Aaron Brooks and leadership

GumboBC · 05-18-2004, 04:02 PM

Nice post SaintNik. That was some fuel for the fire, no doubt.

I\'ll be the first to argue with you though (provided no one types faster than I do). I thought the question was about leadership not physical skill. Pretty well everyone, except maybe BMG seems to agree that AB has all the physical tools. I think that being athletic is only ONE of the components of being a great leader. It is no secret that as of now, I\'m in the pro-AB camp, but I think the counter to your claim GIVEN THE CURRENT DISCUSSION is that it is a Non Sequitur.

It seems that Billy and I agree then that leadership is learned - though I like his word, developed, better. However, the word developed implies that there was something there to develop in the first place. Isn\'t it possible, as WhoDat suggests, that on Billy\'s view of development, there is nothing there to develop in AB\'s case - no X-factor?

JKool -- I think EVERYONE has the ABILITY to lead. I use the example of someone being born funny or comical, if you will. We\'ve all seen folks that aren\'t funny. But, do they have the ABILITY to make people laugh?? Sure they have the ABILITY. They just need to develop it. They might not become the best comics in the world, but they have the ABILITY to develop into very funny people. They can learn from other people or what have you.

Samething as leadership. The can DEVELOP their leadership. They might not DEVELOP into the greatest leaders in the world. But, they can definately get better.

For anyone to suggest that Aaron Brooks (or ANYONE else for that matter) doesn\'t have any leadership qualities needs to learn more about the subject of leadership.

[Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]

JKool · 05-18-2004, 04:07 PM

Billy, you\'ll see that I agree with you (right here in this thread). However, it is not clear to me that anyone whatsoever has the ability to develop any talent whatsoever. Take someone with a serious brain-defect for example - that person cannot develop into a neuro-surgeon, no matter how much they practice.

While I agree 100% that AB could learn to be a leader, I don\'t think that this is JUST OBVIOUS based on the idea that many skills (comical, leaderly, or what-have-you) are developable.

JKool · 05-18-2004, 04:09 PM

Billy,

There is a second problem. Even if everyone is born with the ABILITY to lead, it is not clear to me that at some point it doesn\'t simply become to hard for them to learn to lead. Think of the most shy person you know. Barring some really weird circumstances, I think it would simply take too long and too much for them to become leaders - thus, one might say that they will not be a leader, ever. Keep in mind, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here.

GumboBC · 05-18-2004, 04:24 PM

Billy,

There is a second problem. Even if everyone is born with the ABILITY to lead, it is not clear to me that at some point it doesn\'t simply become to hard for them to learn to lead. Think of the most shy person you know. Barring some really weird circumstances, I think it would simply take too long and too much for them to become leaders - thus, one might say that they will not be a leader, ever. Keep in mind, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here.

Let\'s break it down JKool. If ANYONE can get JUST ONE person to follow them, then that means they have the ability to lead. That doesn\'t mean that they are the best leader in the world, it means they have the ability to lead. So, I think that proves EVERYONE has the ABILITY to lead. (Unless, of course, they have brain damage, like you suggested)

Also something that is totally being overlooked is WHO are the folks that are being led. Ever heard the saying \"Too many chiefs and not enough indians?\" That saying suggests that some people are hard to lead. Take Terell Owens for example. He\'d be much tougher to lead than a lot of other players, cause he wants to be the leader.

Back to the point I\'m trying to make. If a person can lead at least ONE person. Why not two? If two, why not 4, etc, etc..

Leadership, like everything else, CAN get better. To suggest that someone can\'t get better at being a leader is to suggest they don\'t have the ability to begin with. To suggest they don\'t have the ability to begin with means they don\'t have the ability to get even ONE person to follow them.

So, when someone tells me that someone can be born without the ability to lead. I think that is a very short-sighted view and they really haven\'t done much research on the subject and are just repeating what they have heard..

[Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]

Danno · 05-18-2004, 05:11 PM

Being the natural born leader that I am and having developed that trait further, I\'d like to take the lead on this and suggest that this whole fricking topic DIE! DIE! DIE!

[Edited on 18/5/2004 by Danno]

JKool · 05-18-2004, 05:18 PM

Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling?

JKool · 05-18-2004, 05:21 PM

How about the question raised, albeit indirectly, by Subguy? If not AB, then who should lead our offense. I\'m somewhat convinced by the following argument: it is more difficult for players at positions other than QB (aside from perhaps RB) to actually be the leader of the offense. Perhaps leadership by committee is possible?

GumboBC · 05-18-2004, 05:22 PM

Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling?

I got that same feeling myself.

But, it was interesting to me. I even learned a few things, from all sides of the arguement.

My conclusion: Leadership is instilled at birth to a certain degree. Everyone has the ability to lead. Some will just never be as good as others.

Final conclusion: Brooks isn\'t a great leader. Probably never will be great at it. But, he can get better.

[Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]

saintfan · 05-18-2004, 06:00 PM

Perhaps we could call in Tony Robbins on all this leadership stuff. I\'ve watched his infomercials, so I know he\'d say it could be taught. :P

In my most humble opinion we all have the ability. To say we\'re born with genes that either allow it or not is WAY short sighted, again, in my most humble opinion.

Einstein wasn\'t just a poor student people, he was a poor MATH student.

Danno · 05-18-2004, 08:18 PM

Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling?

I was hoping Pak or 08 would actually dedicate a new seperate section to this leadership topic, so I don\'t see it re-hashed for the 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,th time!

Ooops, I need to take my affable pill.

