Aaron Brooks and leadership

subguy · 05-18-2004, 10:46 PM

Sorry Danno......one more then stick a fork in me i\'m done. To say one is born a leader may be strong, but to say one is born with certain personality traits may be more accurate. Here are some points, think of AB and think of the rest of the team.....who is classified where, including the coaching staff.

The really critical issues are \"relationship building,\" \"communications skills\" and \"inspiration.\" Clearly, leadership ability is a combination of personal traits and acquired skills. And rising toward the top of the list of characteristics that make a good leader: Integrity.

Leadership doesn\'t exist for its own sake. It comes from a passionate desire to bring about some kind of change,

There are three main attributes which effective leaders must develop:
The right personal attitudes
The ability to motivate others;
The skills to build and maintain a team.

Good managers are sometimes leaders; good leaders are sometimes managers. The distinction is primarily between action and enabling.

GumboBC · 05-18-2004, 10:59 PM

Sorry Danno......one more then stick a fork in me i\'m done. To say one is born a leader may be strong, but to say one is born with certain personality traits may be more accurate. Here are some points, think of AB and think of the rest of the team.....who is classified where, including the coaching staff.

The really critical issues are \"relationship building,\" \"communications skills\" and \"inspiration.\" Clearly, leadership ability is a combination of personal traits and acquired skills. And rising toward the top of the list of characteristics that make a good leader: Integrity.

Leadership doesn\'t exist for its own sake. It comes from a passionate desire to bring about some kind of change,

There are three main attributes which effective leaders must develop:
The right personal attitudes
The ability to motivate others;
The skills to build and maintain a team.

Good managers are sometimes leaders; good leaders are sometimes managers. The distinction is primarily between action and enabling.

:thumbup:...................:thumbup:.........................:thumbup: Sounds logical to me. Very well said.

I know some get tired of certain subjects, but I think there was a lot of intelligent thoughts on this subject and really none of the \"Brooks Sucks\" stuff. That\'s what I like to see...

JKool · 05-18-2004, 11:06 PM

I gotta say guys, when I saw the thread I also thought... \"not again.\" But, I think it was fun this time around. I think that Billy and Subguy have summed it up nicely. I\'m pretty satisfied. Good discussion. You know, none of us will be able to resist when this very discussion comes up again at mid-season...

Danno, apologies.

What happened to all the new guys from right around draft time? I\'m only wondering, because we ought to make them read this thread, so we don\'t have to go through it again.

PS - Brooks sucks... jk

JKool · 05-18-2004, 11:09 PM

PPS - \"Affable\" is such a good word, isn\'t it.

GumboBC · 05-18-2004, 11:19 PM

What happened to all the new guys from right around draft time? I\'m only wondering, because we ought to make them read this thread, so we don\'t have to go through it again.

Not sure where the new guys are. You usually get more folks posting when something big is going on, such as the draft. I have noticed a LOT of new guys signing up, though.

Also, has anyone noticed B&G.net has been getting a face-lift? The home page looks different and I like the changes. You can see the last 3 or 4 topics of the forum on the home page. I think that will draw folks in here. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had noticed??

P.S -- I have to say, I have a lot of respect for the regular members here that post year round. Even though we have our different opinions, it makes it more fun during the regular season. Where\'s that tree ya\'ll been huggin\'??? :P

JKool · 05-19-2004, 04:21 AM

Billy, I like the new sig.

I gotta agree with ya, the regulars around here are what keep me reading this board (that and the good discussion). What happened to WhoDat; I figured he\'d get in more than his two cents on this topic (maybe he agrees with Danno and it has been done more than often enough)?

The list of great regulars here is too numerous to mention, but I have to say, as long as we\'re huggin\' trees (and mmmm that tasty, tasty granola), you guys have (1) broadened my perspective, (2) more than adequately challenged my views, and (3) helped to make the sport I love even more interesting! You\'re all terrific people (at least as far as I can tell, \'cause I\'m sure some of yas dirty, dirty bast--ds

).

Cheers.

