Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

"Saints extend contract of Jahri Evans by one year"

That must free up 4-5 mil in cap space?

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Wes Welker is the best bet. Bound to be cheaper than he should be so we can risk his career being cut short by concussions.

Suddenly, this proBowl WR just sucks? From starter at a fairly high level to not worth signing. Ha. Just like when he was ignored in the Draft? I think not.

All 32 teams are able to project this is the year he's no longer NFL starterz/ Ha, the dolts.

Great chance to replace Lance Moore, finally too.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Greg Jennings would be a decent signing!

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Cooks is the faster, speedier version of Welker and Moore...

I could see signing a 6' 2" 'Y' receiver and allow Cooks to move and work out of the slot on 3WR sets when he's not the Y in 2WR sets...

But to sign Welker, I think we've got more holes or depth needed at other positions like Interior OL, Defensive End, Inside Linebacker...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Wes Welker was a true warrior but he should consider walking away from the game while he can. Those concussions :bang: have come far too often for him over the last few seasons.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

radio rumor here in new england is the pats are really looking into signing Pierre Thomas

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

As much as im no fan of them,i hope they do. He has plenty left in the tank and deserves to be on a good team

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Redskins also are in on Pierre Thomas...

I'd hope he signs with the Pats before the Redskins...

It'd break my heart to see him sign with you know who...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

I feel like we need another speedster to take the top off the defense with Cooks. That would open the middle up again where Drew is so accurate.:doh:

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

And so the Saints FO gives you Joe Morgan...

I Don't hate on Dorsett out of Miami, but I sure hope that Payton-Loomis show down at the U was for show...

Those first two rounds need to geaux defense unless Scherff somehow falls...

Besides, we now have Spiller who will tear those teams up with wheel routes down the outside seam...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Was hoping we could have found another interior offensive lineman at the Veteran's Combine to push things for camp...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

I don't know why people continue to pay any attention to PFF. It's just some dude's with their own convoluted opinions, most of which make little to no sense. There is nothing scientific about these "rankings".

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Your right... I guess the gain in popularity with their stats and constant mention of PFF in almost every major sports coverage outlet should just be ignored.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

PFT’s 2015 All-Unemployed Team | ProFootballTalk

Slim pickins'...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

That's right genius. They SHOULD be ignored, as their rating system far more often than not fails to make valid observations of a player. Yet people (like you apparently) continue to buy into it just because. How many Rating services are out there for the NFL? Where else would people go if they wanted that kind of information? Of course it's popular when they have little to no competition.

And because people want to feel like they know everything, they accept what they read without bothering to actually watch the player in question and see if he really lives up to his PFF ranking.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Except for the players and coaches who endorse PFF for how accurate they are.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

PFF can shove it, I'll continue to make judgments with my own two eyes which is why I'd like to see a replacement for Strief ASAP

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Name me 1 example of how you think it fails to make a valid observation...

I suggest you read this: https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Focus on this section:
"How subjective is the Grading?

Many people say that as soon as you start grading, you bring subjectivity into your work. Obviously, to some degree, that’s true.

However, there’s also subjectivity around whether a play was a QB run for negative yardage or a sack, if an assist on a tackle should be awarded and if a catch was dropped or not. Sure, you can come up with a set of rules to determine which is which, but in the end, at the borderline between one and the other, it’s always subjective. It comes down to a judgment call.

The real trick of grading is to define a clear set of rules, encompassing each type of play. If your rules are thorough and precise enough, the answers just fall out. It becomes as easy as determining the dropped pass that hit the TE right between the numbers.

Statistics in their raw form are considered objective. But in our opinion, with the small number of NFL games played each season, raw stats are very often unintelligent. If a QB throws three interceptions in a game but one came from a dropped pass, another from a WR running a poor route and a third on a Hail Mary at the end of the half, it skews his stats by far too great an amount to be useful. Our grading allows us to bring some intelligence to the raw numbers and with many different sets of eyes getting a look at each game, we’re able to avoid the individual biases that may arise if only one person was responsible for grading the game."

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

What players or coaches would that be? Coaches have their own grades, and I'm sure any player who ranks high on a list will praise it, and those who rank low will say it's wrong. That's not a legitimate judgement, in my opinion.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Here's one example for you. A random PFF ranking list from the 2013 season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...top-to-bottom/

You can go on and on about raw stats and all of that... I know that stats don't tell the whole story, I'm not some football noob. I know if a guy has 100 plus tackles that doesn't tell the story of how many of them are just garbage -pile on at the end of the play- assisted tackles, and it also doesn't tell of missed tackles. I can tell that with my own eyes. Everyone can. Vinny Testeverde is one of the all time leaders in passing yards, but won't ever be a Hall of Famer because people who watched him know that he was just a compiler. He was average at best.

