Fire Sean Payton

dizzle88 · 10-03-2016, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

I missed the game, and I don't know what we did to stop Rivers at the end, but that is the part that impresses me. Given the way our defense plays and the NFL goes, you figure we have about a 25% of keeping the Chargers out of Field Goal range in the two-minute drill. Somehow we did it, defense must have showed up big time.

1st down - Nick Fairley got his second sack of the game

2nd down - Rivers making changes at the line, center snaps it past him, rivers recovers.

3rd down - Could have been a backbreaker for us, very near 24 yard completion on 3rd and 22. Sterling Moore gets a finger tip on it, knocks off Inmans concentration and he misjudges the catch. Tip drill dropped by 2 saints defenders.

4th down - Rivers throws deep right side and B.W Webb is standing at the first down marker, jumps and snags it.

burningmetal · 10-03-2016, 09:33 AM

I think all those who are using the injuries to excuse Sean are perhaps missing the point. The VAST majority of injuries have been on defense. Sean is an offensive guy. And it seems that if Brees isn't on top of his game we are losing. The play calling became rather predictable over time. I don't see where Sean is some great game planner, anymore. We lost one game this year because of bad offense, and yesterday was almost a second one, if not for the two turnovers deep in Charger territory.

I'm not calling for his head right now. I'm going to let the season play out before I give a definitive opinion on his future. But I get the growing doubt towards Payton, and I don't disagree with it.

There was a time when I used to expect loses, and any win was awesome. That was a long time ago. People are free to celebrate as much as they want over this. That's fine. I'm not going to get in anyone's ear and yell at them for that. But I have a tendency to kind of look at each game for what it is. If it wasn't impressive I'll say so. I'm still glad we won, and I clapped my hands and cheered while watching it. But that doesn't change what I saw for the majority of the game, and I don't get the hate towards giving an honest assessment of the game.

I'm not a paid analyst. It's just a natural thing for some of us to analyze. More time is spent arguing about opinion's than about football, these days.

K Major · 10-03-2016, 09:45 AM

Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ...

The Saints were 3rd in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.

Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM.

No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man.

burningmetal · 10-03-2016, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ...

The Saints were 3rd in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.

Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM.

No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man.

I definitely put a lot of the blame on Loomis, as well. No doubt about that. And I agree that he shouldn't be a GM for two different teams, also.

It's ridiculous. The guy is drinking too much of his own kool-aid. And Benson was nuts to offer him that opportunity.

The Dude · 10-03-2016, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ...

The Saints were 3rd in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.

Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM.

No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man.

It wasn't that bad. Our line is at least a little bit better and our starting CBs were more than capable. Our problem was depth. We are seeing the result of that. With Breaux and Lewis back there we would be tough to score on. With Ellerbie and Rankins our front would be better.
Before our injuries their would have been plenty of defenses worse than us.

K Major · 10-03-2016, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

It wasn't that bad. Our line is at least a little bit better and our starting CBs were more than capable. Our problem was depth. We are seeing the result of that. With Breaux and Lewis back there we would be tough to score on. With Ellerbie and Rankins our front would be better.
Before our injuries their would have been plenty of defenses worse than us.

Dude,
Wasn't that bad? After week #1 of the season the Saints ranked :

#31st in total defense.
#28th in passing defense.
#25th in rushing defense.

This defense has been bad for a while. Multiple seasons of anemic, last place rankings. At some point you can't keep pointing fingers at injuries.

The Dude · 10-03-2016, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Dude,
Wasn't that bad? After week #1 of the season the Saints ranked :

#31st in total defense.
#28th in passing defense.
#25th in rushing defense.

This defense has been bad for a while. Multiple seasons of anemic, last place rankings. At some point you can't keep pointing fingers at injuries.

