GATORMAN RULES

WhoDat · 11-26-2003, 03:11 PM

Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers. That\'s like me saying that Brooks has 300 incompletions this season so obviously he\'s stopped more drives than the rest of the team combined. No, a dropped pass or a penalty is NOT a drive stopper unless it happens at a specific time. A couple of weeks back, Horn dropped a pass and Brooks went back to him the next play. We scored on that drive. Gardner\'s two drops on third down plays stop drives. Is that simple enough for you to understand Billy?

You see, when Brooks fumbles the ball and the other team recovers, the drive is over. A holding penalty on first and ten hurts, but doesn\'t necessarily end it. A holding call on 3rd and 8, or a dropped pass, well, those both pretty much end the drive.

I know you don\'t understand football all that well Billy, but come one. This stuff is easy.

Interestingly, in the poll I put up, you didn\'t even answer that you thought Brooks was the answer. Even you said you thought the Saints should look to find a QB to develop to replace Brooks. Yet, in this thread, he\'s the answer. Sounds like Billy-speak to me.

BillyC · 11-26-2003, 03:19 PM

Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers.

Man this is like taking candy from a baby. So you\'re trying to tell me if we are faced with 1st and 20 because of a holding penalty that this isn\'t a drive killer? I suppose if we make 20-yards you would be correct. Hell, how \'bout first and 30? You make me laugh !! Actually I\'m sad -- For you -- I thought you understood the game of football better WhoDat. I was wrong again.

WhoDat · 11-26-2003, 03:32 PM

OK Billy, go back and count how many times we\'ve had a penalty during a series and picked up a first down. Then go back and count how many times Brooks has turned the ball over and we\'ve picked up a first down. I\'m guessing your results will look something like this:

miscues that didn\'t stop a drive: 150
Brooks turnovers that didn\'t stop a drive: 0

If a penalty, missed block, dropped pass, or anything of the like equated to a drive-ending f-up, then why don\'t teams just punt after one of them? First and ten, flase start, punt. Right Billy? The drive is over then, right?

No, of course not, and yet again you\'re showing that you will argue a ridiculous point in order to keep your little dream world from crumbling. If those things you\'re talking about KILLED a drive, then there would only be about 5 first downs in the LEAGUE this year. Sure, they hurt drives, but they DON\'T KILL them. Turnovers, on the other hand, result in first downs about 5 times a year when a team turns the ball over and their opponent fumbles it right back. 99% of the time, turnovers DO kill drives. If you can\'t understand that, and you say I know nothing about football, well, then I\'ll take that as a compliment.

What\'s worse is that I challenged you to a VERY EASY proof. List 15 dropped passes, penalties, or even turnovers by players other than Brooks, and you can\'t even do that. Yeah Billy, your view is built on real solid supporting evidence - it\'s called Tang.

WhoDat · 11-26-2003, 03:34 PM

Where\'s that OWNED picture of the kitten when you need it BnB?

BillyC · 11-26-2003, 03:35 PM

Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers.

You can post till ya blue in the face and drink all the WhoTang ya want to, but you are wrong about the above statement. Feel free to step up to the plate WhoDat.

C\'mon just admit you are wrong. We\'ve all been wrong and it will make you sound much more crediable...........

WhoDat · 11-26-2003, 03:44 PM

I\'ve just copied that statement. It\'s classic. Thank you billy. Thank you!!

BlackandBlue · 11-26-2003, 04:39 PM

What? This one? I need new material...

WhoDat · 11-26-2003, 04:51 PM

Thanks BnB. Can you please wade into that other thread? I need help. The lunatic is on the loose again and he\'s full of Tang.

