If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-02-2013, 10:13 AM

so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees cause we sure as crap don't have a running game not with Ingram back there I still don't know why they don't give the ball to Thomas more the guy's career average is 5 yrs a carry. Tell me why Thomas has gotten to run the ball 20 times 3 times in his career

I WILL SHUT UP I WONT RESPOND OR POST ANOTHER THING ELSE SORRY FOR HAVING A CONCERN

|Mitch| · 09-02-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees

I don't see this as a one man team, we have a lot of cap dedicated to Colston, Evans, Grubbs, Moore, Brees, soon to be Graham,

Now I ask you; who do you get rid of to allow more cap space for better defense?

SaintFanInATLHELL · 09-02-2013, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees cause we sure as crap don't have a running game not with Ingram back there I still don't know why they don't give the ball to Thomas more the guy's career average is 5 yrs a carry. Tell me why Thomas has gotten to run the ball 20 times 3 times in his career

It seems that you focus on the style as opposed to the substance. Yes the Saints running game was crappy last year. It has no always been though. The Saints have had a top 10 rushing attack in the last few years. Payton actually understands that the offense gets better when the running game is working.

As for Thomas and attempts, the answer is twofold. First and foremost, running back by committee with multiple personnel packages is a staple of Payton's offense. The objective is not to line up in the I formation and pound the defense. That's what's going to give you a 20 rush attempt per game rusher.

The second is more pointed. You quote 5 YPC for Thomas. Brees yards per attempt, not completions but attempts, has been 8.0 or better 4 times and never less than 7.0 in his entire tenure in New Orleans.

Another point is that Pierre's screen game (and it looks like the emerging one for Ingram) delivers a lot of impact even though they are not considered rushes.

I WILL SHUT UP I WONT RESPOND OR POST ANOTHER THING ELSE SORRY FOR HAVING A CONCERN

I'm sorry you are frustrated. I am actually enjoying the discussion. But honestly you are asking for a complete reworking of the franchise when recent history shows that the current basic configuration of this franchise has achieved quite a bit of success in the last 7 years: 4 10+ win seasons, 2 NFC championship appearances, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Championship.

The defense is a concern. If we had a consistent defense that could get off the field, not give up the big play, stand tough in the red zone, and take the ball away, then we'd be a contender to run away with the trophy. We are not there.

My point will continue to be that while the 2009 Saints defense clearly isn't a championship defense. Yet, that defense won the championship.

Can we get there again?

SFIAH

TheOak · 09-02-2013, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL

It seems that you focus on the style as opposed to the substance. Yes the Saints running game was crappy last year. It has no always been though. The Saints have had a top 10 rushing attack in the last few years. Payton actually understands that the offense gets better when the running game is working.

As for Thomas and attempts, the answer is twofold. First and foremost, running back by committee with multiple personnel packages is a staple of Payton's offense. The objective is not to line up in the I formation and pound the defense. That's what's going to give you a 20 rush attempt per game rusher.

The second is more pointed. You quote 5 YPC for Thomas. Brees yards per attempt, not completions but attempts, has been 8.0 or better 4 times and never less than 7.0 in his entire tenure in New Orleans.

Another point is that Pierre's screen game (and it looks like the emerging one for Ingram) delivers a lot of impact even though they are not considered rushes.

I'm sorry you are frustrated. I am actually enjoying the discussion. But honestly you are asking for a complete reworking of the franchise when recent history shows that the current basic configuration of this franchise has achieved quite a bit of success in the last 7 years: 4 10+ win seasons, 2 NFC championship appearances, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Championship.

The defense is a concern. If we had a consistent defense that could get off the field, not give up the big play, stand tough in the red zone, and take the ball away, then we'd be a contender to run away with the trophy. We are not there.

My point will continue to be that while the 2009 Saints defense clearly isn't a championship defense. Yet, that defense won the championship.

Can we get there again?

SFIAH

Thank You

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-02-2013, 10:32 AM

Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon

|Mitch| · 09-02-2013, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon

We've already been through this; We lose money if we cut Jenkins, Hawthorne, Smith, Vilma, Harper, Chamberlain... And then you have to spend more money to replace them...

