Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Cooks is gone ... done ... finish ... that horse is dead ... you are trying to equate apples to oranges ... we need all the defensive tools in the bag we can get. "Be Happy don't Worry". :bng:

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

it doesn't, because that's not how it works. Look at Lee's post.
We get a deal with him in principle, and then call NE and work the trade (That second part is probably already done). He signs the 3.9 tender with them, gets traded to us, and then signs his new deal.
Zero percent chance we are giving up #11 for him in any scenario

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

We got a 1st and 3rd for trading Cooks and they got Cooks and our 4th. It's going to be interesting what NE wants? If he was all that NE wouldn't have gotten Gilmore and kept him. If the Saints wanted to pay big bucks why not pay Gilmore?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I'll take that bet.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Damn. He can locate balls better than Jenna Jamison

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

What's makes him a system player ?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

The we will only get 3 good years out of him saying cuz of his age ... we trying to win now people.... he will help us win now....

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

He turned 27 ten days ago, so we are looking at 4-5 productive years

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

In New Orleans wide receivers grow on trees.

Cornerbacks on the other hand die on the vine.

If Malcolm Butler is half as good in Nola as he was in NE we have a franchise CB

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I don't want your money, I want his.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Lol

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I hope they don't give the Patriots either of our first round picks... :rolleyes: :doh:

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

It means that he fits into the system and role that the Patriots needed him to. Bill B is a defensive mastermind and knows how to protect his players weaknesses. I have yet to see Allen or anyone since Williams do that for us.

We have been burned too many times with big payouts. I would rather we sit tight and draft a CB and DE with two of our first three picks. If Butler was as special as people think do you think Bill B would trade him when he can have him for 3.9M? Also, why would they pay Gilmore instead of someone they know well.

He had some good plays but he also got beat bad several times. I think if we fix the pass rush we don't need to pay 13M+ for a CB. Let's draft one since the draft is deep and we should be fine.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

You couldn't said it clearer. If he signed to a contract, the same people that is praising him going to be the same ones start to berate him once they get a real good look at him. Belchick never would line him up with the opposing team best without help over the top help. Malcolm about to be paid big for one play, I hope Loomis not the dummy to pay him.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Look, the kid is good. No he's not Deion, or Patrick Peterson but his is by far better than anyone we have. As long as he does not want Peterson money I say this a rd 3 at them and see if it sticks.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

That is taking the assumption that the Patriots would be willing to trade him rather than make the Saints, or some other team, sign him and give up their first round pick. Even if they do trade him to us, what makes you think they wouldn't ask for one of our first rounders?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Scott F

"it doesn't, because that's not how it works. Look at Lee's post.
We get a deal with him in principle, and then call NE and work the trade (That second part is probably already done). He signs the 3.9 tender with them, gets traded to us, and then signs his new deal.
Zero percent chance we are giving up #11 for him in any scenario"


Once again, what makes you think the Patriots are going to trade him on OUR terms? What I'm talking about is if the Saints sign him to an offer sheet, and the Patriots don't match. That would, in fact, mean that they automatically lose their 11th pick. You're saying you think he'll be traded. Fine. That's your opinion, and perhaps you're right, which is something I already said to Lee about his post.

But IF the Pats trade him to us, what makes anyone believe we'll get the better end of that deal? They will at the very least ask for the #32 pick, and possibly a late round pick thrown in, after seeing how the Cooks trade went down.

The worst thing, in my opinion, is that we don't need Butler. And I don't believe he is what the Saints think he is. And before someone comes in and says the ole one liner of "the Saints know better than you do", I'll remind them of Brandon Browner, Jason David, Stanley Jean-Baptiste and Patrick Robinson, to name a few. They are not immune to badly misjudging cornerbacks.

If they get him, I won't be real excited, but I'll obviously be wishing him the best.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

So Butler won't "die" on the vine? This isn't New England. That's just the concern in question, along with the fact that people are calling him a franchise corner after two years of starting in a zone scheme. Even Darrelle Revis' play dropped dramatically after leaving them. Everybody thought he had gotten "it" back, but after he left it seems like maybe not.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that's fine if they wanna get pumped about Butler. I don't think the questions are at all without merit, however.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I of course have no way of knowing if #32 is in play. That would basically be a Cooks for Butler trade, plus we move up 11 spots with the 4th for 3rd swap. I do know that Loomis/SP aren't giving up the 11, because they would have already signed the offer sheet if that was the case.

The Texans have offered the 57 pick, but won't give up the 25 pick. I would prefer we part with pick 43, but it might come down to the 32 and maybe getting a 7th back.