PS - Gator, I hope the finals went well!
PPS - Danno, pills buddy, pills... besides, what else is there to talk about this time of year.
PPPS - I was tryin\' to think of something suitably antagonistic to get y\'all worked up, but I\'m just feelin\' too happy \'bout stuff these days.

WhoDat · 05-19-2004, 12:28 PM

Do you believe: (1) it is impossible for people who study people to discover what this X-factor is, OR (2) even if we uncovered what the X-factor is (and I have to say that it seems to me that it is more than one factor), it would be so inextricably linked to personality that if you didn\'t have it, no amount of training would get it for you?

Everything is learned WhoDat. When a human being is born, he really doesn\'t have a personaltiy to speak of. That personality is DEVELOPED!!

You\'re both absolutely right. A person develops most before the age of 3 and personality is largely determined before the age of 5 and generally by a person\'s parents or primary caretakers. I can go find studies if you would like. Point is, by the time you are cognizant of your ability to learn, your ability to become a natural leader has eroded.

Again, Brooks can learn to be a better manager. He can take classes and read books about good tactics as a \"leader\", but he will never have that thing that is intrinsic. C\'mon guys - are you really telling me that you believe that every person who is a good leader has knowingly learned how to lead well? Or you suggesting that every person can truly become a good leader? Trust me, I know a whole lot of people who couldn\'t convince a group of grammar school kids to follow them. You guys know this is true, you\'re arguing for the sake of argument.

I don\'t know how many more concessions I need to make. I\'ve said that AB can be a very good QB without leadership. I\'ve said he can go to the Pro Bowl without better skills as a leader. I\'ve said the Saints can win it all with him. You really want me to admit the guy has the ability to be a good leader? I\'ll tell you what, I\'ll admit that when certain members of this board admit that he is generally not a smart QB or an intelligent person in general. How\'s that?

GumboBC · 05-19-2004, 12:36 PM

I don\'t know how many more concessions I need to make. I\'ve said that AB can be a very good QB without leadership. I\'ve said he can go to the Pro Bowl without better skills as a leader. I\'ve said the Saints can win it all with him. You really want me to admit the guy has the ability to be a good leader? I\'ll tell you what, I\'ll admit that when certain members of this board admit that he is generally not a smart QB or an intelligent person in general. How\'s that?

I don\'t totally agree with you, but we\'re close!! Here was what I said. And that\'s my final answer Regis --

My conclusion: Leadership is instilled at birth to a certain degree. Everyone has the ability to lead. Some will just never be as good as others.

Final conclusion: Brooks isn\'t a great leader. Probably never will be great at it. But, he can get better.

[Edited on 19/5/2004 by GumboBC]

WhoDat · 05-19-2004, 12:56 PM

Sorry Billy, must have missed that. Then we agree. Amazing.

JKool · 05-19-2004, 03:57 PM

Again, Brooks can learn to be a better manager. He can take classes and read books about good tactics as a \"leader\", but he will never have that thing that is intrinsic. C\'mon guys - are you really telling me that you believe that every person who is a good leader has knowingly learned how to lead well? Or you suggesting that every person can truly become a good leader? Trust me, I know a whole lot of people who couldn\'t convince a group of grammar school kids to follow them. You guys know this is true, you\'re arguing for the sake of argument.

I don\'t exactly agree either, but WhoDat\'s position sounds pretty close. As noted in earlier posts, I don\'t think that you\'re done with your \"natural\" (whatever that means) leadership growth by the time you can learn (I\'m willing to let the psychologists hash this one out). IMPORTANTLY, though, I think we\'re all pretty darn close on this one (i.e. we\'re about as in agreement as we\'ve all ever been) - I\'m satisfied that the differences in positions here is probably merely verbal (description). How about that? Don\'t you feel like you\'ve actually discovered something new and had fun along the way? I know I do.

