saintfan

http://www.thenewsstar.com/saints/ht...B5AEFB0E.shtml

WhoDat

Disappointing. I thought Craver could mature and develop into a good player. It also makes you wonder. As much as Haslett and Co. were drumming this guy up a year or two ago, to see him as a guy that isn\'t likely to last longer than this season... I have to sort of wonder about whether Haslett really thought this kid was that good or if he was just blowing smoke. Either way, it\'s not good.

Let\'s see if Saintfan bites... there\'s shrimp on the end of that line.

Danno

Maybe he feels he has a better shot to make this team as a linebacker!
You know, he just might be on to something.

saintfan

LOL...Ok, I\'ll bite. Keyou was a sort of risk was he not? Lot\'s of players are \"risks\" -- some turn out to be Super Stars and others just don\'t. There is no reward without risk eh Whodat?

Personally I thought (and still think) that Keyou could be a good player. I doubt he\'s the only guy in the NFL showing up a bit heavy. I seem to recall Norman Hand made a habit of it -- we tossed him and some folks in here were up in arms about it. I think the Seahawks just released him too.

I don\'t really think Keyou\'s coming into offseason workouts a bit heavy is an indictment of Jim Haslett Whodat. Do you?

C'mon Man...

saintsfan1313

Damn gatorman, that was a pretty heart-felt post. I got teary-eyed. damn good points though. Regardless of him being a possible risk, it doesnt mean we should just accept that we knew this could happen and let it go on un-noticed. If we are paying his damn bills, then he needs a kick in the ass and start earning the bling bling he has. The Saints have made some gutsy moves bringing in many risks, both good and bad, but we cant jus let him collect pay and not perform. I thought he has some promise still, i just hope he lives up to it. This year would be a great year to do it.

is this all really happening????

Danno

I agree with almost everything, except the part about Craver being highly touted. After all he was a 4th round pick. I think a lot of us HOPED he\'d develop into a really good CB but there was a reason he went from a 1st round projection to a 4th round pick. I believe its coming to the surface now. He appears to be a lazy slacker.
I had hopes for this kid, and at 190 lbs he may have delivered as a decent #2CB.
But if it is indeed Craver Haz is referring to, and he came into camp at 210-215, then that is totally unacceptable and should be disciplined accordingly. It probably cost Craver his entire career.
A bordeline CB with a lazy slacker attitude is definitely not long for this league.
You were given a second chance, and it appears you completely blew it Keyou.
Welcome to the arena league pal.

saintfan

It appears as tho it has Gator, wouldn\'t you say? Now, what do you think Haz oughta do about it? Fine him? Cut him? Make him run laps? Tell him his mother is a two dollar whore?

Which punishment is appropriate, and which do you think will happen? I think we all care, by the way. If no one gave a green frog\'s flyin\' fat butt then none of us would be aware that Keyou (or someone) came in heavy to begin with...right?

So what\'s the issue? Haz drafted the guy and people are using this to insinuate he\'s not a good coach? Is that it?

Finally, I think you\'ll find that a whole lot of players are \"shipped our or let go\" because of issues not related to on the field performance...two of those issues would be attitude and Salary Cap, and I think you\'ll find that every NFL team has issues with both from time to time.

C'mon Man...

DatFu

[Edited on 7/4/2004 by DatFu]

saintfan

So lets be clear here Gatorman. Are you saying Keyou is directly responsible for his own actions or are you saying his actions are a result of his Coach being named Jim Haslett? I\'m still a bit unsure what your point is exactly...

Did Kerry Collins have a drinking problem because he was playing for a particular coach in Carolina? Did Brett Favre\'s drinking problem stem from a particular football coach he played for? Is Norman Hand\'s like for Chicken Wings his own problem or someone elses? What about Kyle Turley? He\'s a freakin\' jerk by most accounts. Am I to assume you think that\'s Haseltts fault too? Do any of us know the whole story behind the Willie Roaf fiasco? Why is it his name gets mentioned when people are raggin\' on Haslett?

Look man, I\'m not trying to blow sunshine here, and I\'m not saying Jim is the guy that\'ll take the Saints to the Superbowl -- and I\'m not saying he won\'t. These players are grown men...this ain\'t 10th grade and it ain\'t college. Might Keyou have been a bust as a 4th round pick? Pehaps. However, I think the Jury is still out on him. How many other teams have drafted guys in the 4th round only to see \'em fail? See, you seem to have decided that Haz needs to go. That\'s ok. I just don\'t think it\'s fair to make some of the assumtions you\'re making. There IS talent on the Saints team. If you disagree then fine. We\'ll just have to disagree. There aren\'t many players known for being instant stars Gatorman. It takes time.

Do you think Haz can\'t coach the talent he has or is it that you think he just doesn\'t have any talent on the team? I\'m not on the Haz bandwagon as much as you might think I am, but I sincerely hope some of his guys starting their 2nd or 3rd year show the improvement that many think they will. If that happens this year (and it\'s not at all out of the question) you\'ll be whistelin\' a different tune Gatorman.

C'mon Man...

WhoDat

I love it. A couple of lines and I spawn another one of these things. I should be given an award. Love the debate so far by the way. Well thought out and intelligent posts. Glad to have you guys working again.

First, a couple of comments:

If you want to look at that by person (per capita), he\'s in the top 1 or 2% of wage earners.

Danno - I don\'t care what the media said. This guy was touted by OUR coach(es).


On to Saintfan, my favorite leader of the dark side. Great points sir. I am not suggesting that Craver\'s faults are a result of Jim Haslett directly. In fact, looking at this in a vacuum, in which one only considers the Craver case, makes your argument even stronger. Only problem is, we don\'t live in a vacuum.

When you consider the large number of players who don\'t seem to be developing well, when you consider the team\'s overall underperformance for the last three seasons, when you consider some suspect off-season moves since Mueller left, etc. etc. etc., this Craver business becomes just another piece in an ever-growing puzzle. This isn\'t an isolated incident. It\'s a consistent pattern and practice. This is Saints football under Jim Haslett.

Look, I can see only two options here. One - this is one of the most talented teams the organizations has ever seen and they have been underperforming for a long time now. If that is the case, your finger must first point at Haslett, Loomis, and/or Benson. Two - this team isn\'t nearly as talented as we all think it is. If that\'s the case, I still blame Haslett. I blame him for not making the appropriate moves to get the players we need under contract. I blame him for telling me this team is that talented. Either way Haslett is at the crux of the problem.

You continue to be patient. OK. I\'m not. I think asking 5 years to keep this type talent together is asking a lot. There are just too many \"big money\" guys. Tebucky, Howard, Grant, Sullivan, Bentley, Horn, McAllister, Brooks, Gandy, and maybe even Boo, Stallworth, a first round corner this season... that\'s a lot of big money contracts we\'re paying now, or will have to address soon. I just can\'t see us keeping all this talent intact, especially considering the turnover we\'ve had of recent. It\'s time for the Saints, and Jim Haslett, to put up or shut up. In fact, I\'d say we\'re past that time, but the decision to keep him has already been made. Jim now gets a FOURTH year to prove himself capable of taking a team with enough talent to go deep into the playoffs to any post-season at all. For the second year in a row, \'No More Excuses.\'

[Edited on 7/4/2004 by WhoDat]

\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. That’s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans Saints’ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse


\"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"