Here's a good article on his contract "demands":
New England Patriots RFA Malcolm Butler to meet with New Orleans Saints
Butler's agent, Derek Simpson, said last week that reports of Butler asking for "the moon" in his next contract were "completely false" as the "Patriots haven't approached Malcolm about his contract since last year

Texans:
http://www.battleredblog.com/2017/3/...malcolm-butler

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

It worries me we didn't take longer to work on actually trading Cooks for Butler with offsetting picks or other players. What was the urgency to move Cooks so soon? Draft isn't until late April.

I fear that a few years down the road, we would have wished that we would have simply kept Cooks for 1 more year then let him walk in FA and get the comp picks. Plenty of incentive for Cooks to play well for us in his final contract year so he could get big money elsewhere. Let FA work for us and help us control costs instead of trying to fight it.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Paying Cooks over 700k in a roster bonus

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

That's my guess to Scott. We will probably give 32 or a second. My guess would be say exactly what you said- we work a deal, he signs his tender, e trade for him. I thought he turned down 14m per year from NE... IDK how much he is worth but he is getting near Drew numbers

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

His pending like 600K roster bonus, I think

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

we got the 32nd and a nominal 11 spot move from 4th to 3rd

the best comp pick is #97
really no comparison

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I'm thinking he finally came to the realization that if we was to get any better than 7-9 that those guys had to go. I think he FORCED himself to do that. Hell,somedays I put on my tinfoil hat and believe he lurks on this site and me calling them his sister wives was finally what put him over the edge! :D

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Simple, don't do the deal. This time the Saints have the leverage. It's Butler that wants out and the Patriots have to give or the Saints simply move on. I wouldn't be surprised if it was already agreed upon when making the Cooks deal. The Saints pony up first and the Patriots return the favor. Don't forget, Belichick and Payton are good friends and they are the ones pulling the triggers, not Loomis.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

$781,599, to be exact. It was due in his contract this past Monday. The Patriots had to pay it.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

No. That was once again "fake news". :D Seriously, it was nothing but, once again, speculation by media hacks with no clue that quickly becomes accept as fact by the gullible public.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I believe you are right. Not about the lurking portion, but there was no "outside" pressure to make those moves, but the pressure of wanting to win and knowing what had to be done.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Butler is a system Corneback and that system is known as the NFL

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Loom is have his hands all over this not Payton. If Payton had his hands on it and was seeking a trade the 1st statement that he said about Cooks will be a saint for 2017 would've never been made.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I have no concern that the Saints will trade EITHER one of our first round picks for Malcolm Butler. If we were giving up a 1st we'd just sign the offer sheet. If Brandin Cooks could only command the 32nd pick in the 1st round, I'm pretty sure a 2nd rounder and a mid to late round pick or two from next years draft will suffice. My initial concern was whether or not Butler could play man coverage since that's something we want to do more of. I already knew he was good at the line of scrimmage with his press. I didn't want him in a straight up trade for Cooks because of how deep this draft is said to be on the defensive side of the ball, and I was worried about how much money we'd have to pay him once he got here. I'm not worried about any of that anymore. We seem to have plenty of money and are rumored to only be offering a 3 or 4 year deal. I'm sure it'll have similar escape clauses to the deal we gave Byrd as to not put us back in salary cap hell. I went and watched a few of the games he's played in as well. He's much better than any cornerback we have on this team, although Delvin Breaux and P.J. Williams have a lot of potential if they can stay healthy. That's a BIG if. First thing I noticed is that Butler actually attacks the ball in the air and gets his head around quick. We need defensive backs who can track the ball and give it back to our offense. Butler can do that. He can play man or zone. He can press. I don't know what the concern is with him shadowing #1 WR's, but I saw him cover and make plays on plenty of #1's in the highlights that were posted in this forum. Nobody playing for the Saints can shadow Julio Jones.....but that goes for EVERYBODY else in the NFL. We need guys who can make the play when the opportunity presents itself. You aren't about to shut down Julio. You can only hope to contain players like that for a little while or make the QB hesitant about throwing over there, but at the end of the day all it takes is one play to break a guy like that loose. I think he'll be fine covering the likes of Kelvin Benjamin and Mike Evans. I'm ready for us to work out the deal and pull the trigger. We INSTANTLY become a better team with the addition of Malcolm Butler.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Well said Rez!

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

One would hope that they wouldn't do the deal, if that's the case. I'm not convinced of that, however. I realize that Payton and Belichick are friends, but I don't know that it means they will be returning any favors. If they were willing to do that, then why not just trade Cooks for Butler the other day?

Don't forget that there are other suitors for Butler if the Saints don't pony up.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

You're right on many levels Rez, but don't forget that we've brought in many studs in the past just to watch them face plant on the astro turf here. A big part of a player's -regardless of talent level- success is not so much up to what they're bringing with them. I'm going to refer back to my favorite JP quote at this point, "It's the coaching stupid!"

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I know you know better than that. System players are a real thing in this league. You might disagree with the assessment that Butler is one of them, but there are countless examples of guys who can only produce in certain systems.