Jimmy Graham Contract

AsylumGuido · 06-20-2014, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by lee909

spot on
Agents work for players, the union can only act as long as the player wishes.
Graham may be keeping quiet in the media but he knows whats going on as is happy for the NFLPA and Sexton to push this. He could just say get a deal done with the Saints or I sit/play out the tag and move as a FA next year. But he is happy for this to happen in the hope that he wins and has additional leverage on the long term deal.

Yes, agents work for the players, but they also tell the players before they agree to represent them that the player has to trust everything they are doing when it comes to negotiations. And the players listen. Especially the young ones hoping to get their first, and most likely only, big contract ever.

As for the union, they have far more influence on the players than you can imagine. Its primary concern is not of the individual player, but of the player population as a whole. It would be easy to convince the player that this is for the good of all players and they would not be lying. As the great philosopher Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

It is Pollyanna thinking to believe that this 27 year-old kid has any control over this situation with everything that is on the line. The NFL and the NFLPA are two of America's most powerful entities and are not capable of being told what they can and cannot do.

jeanpierre · 06-20-2014, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Wrong. I have followed Graham on Twitter since he joined the team. He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation. Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed." That is it.

Even his agent has not said anything about the WR angle as far as I can gather. That has been 100% the NFLPA. Graham has NEVER claimed he was a WR in any manner. The whole argument has been put forth by the NFLPA.

Guido, like your insightfullness, really do...

but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""...

So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career...

Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf...

Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this...

Utah_Saint · 06-20-2014, 08:02 PM

Where Jimmy Graham ranks among receivers - ESPN

AsylumGuido · 06-20-2014, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Guido, like your insightfullness, really do...

but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""...

So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career...

Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf...

Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this...

Read closely jeanpierre. Those two tweets that I posted referred to the act of the tag alone. The NFL did not declare his designation as a TE until later. He, as I correctly stated, has NEVER tweeted nor mentioned a word about his tag designation.

Ever.

And you state that " he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career..."

I challenge you here and now to find and post one. You type as they are so well known. Show them then.

I'm sorry, but you are either speaking out of misguided ignorance (not saying you are dumb or anything, just that you don't know the truth) or are making it up (which I really doubt).

halloween 65 · 06-20-2014, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Where Jimmy Graham ranks among receivers - ESPN

The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did.

AsylumGuido · 06-20-2014, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did.

That's because he isn't a WR and has never claimed to be. The article is all supposition. That is also why the NFLPA has very little chance of winning their case, much to the chagrin of Julius Thomas and Vernon Wells who are hanging on the outcome with bated breath.

jeanpierre · 06-23-2014, 06:22 AM

Guido...

Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...

The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same...

Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it...

And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer...

Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk

AsylumGuido · 06-23-2014, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Guido...

Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...

The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same...

Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it...

And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer...

Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk

but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...

If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't. That is the point I was trying to make. Some were saying that Graham had been talking about being designated as a WR. That is totally wrong. The two tweets I mentioned were the only times he has ever even anything about the off-season concerning personnel moves. Here are the exact tweets copied from his own timeline:

Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Feb 28

Confirming it's officially Franchisefriday... TAG ... I guess I'm it...

and this one which was in response to Sproles being traded and Moore getting released. You can also interpret it as referring to his being tagged.

Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Mar 7

Wow unbelievable. Shocked and disappointed on everything that's gone on this offseason.

Those are the only two times Graham or his agent ever said anything about the off-season moves whatsoever and neither time was referring to his being designated by the NFL as a TE.

So, what kind of "whacked arguments" are you claiming that Graham or Sexton have made? They haven't made any at all. The NFLPA is the only source of anything to do with that argument and they are making it on behalf of ALL TE's that are key receivers, not just Graham.

jeanpierre · 06-23-2014, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't.

Okay Brother, I understand...

(repost)
Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk

Jack Vegas · 06-23-2014, 12:15 PM

I do find it incredibly annoying that once again the league/owners is using the Saints to set some kind of a precedent ruling.

Just like the whole bounty farce. 90% of this whole thing has nothing to do with the Saints/Graham. It is the league trying to keep player salaries down and the union trying to exploit a loophole. And Graham's agent trying to make a bigger power/fame grab.

And we're once again the team that gets stuck in the middle. I kind of wish we would just trade Graham to the highest bidder and move on. Watson and Hill could probably replace 80% of Graham's offensive production right now.