That list above that I gave has some really egregious rankings. Colston makes the list, but no Dez Bryant, as a commenter on the page points out, and Tom Brady (who I hate giving credit, but c'mon) is 90th on that list behind the likes of Drew Brees and Philip Rivers at his own position... neither of those guys have been near the same players the past couple years. Josh Gordon, who blew away the NFL in the 14 games he played that year ranks 74th?

And I'm constantly hearing about how Strief supposedly ranks in the top end of his position, when anyone who has watched him play knows that our tackles are always causing drew to run for his life. Does PFF take into account the amount of sacks he's saved them? You'd think that would be a pretty easy thing to grade, but their rankings don't seem to reflect it.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

"Do NFL teams use your grades?

Yes. We have a number of direct clients within the NFL that use our data for personnel decisions and game management, we also have non-clients that have used our grades as an internal check against their own pro scouts. Most, if not all, teams have at least the bare minimum website subscription.

Our grades and stats are also heavily involved in contract negotiations as agents and front offices use our data to build their case either for or against potential free agents."

You should read the whole page: https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

You completely contradict yourself here. First paragraph you state stats don't tell the whole story, but you point out guys that "blew the league away" not ranking higher than others?


PFF is not a stats based rating site. Three different people watch every game and every player's movement, then they give them a positive, neutral or negative rating on each play.

I can tell by your assertions that you clearly didn't read this in it's entirety: https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

The answer to your last sentence in your last paragraph is in the page I linked and it's your choice not to educate yourself.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

How is that a contradiction? I didn't use stats. I said "blew away the league". That's an observation, and one that is undeniable. Are you actually going to sit in your wanna be front office chair and tell me that what Josh Gordon did that year was because of his great QB? Well let's trade Drew to the Texans for Brian Hoyer right now!

I am a very educated person, but thanks for the advice, professor. I Know what a grade is. I know that each play is given an individual grade based on how they view it. It's why I said in an earlier post that you have to use the eyes to tell the difference between garbage stats and players who legitimately produce. I'm looking at the rankings they have given, based on THEIR grades, and I'm calling them ridiculous.

You are telling me that because I don't agree with a ranking that I haven't read or educated myself, when I know exactly how the system works. It's a system that is entirely based on opinion just like yours or mine. Grades are given out based on what these people think. The grades don't match the performance in many cases. You can disagree with that all you want, but don't accuse me of something without first understanding my point. You are getting awfully worked up about something I said that had nothing to do with you.

And if any scouts are using this information, they are pretty useless. It is the job of the scouts to do their own research, not ask somebody else what they think. How many bad decisions are made in the NFL every year, personnel-wise? How has PFF changed anything? It is the choice of each organization on how they will gather information, and how well they interpret what they see on the field. There are good choices and decisions, and there are terrible one's. PFF is just a singular option. It is not the NFL's version of the gospel, which is basically how you are painting it to be, by taking offense to my disagreement.

You seem to have missed the point of my very first post in this thread. It wasn't a question of WHOM uses this information, but WHY do they? Any opinion you want to form on my stance is purely subjective, as is mine. I'm calling it crap based on what I see. Your defense of it is that some teams use it. But what information do you have that says they're giving out good info? I'd bet it's very hit and miss. which is why I say, let's just watch and see what players do, instead of worrying about how PFF grades players. But hey, that's just me. Don't let me ruin your enjoyment.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Wisniewski signing a 1 year 2,5M contract with the Jags?!

There must be something wrong with the guy to have so many teams pass on him and to eventually sign for that little.

I would've thought at that price he would've provided some nice depth at the interior of the O-line.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

It was kept pretty quiet he had off-season shoulder surgery, but it finally leaked , probably by way of Seattle, who was trying to sign him at a discount...

Jaguars sign C Stefen Wisniewski, who had visited Seahawks | The Seattle Times

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Of course their rankings are subjective, as is any scouts rating of a player. The key difference with PFF being the rating is from a scouting perspective based on every single play. Normal individuals, unless being paid to do so, will not watch every player through the entirety of the game. Thus, PFF comes into play for those of us that want a more educated opinion of players we don't watch continuously.

You call out PFF ratings of players over Gordon, but did you watch every single snap Gordon took that year, even when it was a running play or he didn't get a pass thrown his way? No, of course you didn't, but 3 people from PFF did and came up with a cumulative rating. Just like your example of Colston and Dez, Colston may not have had the stats Dez did but that doesn't paint the whole picture, and apparently you can't grasp that.

No one is forcing you to look at PFF ratings. No one is claiming them to be perfect, however they are very useful in educating yourself about players you don't watch consistently. In addition, PFF provides some alternative opinions of players you do watch on a consistent basis to avoid your own bais.

