Anyone who thought that the holdup was rookie contracts are whatever are operating with flawed assumptions. The two flawed assumptions that I've consistently seen over the last 6 months:

1. That this is some type of restructure that the team controls. It's not. It's a negotiation for a new contract. It's just that the Saints can do the extension now because Brees is under contract until next March. After that all bets are off.

2. That Brees is going to see this from a Saints Fan perspective. So somehow the option of accepting a low ball offer, or that there's no way he's going to play elsewhere are part of the equation. This is going to be Brees' last major contract. Up until this moment he is playing at an elite level. He is worth every penny of market value and has 10+ years of Hall of Fame level evidence to show for it.

There is nothing easy about this. Brees' last contract was $100 million, $60 million guaranteed. We all see the $30 million cap number for this year as the residual of that contract. The next one is going to average $25 million a year with much of it guaranteed. That's a tough pill to swallow for the Saints.



The problem isn't that it's a blank check. The problem is that market rate seems like a blank check. Just think about the fact that Luck signed for 6 years/ $140 million/ $47 million guaranteed coming off a dismal season where he missed more than half the season. Where Von Miller, who isn't even a QB, just got $70 million in guaranteed dollars. That's the market. If the Saints choose not to pay it, some other team certainly will.


I agree to a point. As long as there is a clear understanding that a fair deal for the player is going to have to near market rate, and that the guaranteed money will need to be upped in order to shorten the contract length. Brees isn't likely to get a Luck Type contract because few believe he'll be here 5 or 6 more years after 2016 to play. That's moving into George Blanda territory. Pretty much if a 3 year contract is on the table, then $70-$75 million is the number, and it'll likely have to be all (or nearly all) guaranteed.

As for the money for the rest of the squad, Loomis has been playing the accounting game based on the fact that the cap is going to keep rising. Brees money hasn't kept the Saints from outlaying dollars to Byrd, or Fleener, or fixing Westbank's contract. And that cap is going to keep growing. In fact the Saints will likely save over $5 million on this year's cap if they get a deal done as Brees' cap hit is at $30 million. An extension can put $40 million in Brees pocket and lower the cap to under $25 million at the same time.

Finally, be sure that stadium dollars are not the driving engine for paying the salaries of players. The vast bulk of the dollars are from TV contracts. And expect those contracts to keep pushing the cap, and player salaries because NFL football is like printing money for these networks and their advertisers.

SFIAH

I'm well aware of market value. It's been discussed for years and years, and is a secret to no one, at this point. But market "value" is mostly a residual consequence of teams being desperate and over paying. Once they over pay, the bar is set. And when that happens every decent QB, not just the elite, want to negotiate at or above that number, because the precedent is already set that teams will do anything to have stability at the QB position.

Neither Drew nor any other of these guys with 100 million plus contracts have actually "earned" that money. Nothing they do is that important when you compare it to other jobs around the world.

I just want to make sure and point out that there are 32 teams with like 60 players each so that means that there are roughly 2,000 people in the entire world that can play in the NFL. Show me another job where only 2000 people in the entire world can do it. By the way, being one of those 2000 means you work very hard. So you decide which jobs deserve which money...I see, you're the smartest guy in the room and you will decide verse say the marketplace.

Just saw you went to the same place that I did. It is plain as day to anyone that understands basic economics. Every commodity is always worth exactly what the consumer is willing to pay. In the NFL the consumer is the team owner. We are simply customers of that consumer's business. We should have no more concern in what a player gets paid than we would be concerned about what the lady that dry cleans our pants makes.

Why can't people understand something so basic?

I just want to make sure and point out that there are 32 teams with like 60 players each so that means that there are roughly 2,000 people in the entire world that can play in the NFL. Show me another job where only 2000 people in the entire world can do it. By the way, being one of those 2000 means you work very hard. So you decide which jobs deserve which money...I see, you're the smartest guy in the room and you will decide verse say the marketplace.

In no way do I pretend to be the smartest guy in the room. You are basing your argument on market value within the league. That's the only reason players make the kind of money they make. What part of the word "important" did you not understand? You and others are using the lame "you're worth whatever someone wants to pay you" logic. I'm not begrudging Brees for the money he makes, despite the fact that I think his contract has been an albatross, and it would be nice if he could make a few concessions. Some players do that, and some don't.

But my point has nothing to do with market value. I said that nothing these players do is as important as some of the other jobs out there.

Just so YOU know, Millions of people through the years have fought and died, and made peanuts in the process, so that you and those who agree with you can sit here and have the lame opinion that football players are more important because there are fewer of them.

Chew on that for a minute, smart guy.

My whole point was that nobody "owes" Drew anything. If they want to pay him whatever he wants, that's them. If they don't, and he leaves, oh well. People keep talking like it would be disrespectful to him to ask him to take a little less than he could get elsewhere. It's up to Drew if he'd be willing to do that, but I'll stand by the Saints on this one, if they set a limit on what they are willing to pay. I don't know how it's going to play out in the end. I'm simply giving my opinion. Unlike some of you who have thought all off-season that you knew what was coming. That kind of crap is what deserves the "smartest guy in the room" comment.