05-18-2004, 10:46 PM	#61
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Aaron Brooks and leadership Sorry Danno......one more then stick a fork in me i\'m done. To say one is born a leader may be strong, but to say one is born with certain personality traits may be more accurate. Here are some points, think of AB and think of the rest of the team.....who is classified where, including the coaching staff. The really critical issues are \"relationship building,\" \"communications skills\" and \"inspiration.\" Clearly, leadership ability is a combination of personal traits and acquired skills. And rising toward the top of the list of characteristics that make a good leader: Integrity. Leadership doesn\'t exist for its own sake. It comes from a passionate desire to bring about some kind of change, There are three main attributes which effective leaders must develop: The right personal attitudes The ability to motivate others; The skills to build and maintain a team. Good managers are sometimes leaders; good leaders are sometimes managers. The distinction is primarily between action and enabling.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

05-18-2004, 10:59 PM	#62
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership Sorry Danno......one more then stick a fork in me i\'m done. To say one is born a leader may be strong, but to say one is born with certain personality traits may be more accurate. Here are some points, think of AB and think of the rest of the team.....who is classified where, including the coaching staff. The really critical issues are \"relationship building,\" \"communications skills\" and \"inspiration.\" Clearly, leadership ability is a combination of personal traits and acquired skills. And rising toward the top of the list of characteristics that make a good leader: Integrity. Leadership doesn\'t exist for its own sake. It comes from a passionate desire to bring about some kind of change, There are three main attributes which effective leaders must develop: The right personal attitudes The ability to motivate others; The skills to build and maintain a team. Good managers are sometimes leaders; good leaders are sometimes managers. The distinction is primarily between action and enabling. :thumbup:...................:thumbup:.........................:thumbup: Sounds logical to me. Very well said. I know some get tired of certain subjects, but I think there was a lot of intelligent thoughts on this subject and really none of the \"Brooks Sucks\" stuff. That\'s what I like to see...
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-18-2004, 11:06 PM	#63
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership I gotta say guys, when I saw the thread I also thought... \"not again.\" But, I think it was fun this time around. I think that Billy and Subguy have summed it up nicely. I\'m pretty satisfied. Good discussion. You know, none of us will be able to resist when this very discussion comes up again at mid-season... Danno, apologies. What happened to all the new guys from right around draft time? I\'m only wondering, because we ought to make them read this thread, so we don\'t have to go through it again. PS - Brooks sucks... jk
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-18-2004, 11:09 PM	#64
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership PPS - \"Affable\" is such a good word, isn\'t it.

05-18-2004, 11:19 PM	#65
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership What happened to all the new guys from right around draft time? I\'m only wondering, because we ought to make them read this thread, so we don\'t have to go through it again. Not sure where the new guys are. You usually get more folks posting when something big is going on, such as the draft. I have noticed a LOT of new guys signing up, though. Also, has anyone noticed B&G.net has been getting a face-lift? The home page looks different and I like the changes. You can see the last 3 or 4 topics of the forum on the home page. I think that will draw folks in here. Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had noticed?? P.S -- I have to say, I have a lot of respect for the regular members here that post year round. Even though we have our different opinions, it makes it more fun during the regular season. Where\'s that tree ya\'ll been huggin\'??? :P
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

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05-19-2004, 04:21 AM	#66
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership Billy, I like the new sig. I gotta agree with ya, the regulars around here are what keep me reading this board (that and the good discussion). What happened to WhoDat; I figured he\'d get in more than his two cents on this topic (maybe he agrees with Danno and it has been done more than often enough)? The list of great regulars here is too numerous to mention, but I have to say, as long as we\'re huggin\' trees (and mmmm that tasty, tasty granola), you guys have (1) broadened my perspective, (2) more than adequately challenged my views, and (3) helped to make the sport I love even more interesting! You\'re all terrific people (at least as far as I can tell, \'cause I\'m sure some of yas dirty, dirty bast--ds ). Cheers. PS - Gator, I hope the finals went well! PPS - Danno, pills buddy, pills... besides, what else is there to talk about this time of year. PPPS - I was tryin\' to think of something suitably antagonistic to get y\'all worked up, but I\'m just feelin\' too happy \'bout stuff these days.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