BEFORE injuries. We lost Lewis and 2 other starters before the season started. We looked pretty solid going in. We would have had what looks to be solid backups too unless ALL starters were injured which is exactly what happened

burningmetal · 10-03-2016, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Dude

BEFORE injuries. We lost Lewis and 2 other starters before the season started. We looked pretty solid going in. We would have had what looks to be solid backups too unless ALL starters were injured which is exactly what happened

We HOPED the defense was better coming in. But you're talking about guys who were part of a horrible defense a year ago. You can't say affirmatively that we were looking better coming in. I had my hopes just like anybody else. But until this regime proves they can develop a defense, I'm not going to sit here and say we'd have a good defense without injuries. We'd be better at corner, for sure. But without a consistent pass rush, even better cornerbacks can't hold up.

Breaux and Ellerbe are impact guys. I haven't seen enough of P.J. Williams, and haven't seen any of Rankins. Kikaha flashed his quickness last year, but was a one trick pony who got easily fazed out too often. So it's really difficult to judge where we'd be. I look forward to getting at least some of them back to see what happens. In the mean time, the offense is going to have to suck it up. They've been very inconsistent so far.

Rugby Saint II · 10-03-2016, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ...

The Saints were 3rd in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.

Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM.

No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man.

Benson needs to limit Loomis to cap management and stay away from player evaluation and acquisition. Oh, and stop multi tasking the Pelicans and Saints. Pick one and stay there! Then Benson needs to limit Payton's power tremendously. I realize Ireland has been good at evaluating defense but has been hog tied by scheme changes. We have already cleaned house in the scouting department. Give the existing plan time to develop.

Still, I believe it's time for a fresh perspective.

Euphoria · 10-03-2016, 12:23 PM

We don't have debth because we don't have cap... thanks to Bree's

10-03-2016, 09:33 AM	#2
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fire Sean Payton I think all those who are using the injuries to excuse Sean are perhaps missing the point. The VAST majority of injuries have been on defense. Sean is an offensive guy. And it seems that if Brees isn't on top of his game we are losing. The play calling became rather predictable over time. I don't see where Sean is some great game planner, anymore. We lost one game this year because of bad offense, and yesterday was almost a second one, if not for the two turnovers deep in Charger territory. I'm not calling for his head right now. I'm going to let the season play out before I give a definitive opinion on his future. But I get the growing doubt towards Payton, and I don't disagree with it. There was a time when I used to expect loses, and any win was awesome. That was a long time ago. People are free to celebrate as much as they want over this. That's fine. I'm not going to get in anyone's ear and yell at them for that. But I have a tendency to kind of look at each game for what it is. If it wasn't impressive I'll say so. I'm still glad we won, and I clapped my hands and cheered while watching it. But that doesn't change what I saw for the majority of the game, and I don't get the hate towards giving an honest assessment of the game. I'm not a paid analyst. It's just a natural thing for some of us to analyze. More time is spent arguing about opinion's than about football, these days. spkb25 and dizzle88 like this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

10-03-2016, 10:04 AM	#4
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by K Major Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ... The Saints were 3rd* in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.* Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM. No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man. I definitely put a lot of the blame on Loomis, as well. No doubt about that. And I agree that he shouldn't be a GM for two different teams, also. It's ridiculous. The guy is drinking too much of his own kool-aid. And Benson was nuts to offer him that opportunity. K Major likes this.

10-03-2016, 12:17 PM	#5
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by K Major Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ... The Saints were 3rd* in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.* Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM. No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man. It wasn't that bad. Our line is at least a little bit better and our starting CBs were more than capable. Our problem was depth. We are seeing the result of that. With Breaux and Lewis back there we would be tough to score on. With Ellerbie and Rankins our front would be better. Before our injuries their would have been plenty of defenses worse than us.
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065

10-03-2016, 01:03 PM	#6
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by The Dude It wasn't that bad. Our line is at least a little bit better and our starting CBs were more than capable. Our problem was depth. We are seeing the result of that. With Breaux and Lewis back there we would be tough to score on. With Ellerbie and Rankins our front would be better. Before our injuries their would have been plenty of defenses worse than us. Dude, Wasn't that bad? After week #1 of the season the Saints ranked : #31st in total defense. #28th in passing defense. #25th in rushing defense. This defense has been bad for a while. Multiple seasons of anemic, last place rankings. At some point you can't keep pointing fingers at injuries.