View Poll Results: What should the Saints do re: Jimmy Graham?
Negotiate, Re-sign to Contract	56	62.92%
Franchise Tag (Exclusive)	17	19.10%
Franchise Tag (Non-Exclusive)	7	7.87%
Non-Tender Free Agent (Let Him Geaux)	9	10.11%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

06-20-2014, 09:27 AM	#421
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by lee909 spot on Agents work for players, the union can only act as long as the player wishes. Graham may be keeping quiet in the media but he knows whats going on as is happy for the NFLPA and Sexton to push this. He could just say get a deal done with the Saints or I sit/play out the tag and move as a FA next year. But he is happy for this to happen in the hope that he wins and has additional leverage on the long term deal. Yes, agents work for the players, but they also tell the players before they agree to represent them that the player has to trust everything they are doing when it comes to negotiations. And the players listen. Especially the young ones hoping to get their first, and most likely only, big contract ever. As for the union, they have far more influence on the players than you can imagine. Its primary concern is not of the individual player, but of the player population as a whole. It would be easy to convince the player that this is for the good of all players and they would not be lying. As the great philosopher Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." It is Pollyanna thinking to believe that this 27 year-old kid has any control over this situation with everything that is on the line. The NFL and the NFLPA are two of America's most powerful entities and are not capable of being told what they can and cannot do. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.

06-20-2014, 07:47 PM	#422
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Wrong. I have followed Graham on Twitter since he joined the team. He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation. Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed." That is it. Even his agent has not said anything about the WR angle as far as I can gather. That has been 100% the NFLPA. Graham has NEVER claimed he was a WR in any manner. The whole argument has been put forth by the NFLPA. Guido, like your insightfullness, really do... but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""... So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career... Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf... Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

06-20-2014, 08:02 PM	#423
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Where Jimmy Graham ranks among receivers - ESPN

06-20-2014, 11:21 PM	#424
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by jeanpierre Guido, like your insightfullness, really do... but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""... So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career... Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf... Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this... Read closely jeanpierre. Those two tweets that I posted referred to the act of the tag alone. The NFL did not declare his designation as a TE until later. He, as I correctly stated, has NEVER tweeted nor mentioned a word about his tag designation. Ever. And you state that " he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career..." I challenge you here and now to find and post one. You type as they are so well known. Show them then. I'm sorry, but you are either speaking out of misguided ignorance (not saying you are dumb or anything, just that you don't know the truth) or are making it up (which I really doubt).

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06-20-2014, 11:39 PM	#425
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Where Jimmy Graham ranks among receivers - ESPN The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did.

06-20-2014, 11:48 PM	#426
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by halloween 65 The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did. That's because he isn't a WR and has never claimed to be. The article is all supposition. That is also why the NFLPA has very little chance of winning their case, much to the chagrin of Julius Thomas and Vernon Wells who are hanging on the outcome with bated breath.

06-23-2014, 06:22 AM	#427
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Guido... Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did... The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same... Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it... And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer... Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs... NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement \| ProFootballTalk
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

06-23-2014, 12:00 PM	#428
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 24,395	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by jeanpierre Guido... Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did... The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same... Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it... And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer... Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs... NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement \| ProFootballTalk but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did... If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't. That is the point I was trying to make. Some were saying that Graham had been talking about being designated as a WR. That is totally wrong. The two tweets I mentioned were the only times he has ever even anything about the off-season concerning personnel moves. Here are the exact tweets copied from his own timeline: Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Feb 28 Confirming it's officially Franchisefriday... TAG ... I guess I'm it... and this one which was in response to Sproles being traded and Moore getting released. You can also interpret it as referring to his being tagged. Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Mar 7 Wow unbelievable. Shocked and disappointed on everything that's gone on this offseason. Those are the only two times Graham or his agent ever said anything about the off-season moves whatsoever and neither time was referring to his being designated by the NFL as a TE. So, what kind of "whacked arguments" are you claiming that Graham or Sexton have made? They haven't made any at all. The NFLPA is the only source of anything to do with that argument and they are making it on behalf of ALL TE's that are key receivers, not just Graham.

06-23-2014, 12:07 PM	#429
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract Originally Posted by AsylumGuido If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't. Okay Brother, I understand... (repost) Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs... NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement \| ProFootballTalk
	Last edited by jeanpierre; 06-23-2014 at 12:09 PM..

06-23-2014, 12:15 PM	#430
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254	Re: Jimmy Graham Contract I do find it incredibly annoying that once again the league/owners is using the Saints to set some kind of a precedent ruling. Just like the whole bounty farce. 90% of this whole thing has nothing to do with the Saints/Graham. It is the league trying to keep player salaries down and the union trying to exploit a loophole. And Graham's agent trying to make a bigger power/fame grab. And we're once again the team that gets stuck in the middle. I kind of wish we would just trade Graham to the highest bidder and move on. Watson and Hill could probably replace 80% of Graham's offensive production right now. jeanpierre likes this.
Jack Vegas 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,254

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