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-02-2013, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by |Mitch|

We've already been through this; We lose money if we cut Jenkins, Hawthorne, Smith, Vilma, Harper, Chamberlain... And then you have to spend more money to replace them...

like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot

|Mitch| · 09-02-2013, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot

You don't understand, they will still have dead money next year as well. You do understand that the signing bonus is prorated, right?

TheOak · 09-02-2013, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot

I am going to try and help you so please read this a few times if you need to, a lot of these conversations have been hashed out a dozen times....

You CAN'T take the hits to cut those people. It's not that you don't want to, you can't and stay under the cap.

Ill run you through some quick numbers just on Roman Harper.
Pay 3.6M
Dead money if cut this year 6.5M

So by cutting Harper you have cut our remaining cap space from 5M to 2M.

Then you cut smith same scenario but frees up 700k so now you have 2.3M to find a starting replacements for both and nothing to spend when the next player gets hurt.

You also do not have enough money to field a practice squad.

Read this it will help.
http://nflsalarycapguru.com/

Dead Money is prorated bonus that accelerates to the year cut.

halloween 65 · 09-02-2013, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon

Believe me, I would love to get rid of Jenkins, Vilma, and Chamberlin. Hawthorn, Coleman and Harper I would keep,Smith is on I.R. and will not be here next year at all but the other 3 in particular Jenkins and Vilma have not played well for years and I have said it time and time again needed to go for sometimes now. Also if the Chargers can release Meachum and take a hit I feel we could also. I feel your pain but that's been typical throughout the years here, we keep players that are well past their prime or in Jenkins case just the plain stupid. Kind of like when you went to school and the teacher had their favorite pet.

09-02-2013, 10:13 AM	#1
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees cause we sure as crap don't have a running game not with Ingram back there I still don't know why they don't give the ball to Thomas more the guy's career average is 5 yrs a carry. Tell me why Thomas has gotten to run the ball 20 times 3 times in his career I WILL SHUT UP I WONT RESPOND OR POST ANOTHER THING ELSE SORRY FOR HAVING A CONCERN

09-02-2013, 10:27 AM	#2
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees I don't see this as a one man team, we have a lot of cap dedicated to Colston, Evans, Grubbs, Moore, Brees, soon to be Graham, Now I ask you; who do you get rid of to allow more cap space for better defense?

09-02-2013, 11:42 AM	#3
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,786	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN so your saying we have a one man team Drew Brees cause we sure as crap don't have a running game not with Ingram back there I still don't know why they don't give the ball to Thomas more the guy's career average is 5 yrs a carry. Tell me why Thomas has gotten to run the ball 20 times 3 times in his career It seems that you focus on the style as opposed to the substance. Yes the Saints running game was crappy last year. It has no always been though. The Saints have had a top 10 rushing attack in the last few years. Payton actually understands that the offense gets better when the running game is working. As for Thomas and attempts, the answer is twofold. First and foremost, running back by committee with multiple personnel packages is a staple of Payton's offense. The objective is not to line up in the I formation and pound the defense. That's what's going to give you a 20 rush attempt per game rusher. The second is more pointed. You quote 5 YPC for Thomas. Brees yards per attempt, not completions but attempts, has been 8.0 or better 4 times and never less than 7.0 in his entire tenure in New Orleans. Another point is that Pierre's screen game (and it looks like the emerging one for Ingram) delivers a lot of impact even though they are not considered rushes. I WILL SHUT UP I WONT RESPOND OR POST ANOTHER THING ELSE SORRY FOR HAVING A CONCERN I'm sorry you are frustrated. I am actually enjoying the discussion. But honestly you are asking for a complete reworking of the franchise when recent history shows that the current basic configuration of this franchise has achieved quite a bit of success in the last 7 years: 4 10+ win seasons, 2 NFC championship appearances, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Championship. The defense is a concern. If we had a consistent defense that could get off the field, not give up the big play, stand tough in the red zone, and take the ball away, then we'd be a contender to run away with the trophy. We are not there. My point will continue to be that while the 2009 Saints defense clearly isn't a championship defense. Yet, that defense won the championship. Can we get there again? SFIAH Rugby Saint II and TheOak like this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

