concede that all QB\'s are the problem with the offense. Look at your boy Delhomme. He has more mistakes than Brooks and every player on his team. But of course you are such a HYPOCRITE you won\'t pin the samething on Delhomme. The fact is though that Delhomme pretty much SUCKS. Would you agree that if you look at the other 10-players on offense as a group, that they have contributed more to the problems on offense than Brooks has? Or, do you want me and everyone elseto believe that because Brooks has more turnovers he is more to blame. You can\'t just compare Brooks to any ONE postion and say he is the BIGGEST problem. That\'s so short sighted. Where do you stand WhoDat? Have the 10-other guys as a group held this offense back more than anything else? Or, does Brooks\' mistakes out weigh all 10-guys combined? If you say the other 10-guys have a greater impact than Brooks, then you need to quit being so damn short sighted and start placing some of the blame on them. Can you do that? As a matter a fact I would like EVERYONE to weigh in on this question: Is Brooks more to blame than all the other players on offense combined? [Edited on 5/12/2003 by BillyC] |