lumm0x · 11-26-2003, 06:56 PM

Billy, I agree that this is a team sport. Brooks is 1/11th of the offensive execution. No arguements there. It takes a coordinated 11 responsibilities for any play to work, and each player should be expected to perform his part in consistent success relative to the player\'s personal ability. But the importance of each of those 11 responsibilities is not equal on every given play. Players salaries within comparison of the position should also be a ranking of their ability at that position compared to their peers.
I know you think Brooks gets overly criticized and held accountable for more than his 11th share of the offensive problems, and I will agree that he may get overly blamed at times. But, I feel that given the position he plays (unquestionably the marquee position in this league), the salary he recieves, and the ability he possesses, it is not unjustified to expect him to get that kind of attention.
You quoted the Titans game and referenced Deuce. You were being generous saying that he had 12 yards rushing. I think he had 8, but that\'s meaningless. When the Saints had the ball (I think for 19 minutes of the game), they were already down and deep in their own end. The Titans stacked 9 in the box and dared us to throw and we ran Deuce up the gut for 5 of his 11 carries on our first two drives. If we asked Brooks to throw hail mary\'s on every play, no one would question his completion %.
I don\'t know how this arguement can ever end. The freak fumbles that Brooks exhibits when untouched are inexcusable. At least Pennington has a weird glove on to blame when he does it twice a game. I like Aaron Brooks. I think he has a world of talent that may go to waste. In all honesty I can only give him one more year to develop as a QB in every aspect of the position until I will be convinced he cannot progress as a player. I think alot of the problem is that he has too much potential. No one expects a player of Jake Delhomme\'s ability to play the game like Brooks can. He has no unrealistic expectations or unjustified criticism. The Panthers are elated when he does good and accepting when he makes mistakes. But when you have all of the ability in the world, that patience is thinner. By the end of next year, in my mind, he will need to show more focus and concentration to minimize dropping the ball, progressing through his reads at a faster rate, showing more touch on short patterns, developing pocket awareness by being more decisive with his actions to shorten the duration he retains the ball, better clock management, and distinguishing himself in a more vocal role publicly with this team to let the fans and media know that he leads this offense. As a fan, I need to see this from him. At that point, I will stop expecting it and be resigned that his simply is what he is. It is the expectation that he can be better that makes us not understand why he is not. Every fan needs to create that line in their minds as to when that time is. For some it has come and gone and then see no potential advancement from him.

BillyC · 11-26-2003, 07:16 PM

Yeah I can agree with that LummOx. Honestly I get tired of talking about Aaron Brooks. But, no one else wants to point out some of the short-sighted things said about Brooks so I volunteered for the job.

At this point I\'d just as soon talk about the proper technique to place the ball for the filed goal kicker !!

11-26-2003, 03:11 PM	#61
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers. That\'s like me saying that Brooks has 300 incompletions this season so obviously he\'s stopped more drives than the rest of the team combined. No, a dropped pass or a penalty is NOT a drive stopper unless it happens at a specific time. A couple of weeks back, Horn dropped a pass and Brooks went back to him the next play. We scored on that drive. Gardner\'s two drops on third down plays stop drives. Is that simple enough for you to understand Billy? You see, when Brooks fumbles the ball and the other team recovers, the drive is over. A holding penalty on first and ten hurts, but doesn\'t necessarily end it. A holding call on 3rd and 8, or a dropped pass, well, those both pretty much end the drive. I know you don\'t understand football all that well Billy, but come one. This stuff is easy. Interestingly, in the poll I put up, you didn\'t even answer that you thought Brooks was the answer. Even you said you thought the Saints should look to find a QB to develop to replace Brooks. Yet, in this thread, he\'s the answer. Sounds like Billy-speak to me.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-26-2003, 03:19 PM	#62
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers. Man this is like taking candy from a baby. So you\'re trying to tell me if we are faced with 1st and 20 because of a holding penalty that this isn\'t a drive killer? I suppose if we make 20-yards you would be correct. Hell, how \'bout first and 30? You make me laugh !! Actually I\'m sad -- For you -- I thought you understood the game of football better WhoDat. I was wrong again.
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

11-26-2003, 03:32 PM	#63
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES OK Billy, go back and count how many times we\'ve had a penalty during a series and picked up a first down. Then go back and count how many times Brooks has turned the ball over and we\'ve picked up a first down. I\'m guessing your results will look something like this: miscues that didn\'t stop a drive: 150 Brooks turnovers that didn\'t stop a drive: 0 If a penalty, missed block, dropped pass, or anything of the like equated to a drive-ending f-up, then why don\'t teams just punt after one of them? First and ten, flase start, punt. Right Billy? The drive is over then, right? No, of course not, and yet again you\'re showing that you will argue a ridiculous point in order to keep your little dream world from crumbling. If those things you\'re talking about KILLED a drive, then there would only be about 5 first downs in the LEAGUE this year. Sure, they hurt drives, but they DON\'T KILL them. Turnovers, on the other hand, result in first downs about 5 times a year when a team turns the ball over and their opponent fumbles it right back. 99% of the time, turnovers DO kill drives. If you can\'t understand that, and you say I know nothing about football, well, then I\'ll take that as a compliment. What\'s worse is that I challenged you to a VERY EASY proof. List 15 dropped passes, penalties, or even turnovers by players other than Brooks, and you can\'t even do that. Yeah Billy, your view is built on real solid supporting evidence - it\'s called Tang.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