10-03-2016, 03:38 PM	#7
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by K Major Dude, Wasn't that bad? After week #1 of the season the Saints ranked : #31st in total defense. #28th in passing defense. #25th in rushing defense. This defense has been bad for a while. Multiple seasons of anemic, last place rankings. At some point you can't keep pointing fingers at injuries. BEFORE injuries. We lost Lewis and 2 other starters before the season started. We looked pretty solid going in. We would have had what looks to be solid backups too unless ALL starters were injured which is exactly what happened
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,065

10-03-2016, 07:05 AM	#1
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,542	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by neugey I missed the game, and I don't know what we did to stop Rivers at the end, but that is the part that impresses me. Given the way our defense plays and the NFL goes, you figure we have about a 25% of keeping the Chargers out of Field Goal range in the two-minute drill. Somehow we did it, defense must have showed up big time. 1st down - Nick Fairley got his second sack of the game 2nd down - Rivers making changes at the line, center snaps it past him, rivers recovers. 3rd down - Could have been a backbreaker for us, very near 24 yard completion on 3rd and 22. Sterling Moore gets a finger tip on it, knocks off Inmans concentration and he misjudges the catch. Tip drill dropped by 2 saints defenders. 4th down - Rivers throws deep right side and B.W Webb is standing at the first down marker, jumps and snags it.

10-03-2016, 09:45 AM	#3
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,840 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fire Sean Payton Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ... The Saints were 3rd* in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.* Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM. No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man. dizzle88 and burningmetal like this.

10-03-2016, 04:00 PM	#8
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by The Dude BEFORE injuries. We lost Lewis and 2 other starters before the season started. We looked pretty solid going in. We would have had what looks to be solid backups too unless ALL starters were injured which is exactly what happened We HOPED the defense was better coming in. But you're talking about guys who were part of a horrible defense a year ago. You can't say affirmatively that we were looking better coming in. I had my hopes just like anybody else. But until this regime proves they can develop a defense, I'm not going to sit here and say we'd have a good defense without injuries. We'd be better at corner, for sure. But without a consistent pass rush, even better cornerbacks can't hold up. Breaux and Ellerbe are impact guys. I haven't seen enough of P.J. Williams, and haven't seen any of Rankins. Kikaha flashed his quickness last year, but was a one trick pony who got easily fazed out too often. So it's really difficult to judge where we'd be. I look forward to getting at least some of them back to see what happens. In the mean time, the offense is going to have to suck it up. They've been very inconsistent so far. K Major likes this.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

10-03-2016, 02:21 PM	#9
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,191	Re: Fire Sean Payton Originally Posted by K Major Heard an interesting sound byte from Mike and Mike last week ... The Saints were 3rd* in the NFL on spending for offensive players and 31st for the defense.* Even before injuries this defense was bad...very bad. I actually believe Mickey Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He (Loomis) is either a bad personnel guy or he is not a personnel guy at all. Either way this isn't acceptable for a GM. No matter how any of us feel about Loomis, no one can deny it's insane to have one man serving as GM for two Pro sport teams. It's too much for one man. Benson needs to limit Loomis to cap management and stay away from player evaluation and acquisition. Oh, and stop multi tasking the Pelicans and Saints. Pick one and stay there! Then Benson needs to limit Payton's power tremendously. I realize Ireland has been good at evaluating defense but has been hog tied by scheme changes. We have already cleaned house in the scouting department. Give the existing plan time to develop. Still, I believe it's time for a fresh perspective.

10-03-2016, 12:23 PM	#10
Euphoria 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 7,601 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Fire Sean Payton We don't have debth because we don't have cap... thanks to Bree's

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