09-02-2013, 01:35 PM	#4
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by SaintFanInATLHELL It seems that you focus on the style as opposed to the substance. Yes the Saints running game was crappy last year. It has no always been though. The Saints have had a top 10 rushing attack in the last few years. Payton actually understands that the offense gets better when the running game is working. As for Thomas and attempts, the answer is twofold. First and foremost, running back by committee with multiple personnel packages is a staple of Payton's offense. The objective is not to line up in the I formation and pound the defense. That's what's going to give you a 20 rush attempt per game rusher. The second is more pointed. You quote 5 YPC for Thomas. Brees yards per attempt, not completions but attempts, has been 8.0 or better 4 times and never less than 7.0 in his entire tenure in New Orleans. Another point is that Pierre's screen game (and it looks like the emerging one for Ingram) delivers a lot of impact even though they are not considered rushes. I'm sorry you are frustrated. I am actually enjoying the discussion. But honestly you are asking for a complete reworking of the franchise when recent history shows that the current basic configuration of this franchise has achieved quite a bit of success in the last 7 years: 4 10+ win seasons, 2 NFC championship appearances, 4 playoff appearances, 1 Championship. The defense is a concern. If we had a consistent defense that could get off the field, not give up the big play, stand tough in the red zone, and take the ball away, then we'd be a contender to run away with the trophy. We are not there. My point will continue to be that while the 2009 Saints defense clearly isn't a championship defense. Yet, that defense won the championship. Can we get there again? SFIAH Thank You

09-02-2013, 10:32 AM	#5
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon

09-02-2013, 10:34 AM	#6
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon We've already been through this; We lose money if we cut Jenkins, Hawthorne, Smith, Vilma, Harper, Chamberlain... And then you have to spend more money to replace them... Rugby Saint II likes this.

09-02-2013, 10:48 AM	#7
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by \|Mitch\| We've already been through this; We lose money if we cut Jenkins, Hawthorne, Smith, Vilma, Harper, Chamberlain... And then you have to spend more money to replace them... like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot

09-02-2013, 10:50 AM	#8
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot You don't understand, they will still have dead money next year as well. You do understand that the signing bonus is prorated, right?

09-02-2013, 01:33 PM	#9
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,051	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN like I said before take the hit bring in some rookie that maybe able to surprise and cut our losses. we know what we are getting from those guys which isn't much give somebody else a shot I am going to try and help you so please read this a few times if you need to, a lot of these conversations have been hashed out a dozen times.... You CAN'T take the hits to cut those people. It's not that you don't want to, you can't and stay under the cap. Ill run you through some quick numbers just on Roman Harper. Pay 3.6M Dead money if cut this year 6.5M So by cutting Harper you have cut our remaining cap space from 5M to 2M. Then you cut smith same scenario but frees up 700k so now you have 2.3M to find a starting replacements for both and nothing to spend when the next player gets hurt. You also do not have enough money to field a practice squad. Read this it will help. http://nflsalarycapguru.com/ Dead Money is prorated bonus that accelerates to the year cut.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-02-2013, 11:24 AM	#10
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN Jenkins ,vilma, w.smith , r,harper d.hawthorne .c.chamberlin K.colmon Believe me, I would love to get rid of Jenkins, Vilma, and Chamberlin. Hawthorn, Coleman and Harper I would keep,Smith is on I.R. and will not be here next year at all but the other 3 in particular Jenkins and Vilma have not played well for years and I have said it time and time again needed to go for sometimes now. Also if the Chargers can release Meachum and take a hit I feel we could also. I feel your pain but that's been typical throughout the years here, we keep players that are well past their prime or in Jenkins case just the plain stupid. Kind of like when you went to school and the teacher had their favorite pet.

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