05-18-2004, 04:02 PM	#51
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership Nice post SaintNik. That was some fuel for the fire, no doubt. I\'ll be the first to argue with you though (provided no one types faster than I do). I thought the question was about leadership not physical skill. Pretty well everyone, except maybe BMG seems to agree that AB has all the physical tools. I think that being athletic is only ONE of the components of being a great leader. It is no secret that as of now, I\'m in the pro-AB camp, but I think the counter to your claim GIVEN THE CURRENT DISCUSSION is that it is a Non Sequitur. It seems that Billy and I agree then that leadership is learned - though I like his word, developed, better. However, the word developed implies that there was something there to develop in the first place. Isn\'t it possible, as WhoDat suggests, that on Billy\'s view of development, there is nothing there to develop in AB\'s case - no X-factor? JKool -- I think EVERYONE has the ABILITY to lead. I use the example of someone being born funny or comical, if you will. We\'ve all seen folks that aren\'t funny. But, do they have the ABILITY to make people laugh?? Sure they have the ABILITY. They just need to develop it. They might not become the best comics in the world, but they have the ABILITY to develop into very funny people. They can learn from other people or what have you. Samething as leadership. The can DEVELOP their leadership. They might not DEVELOP into the greatest leaders in the world. But, they can definately get better. For anyone to suggest that Aaron Brooks (or ANYONE else for that matter) doesn\'t have any leadership qualities needs to learn more about the subject of leadership. [Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-18-2004, 04:07 PM	#52
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership Billy, you\'ll see that I agree with you (right here in this thread). However, it is not clear to me that anyone whatsoever has the ability to develop any talent whatsoever. Take someone with a serious brain-defect for example - that person cannot develop into a neuro-surgeon, no matter how much they practice. While I agree 100% that AB could learn to be a leader, I don\'t think that this is JUST OBVIOUS based on the idea that many skills (comical, leaderly, or what-have-you) are developable.

05-18-2004, 04:09 PM	#53
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership Billy, There is a second problem. Even if everyone is born with the ABILITY to lead, it is not clear to me that at some point it doesn\'t simply become to hard for them to learn to lead. Think of the most shy person you know. Barring some really weird circumstances, I think it would simply take too long and too much for them to become leaders - thus, one might say that they will not be a leader, ever. Keep in mind, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here.

05-18-2004, 04:24 PM	#54
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership Billy, There is a second problem. Even if everyone is born with the ABILITY to lead, it is not clear to me that at some point it doesn\'t simply become to hard for them to learn to lead. Think of the most shy person you know. Barring some really weird circumstances, I think it would simply take too long and too much for them to become leaders - thus, one might say that they will not be a leader, ever. Keep in mind, I\'m playing devil\'s advocate here. Let\'s break it down JKool. If ANYONE can get JUST ONE person to follow them, then that means they have the ability to lead. That doesn\'t mean that they are the best leader in the world, it means they have the ability to lead. So, I think that proves EVERYONE has the ABILITY to lead. (Unless, of course, they have brain damage, like you suggested) Also something that is totally being overlooked is WHO are the folks that are being led. Ever heard the saying \"Too many chiefs and not enough indians?\" That saying suggests that some people are hard to lead. Take Terell Owens for example. He\'d be much tougher to lead than a lot of other players, cause he wants to be the leader. Back to the point I\'m trying to make. If a person can lead at least ONE person. Why not two? If two, why not 4, etc, etc.. Leadership, like everything else, CAN get better. To suggest that someone can\'t get better at being a leader is to suggest they don\'t have the ability to begin with. To suggest they don\'t have the ability to begin with means they don\'t have the ability to get even ONE person to follow them. So, when someone tells me that someone can be born without the ability to lead. I think that is a very short-sighted view and they really haven\'t done much research on the subject and are just repeating what they have heard.. [Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-18-2004, 05:11 PM	#55
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Aaron Brooks and leadership Being the natural born leader that I am and having developed that trait further, I\'d like to take the lead on this and suggest that this whole fricking topic DIE! DIE! DIE! [Edited on 18/5/2004 by Danno]

Latest Blogs
2023 New Orleans Saints: Training Camp Last Blog: 08-01-2023 By: MarchingOn Puck the Fro Browl! Last Blog: 02-05-2023 By: neugey CFP: "Just Keep Doing What You're Doing" Last Blog: 12-08-2022 By: neugey

05-18-2004, 05:18 PM	#56
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling?

05-18-2004, 05:21 PM	#57
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership How about the question raised, albeit indirectly, by Subguy? If not AB, then who should lead our offense. I\'m somewhat convinced by the following argument: it is more difficult for players at positions other than QB (aside from perhaps RB) to actually be the leader of the offense. Perhaps leadership by committee is possible?

05-18-2004, 05:22 PM	#58
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling? I got that same feeling myself. But, it was interesting to me. I even learned a few things, from all sides of the arguement. My conclusion: Leadership is instilled at birth to a certain degree. Everyone has the ability to lead. Some will just never be as good as others. Final conclusion: Brooks isn\'t a great leader. Probably never will be great at it. But, he can get better. [Edited on 18/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-18-2004, 06:00 PM	#59
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Aaron Brooks and leadership Perhaps we could call in Tony Robbins on all this leadership stuff. I\'ve watched his infomercials, so I know he\'d say it could be taught. :P In my most humble opinion we all have the ability. To say we\'re born with genes that either allow it or not is WAY short sighted, again, in my most humble opinion. Einstein wasn\'t just a poor student people, he was a poor MATH student.

05-18-2004, 08:18 PM	#60
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,720	Aaron Brooks and leadership Danno, are you suggesting that the topic of leadership doesn\'t interest you, beacause I got that feeling? I was hoping Pak or 08 would actually dedicate a new seperate section to this leadership topic, so I don\'t see it re-hashed for the 8,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,th time! Ooops, I need to take my affable pill.