11-26-2003, 03:34 PM	#64
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES Where\'s that OWNED picture of the kitten when you need it BnB?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-26-2003, 03:35 PM	#65
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES Billy, dropped passes, penalties, missed blocks, etc. happen all the time and they\'re not drive stoppers. You can post till ya blue in the face and drink all the WhoTang ya want to, but you are wrong about the above statement. Feel free to step up to the plate WhoDat. C\'mon just admit you are wrong. We\'ve all been wrong and it will make you sound much more crediable...........
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842

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11-26-2003, 03:44 PM	#66
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES I\'ve just copied that statement. It\'s classic. Thank you billy. Thank you!!
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-26-2003, 04:39 PM	#67
BlackandBlue Kinder, gentler Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,889	GATORMAN RULES What? This one? I need new material...

11-26-2003, 04:51 PM	#68
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	GATORMAN RULES Thanks BnB. Can you please wade into that other thread? I need help. The lunatic is on the loose again and he\'s full of Tang.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

11-26-2003, 06:56 PM	#69
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	GATORMAN RULES Billy, I agree that this is a team sport. Brooks is 1/11th of the offensive execution. No arguements there. It takes a coordinated 11 responsibilities for any play to work, and each player should be expected to perform his part in consistent success relative to the player\'s personal ability. But the importance of each of those 11 responsibilities is not equal on every given play. Players salaries within comparison of the position should also be a ranking of their ability at that position compared to their peers. I know you think Brooks gets overly criticized and held accountable for more than his 11th share of the offensive problems, and I will agree that he may get overly blamed at times. But, I feel that given the position he plays (unquestionably the marquee position in this league), the salary he recieves, and the ability he possesses, it is not unjustified to expect him to get that kind of attention. You quoted the Titans game and referenced Deuce. You were being generous saying that he had 12 yards rushing. I think he had 8, but that\'s meaningless. When the Saints had the ball (I think for 19 minutes of the game), they were already down and deep in their own end. The Titans stacked 9 in the box and dared us to throw and we ran Deuce up the gut for 5 of his 11 carries on our first two drives. If we asked Brooks to throw hail mary\'s on every play, no one would question his completion %. I don\'t know how this arguement can ever end. The freak fumbles that Brooks exhibits when untouched are inexcusable. At least Pennington has a weird glove on to blame when he does it twice a game. I like Aaron Brooks. I think he has a world of talent that may go to waste. In all honesty I can only give him one more year to develop as a QB in every aspect of the position until I will be convinced he cannot progress as a player. I think alot of the problem is that he has too much potential. No one expects a player of Jake Delhomme\'s ability to play the game like Brooks can. He has no unrealistic expectations or unjustified criticism. The Panthers are elated when he does good and accepting when he makes mistakes. But when you have all of the ability in the world, that patience is thinner. By the end of next year, in my mind, he will need to show more focus and concentration to minimize dropping the ball, progressing through his reads at a faster rate, showing more touch on short patterns, developing pocket awareness by being more decisive with his actions to shorten the duration he retains the ball, better clock management, and distinguishing himself in a more vocal role publicly with this team to let the fans and media know that he leads this offense. As a fan, I need to see this from him. At that point, I will stop expecting it and be resigned that his simply is what he is. It is the expectation that he can be better that makes us not understand why he is not. Every fan needs to create that line in their minds as to when that time is. For some it has come and gone and then see no potential advancement from him.

11-26-2003, 07:16 PM	#70
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842	GATORMAN RULES Yeah I can agree with that LummOx. Honestly I get tired of talking about Aaron Brooks. But, no one else wants to point out some of the short-sighted things said about Brooks so I volunteered for the job. At this point I\'d just as soon talk about the proper technique to place the ball for the filed goal kicker !!
BillyC Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 842