To claim they are not useful, or should be ignored is naive.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Guess DE Corey Wootton is going to wait to sign a vet minimum contract if that's his best offer...

Can't say I don't blame him, but it'd be nice if we had the cap room to throw him a little more to get him in to acclimate, practice...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Wait to long and somebody else will take the contract or a rookie will get drafted instead

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Greg Jennings to Miami... 2 years/$8 million. Don't know the guaranteed $ but at first glance they can have him for that price.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Remember that sorry rap song by 9 toed Deion Sanders? ... "it must be the money!". I expect the Saints scouts to draft a WR within the 1st 3 rounds of next week's draft.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

In case you missed this, apparently we upset the Dark Lord...

Report: Patriots Tried To Sign C.J. Spiller | SportsGrid

Bill Simmons doesn't disappoint...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Free Agency: Five Biggest Losses
Kevin Connaghan | March 27, 2015

[Excerpt]

Jimmy Graham, TE (New Orleans Saints)

There is method behind the madness in New Orleans. Unsettled, unwanted or expensive players have been shipped out, and in their place the team has gathered extra draft collateral. If used wisely, that should result in an influx of young, and very affordable talent. It’s conceivable that the Saints could enter the 2015 season at least as talented as they were at every position in 2014, well every position bar one, tight end.

Jimmy Graham is an elite receiving tight end, and the Saints hit a home run when they drafted him in the third round in 2010. With few attractive options left in free agency, and a seemingly weak draft for tight ends, the team must either manage to catch lightning in a bottle once again, or find a way to compensate for the loss through increased production from other facets of the offense.

Graham flashed talent toward the end of his rookie season, then starred over the four seasons since, leading all tight ends as a receiver in 2013 with a +18.2 grade. In those four years Graham has more catches (371), receiving yards (4606) and receiving touchdowns (49) than any other Saint, catching 28.8% of all touchdowns thrown by Drew Brees in that span. That’s is a significant amount of production to lose.

Source: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...iggest-losses/

You see, I look at the TD% and see it as an opportunity for this offense to become unpredictable, again...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

STRENGTHS
Becoming a very reliable blocker. Is tough enough and physical enough to be a play-side blocking tight end on zone runs. Bends and explodes from hips into his targets and sustains with a good base. Will drive smaller linebackers off the line of scrimmage in run game. Has lined up in-line, slot and as an H-back. Has the physical build and enough quickness to threaten the seam. Turns head and locates the ball quickly. Can make contested catches. Has NFL run-after-catch ability. At home in a physical matchup. Has long arms and big hands.

STRENGTHS
Becoming a very reliable blocker. Is tough enough and physical enough to be a play-side blocking tight end on zone runs. Bends and explodes from hips into his targets and sustains with a good base. Will drive smaller linebackers off the line of scrimmage in run game. Has lined up in-line, slot and as an H-back. Has the physical build and enough quickness to threaten the seam. Turns head and locates the ball quickly. Can make contested catches. Has NFL run-after-catch ability. At home in a physical matchup. Has long arms and big hands.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Why was Jimmy Graham successful?? Sean Payton and Drew Brees that's why. The guy was nobody entering the league. It's not like we were gifted some transcendent talent who blessed us with his abilities. I for one say thank god our offense won't revolve around our TE anymore. I was fed up with seeing jump balls heaved into triple coverage.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Are you implying Graham won't be successful in Seattle with Carroll and Wilson?

I'm guessing he will be even more successful with Lynch/Wilson being a significant running threat.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Clive Walford is a Jimmy Kleinsasser H-Back type...

I'd rather wait and take a big guy like Blake Bell who's got a higher ceiling...

Or Brian Parker out of the University of Albany...

They've got the size that Clive doesn't; and it seems Clive is like Jimmy - he just wants to catch balls...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

@ Mitch... Nah I'm not saying he won't be successful in Seattle. Payton and Brees gave him the knowledge and tools to be successful and they'll do that again with whomever is on the field next season. Jimmy Graham didn't make the Saints better... The Saints made Jimmy Graham better.

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

I disagree somewhat; there is no way possible anyone can "honestly" say that Jimmy Graham did not make the Saints better.

And it's not like the Saints taught him everything he needed to be successful. He had the "tools" from his prior basketball career, he would have been successful with any QB who could have got him the ball...

Doesn't matter though, I'll take the extra first round pick over any player any day...

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

That's true Mitch... There's no way to know. Extra first round pick though I'll take it!

Re: PFF 2015 free agents
 

Well anyone can buy a tool belt with a hammer, some screw drivers and a measuring tape...

...but that doesn't make him a carpenter...

Saints gambled on him in the third (he was projected a fifth rounder at best because of only one year playing)...

And he came on in the second half of his rookie year...

Think the Saints had alot to do with it...

And the real tell is gonna be what happens in Seattle...