This is why you're an absolute idiot...important has nothing to do with it. It is all about what someone is willing to pay you. Whether you like that or agree with that is utterly irrelevant. When you purchase a team you can spend your money how you choose, but since you do not own the Saints you have literally no say in how they conduct their business.

Next, people choose to spend money on the Saints. It is their choice and you or I have absolutely no ability to dictate to others how they spend their money. That is the reason that Drew can be paid this amount of money because people choose to purchase the product.

You discussing importance is asinine. People aren't paid by their importance, they're paid per their market value because the business earner determines what their value is based off of what they can do for them.

It is like you exist in some Utopian wet ****ing dream instead of reality

You know what? 'guido and I argue a lot, but I have to say after reading this comment that you are the one I have the least amount of respect for on this board. Calling me an idiot is classless and childish. But I'm a big boy, I can handle your name calling.

The bigger reason is that you are a complete waffler. One day you're on one side of this subject and the next day you do a complete 180. When the season starts and Drew has a bad game, you'll say that you love Drew but he might be nearing the end. So I'm not sure what makes you think you are qualified to even make a judgement against me.

And since you want to resort to nastiness, I won't stoop to your level, but I will point something out. You have shown zero ability to understand anything I have said. You're beating a dead horse, and just randomly telling anyone you disagree with that they have no clue, or in this case calling me an idiot. You don't understand any part of what I'm trying to say. All you seem to get out of it is that I'm a massive Brees hater (which is ridiculous) and therefore everything I say is just stupid, and you don't read anything else. Sound about right?

So let me make it clear, one more time, since you keep ignoring it. I'm not talking about the business aspect of what a player "deserves" or is "worth". I wouldn't pay Drew more than 25 million if it were up to me, which of course it isn't. But some have suggested that he deserves whatever he wants because of what he has meant, and blah blah. That makes me nauseated, considering what he's already made. That's why I pointed out that nothing these athletes do is so important that we should feel indebted to them and just pay whatever. I can think of people who deserve much more and don't get it. SOOOO, with that in mind I don't get caught up in what Drew has done. I appreciate what he has done. But I think if you are the Saints it might not be wise to go higher than 25 million, or to give him many years.

And here's the thing... They might not. We just don't know what kind of money is being discussed. It's purely hypothetical. All of our discussion is hypothetical. Does that make sense?

By the way, I'm not "dictating" what the Saints should spend. I'm giving my opinion. For all you know, the Saints might have the same numbers in their collective heads that I have, or close to it. Common sense tells you there is only so much you can pay any one player. Either they don't agree with his asking price, or perhaps waiting to see how he performs this year (letting him hit the open market could allow a very QB hungry team to offer Brees an astronomical number). Either way, that tells you the Saints obviously have some hang up, which makes any assumption that the Saints will automatically pay him market value a bit premature.

I live in no alternate reality or "wet dream". It was a simple side bar comment that you decided to blow up into a toxic nuclear catastrophe. Freaking chill out.

I am a consistent supporter of Brees, I don't waffle. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about or you're making it up. He hasn't slowed down a bit. Matter of fact he had more than 4800 yards last year and he missed a game. He had a staggering 68% completion rate and threw 32 td's to 11 int's. I have never once said you like or dislike Brees because I could care less. This was about what he deserves to be paid per the market.

You're certainly jealous of what athletes make and that is kind of sad. 'oh they don't deserve it wah wah." "I would do their job any day of the week, all they do is play a game, wah wah".
Yeah you can't do their job and that is why you don't earn what they do, but cry a little more about how unfair it is, and your job is more important. Boo Hoo.

I'm well aware of market value. It's been discussed for years and years, and is a secret to no one, at this point. But market "value" is mostly a residual consequence of teams being desperate and over paying. Once they over pay, the bar is set. And when that happens every decent QB, not just the elite, want to negotiate at or above that number, because the precedent is already set that teams will do anything to have stability at the QB position.

Neither Drew nor any other of these guys with 100 million plus contracts have actually "earned" that money. Nothing they do is that important when you compare it to other jobs around the world. So I get highly annoyed by this idea that the team owes Drew something extra because market value has risen since his last deal. They don't owe him anything, he has made plenty. But I get it from his perspective that he can't just take a low ball offer when he could make more elsewhere. So I'm not gonna toilet paper his house if he should leave. It's business. But the Saints have to be reasonable. They can't pay a guy his age like he's 25.

I hear what you are saying about the cap rising, and I have heard that many times from people defending Loomis' tactics. You mentioned a couple players whom the team has signed, but the problem is it's always just a player here, and a player there, each year. I'll admit that I wanted Byrd before he came here, but when I actually saw the contract I was blown away. It was extremely ill-advised to put that much into one player with as many problems as they needed to address on defense.

There never seems to be enough money to go around in free agency. And when they do sign people, it's usually a bad move. I think they over paid for Fleener, for example, but that's just my opinion. It's hard to build through the draft alone. There are so many busts. You need to have a few proven commodities. Many of the key players who were on the '09 team were not drafted by the Saints.

For the past several years Loomis has been deferring money, which has only served to keep the team out of the penalty. I don't consider that very smart business.