05-19-2004, 12:28 PM	#67
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks and leadership Do you believe: (1) it is impossible for people who study people to discover what this X-factor is, OR (2) even if we uncovered what the X-factor is (and I have to say that it seems to me that it is more than one factor), it would be so inextricably linked to personality that if you didn\'t have it, no amount of training would get it for you? Everything is learned WhoDat. When a human being is born, he really doesn\'t have a personaltiy to speak of. That personality is DEVELOPED!! You\'re both absolutely right. A person develops most before the age of 3 and personality is largely determined before the age of 5 and generally by a person\'s parents or primary caretakers. I can go find studies if you would like. Point is, by the time you are cognizant of your ability to learn, your ability to become a natural leader has eroded. Again, Brooks can learn to be a better manager. He can take classes and read books about good tactics as a \"leader\", but he will never have that thing that is intrinsic. C\'mon guys - are you really telling me that you believe that every person who is a good leader has knowingly learned how to lead well? Or you suggesting that every person can truly become a good leader? Trust me, I know a whole lot of people who couldn\'t convince a group of grammar school kids to follow them. You guys know this is true, you\'re arguing for the sake of argument. I don\'t know how many more concessions I need to make. I\'ve said that AB can be a very good QB without leadership. I\'ve said he can go to the Pro Bowl without better skills as a leader. I\'ve said the Saints can win it all with him. You really want me to admit the guy has the ability to be a good leader? I\'ll tell you what, I\'ll admit that when certain members of this board admit that he is generally not a smart QB or an intelligent person in general. How\'s that?
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	\"Excuses, excuses, excuses. ThatÃ¢Â€Â™s all anyone ever makes for the New Orleans SaintsÃ¢Â€Â™ organization.\" - Eric Narcisse \"Being a Saints fan is almost like being addicted to crack,\" he said.[i]\"You know you should stop, but you just can\'t.\"

05-19-2004, 12:36 PM	#68
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616	Aaron Brooks and leadership I don\'t know how many more concessions I need to make. I\'ve said that AB can be a very good QB without leadership. I\'ve said he can go to the Pro Bowl without better skills as a leader. I\'ve said the Saints can win it all with him. You really want me to admit the guy has the ability to be a good leader? I\'ll tell you what, I\'ll admit that when certain members of this board admit that he is generally not a smart QB or an intelligent person in general. How\'s that? I don\'t totally agree with you, but we\'re close!! Here was what I said. And that\'s my final answer Regis -- My conclusion: Leadership is instilled at birth to a certain degree. Everyone has the ability to lead. Some will just never be as good as others. Final conclusion: Brooks isn\'t a great leader. Probably never will be great at it. But, he can get better. [Edited on 19/5/2004 by GumboBC]
GumboBC Banned Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,616

05-19-2004, 12:56 PM	#69
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631	Aaron Brooks and leadership Sorry Billy, must have missed that. Then we agree. Amazing.
WhoDat 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 5,631

05-19-2004, 03:57 PM	#70
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	Aaron Brooks and leadership Again, Brooks can learn to be a better manager. He can take classes and read books about good tactics as a \"leader\", but he will never have that thing that is intrinsic. C\'mon guys - are you really telling me that you believe that every person who is a good leader has knowingly learned how to lead well? Or you suggesting that every person can truly become a good leader? Trust me, I know a whole lot of people who couldn\'t convince a group of grammar school kids to follow them. You guys know this is true, you\'re arguing for the sake of argument. I don\'t exactly agree either, but WhoDat\'s position sounds pretty close. As noted in earlier posts, I don\'t think that you\'re done with your \"natural\" (whatever that means) leadership growth by the time you can learn (I\'m willing to let the psychologists hash this one out). IMPORTANTLY, though, I think we\'re all pretty darn close on this one (i.e. we\'re about as in agreement as we\'ve all ever been) - I\'m satisfied that the differences in positions here is probably merely verbal (description). How about that? Don\'t you feel like you\'ve actually discovered something new and had fun along the way? I know I do.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks