Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

That much is true. I can't argue with that. It seems like we've made a lot of strides this offseason in fixing the issues with our coaching staff though. At least I hope that's the case. As we know, Sean Payton really wants to be the Seahawks of the NFC South defensively. He wants Allen to implement a defense that heavily relies on Cover 3 and Cover 1 with a single high safety like they do with Earl Thomas (FS) while Kam Chancellor (SS) comes down and makes plays at the 2nd level of the defense. With that being said, I think that's why they're checking out Obi Melifonwu of UCONN to be the SS because I'm not sure if Kenny Vacarro is going to cut it. I wonder what we could get in return for him? That's also why I think they're pushing so hard for Butler. He can press and play the man coverage needed for Cover 1 as well as the deep third coverage required in the Cover 3. Breaux is pretty good at pressing at the line too, so maybe they can hold receivers at the line a little longer, throw off some timing, and allow our pass rush to get back there for a few sacks. I'm starting to see the vision kind of come together. A.J. Klein is great in coverage as a linebacker. Craig Robertson is too, although he's a little slower than I'd prefer him to be. Those are the kind of linebackers you want when you're running the Cover 3. You can modify it and send Ellerbe off the edge. Bring in Stephone Anthony and let him put some pressure on the QB as well. I don't know...I'm ready to see how it plays out.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

i hope that is true because we shouldn't pay that

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

They hadn't had the opportunity to meet with Butler yet and had to move quickly on Cooks. They have to have something worked out with Btler in advance. It all make perfect sense.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I dont even think they would be meeting him unless the outline of a deal and having some inside knowledge of what Butler wants in the contract was known. Teams are not going to waste their time bringing players in with no plan in place

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Of course he would say that. Saying anything else would devalue Cooks. Loomis doesn't deal with personnel moves beyond the money end. ALL personnel moves are controlled by Payton.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

He agent came out and said they have even spoken to the Patriots since the season ended and claims of demand were totally false.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Exactly. It makes perfect sense on every level.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Just a thought

Saints send 32 to Pats
Pats send Butler and either 72,96 (3rd)or 131 (4th) the other way

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I'm really against this Butler trade though I've got the feeling Sean & D.A. have their minds set...

For the life of me, why do you take on Butler if New England is discarding him?

Butler literally made a goal-line, game-winning interception as an unheralded, undrafted rookie free agent...

Two years later, MB was your shutdown cornerback on yet another Superbowl run...

The Pats still saw fit to sign Buffalo's Gilmore and let him walk?

IMHO, New England is much better at defensive talent eval than the Saints.

Why didn't we get into the bidding for Gilmore then if he's better?

And Payton and DA are both on record saying they'd like to have a CB with length for matching up with big receivers in our division.

So why are we adding Butler who's 5' 9-1/2" and 190 lbs wet?

The corner that we've professed we want will be there with pick 32 and you'll have cap friendly numbers for four years with a fifth option.

It's not the ***d*mn corners but the Safety and Pass Rush that's been the problem...

We over commit way too much resources on veterans, backing ourselves up against the wall when we need to rotate in some rookies every year...

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

IDK JP,

Maybe because he has proven ability?? Butler has played more games than likely all of our current CB's combined. We are already youthful at the position in what is mostly a zone/pattern match scheme requiring experience, familiarity, and FB IQ. For those reasons alone, it makes sense for me (assuming the deal happens) to finalize the transaction.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

They aren't discarding him at all... They slapped a restricted tener on him if we sign him and they don't match we lose our #11 pick in the draft. The only possible way I would be ok with signing him is if we re work the Cooks trade.

I want him but not at the cost of our #11 NO WAY.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

The art of the Butler deal...

- we sign him we lose our #11 pick.
- The only way around that is to re-work the Cooks deal.
- I think NE and NO realized their mistake with the 4th round pick. So that would give them a chance to correct that gaff. We have to get that pick back and trade it back and get something for it before NE can have it and forfiet it. We may also get it back and keep it altogether.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I'm scratching my head on this one for a number of reasons. Proponents of this deal keep making this claim that "they must have a deal in place", which even if true, is not at all related to my issue with it.

I don't care if they have a deal worked out with Butler. I'm saying what are we giving up to get him. And why exactly do we need him so bad?

Also, why do you say they had to move quickly on Cooks? What's the rush? That doesn't make perfect sense to me. People seem convinced that a deal in place means we won't get fleeced again.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Aren't we kind of beating a horse that hasn't yet been born here?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Where did I say system players don't exist?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

There is another tempting issue

If the Pats dont play ball and demand a one this year wait till 2 days before the draft and sign him to a tender. they wont get the pick till 2018 and with a bit of luck it will be pick 32 ad we wont care

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

If they didn't get a deal done on Cooks before this past Monday the Saints would have had to eat his $781K roster bonus. By making the deal before then the Patriots had to take the hit. Perfectly logical.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

No. There is another perfectly logical option you are ignoring. First the Pats and the Saints agree to a trade for Butler for whatever value. The Saints meet with Butler and agree to a deal. They don't finalize anything. They only agree. Then Butler signs the offered tender with the Pats. The Pats and Saints execute the agreed upon trade. The Saints and Butler execute the agreed upon deal.

That simple.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I can pretty much promise this deal will happen. Hightower just signed a 4 yr 43 million contract with the pats. No way they pay 3 defensive players 30+ million a year.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Did you check the competition he faced as well?
When it comes to covering the passing game, the NFC South is a very different animal than the AFC East.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Still waiting.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

I don't believe PFF accounts for DVOA in that particular stat.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

You implied it by saying "Butler is a system cornerback, and that system is known as the NFL".

Is that not suggesting that there are no real system players? I don't see any other way to interpret what you said.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Don't roster bonuses not count against the cap? If that is correct, that isn't much money to swallow in the NFL, in order to take a little more time on getting a better trade deal worked out.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Like Brandon Marshall, Jarvis Landry, Kenny stills, decker, Sammy Watkins, woods, goodwin? Not counting the out of conference like Brown, COOKS and Snead. You point is not valid.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Make this happen. I hope they sign him and just swap the picks back from the Cooks signing. Didn't we swap like a 3rd and 4th with New England ?? I'm not sure. But even if we give up the 32nd pick, It's like we traded Cooks for Butler which I would do all day. . .. Let's Go N.O. !!!!

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

swap Cook for browner? short might mouse for yet another short might mouse does not thrill me and swap for cap hits is so one sided i really do not like it. Pats need to give up picks to suck up such a huge cap hit. But another CB under 5'10" ?

We needed to sign a pats S to make this work. Pats run a single high safety look that always rolls coverage to the best WR on the field. We do not have that FS to do this.

If this draft was not so deep on CB I might have a different feeling. At this point I would let him walk and keep the picks.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

The size thing for corners at this level are a bit over rated.

Peterson
A.J.Bouye
Chris Harris Jr
Josh Norman
Joe Haden
Malcolm Butler (all he does is makes plays)

All above average corners barely six feet tall.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Roster bonuses absolutely count against the cap. And how do we not know that they hadn't already been hashing over a separate trade concerning Butler? Payton could have coerced the Pats do do the first trade right away so we wouldn't have the cap hit, while agreeing, in principle, to follow through with a deal to take Butler off their hands AFTER negotiating a with him.

That doesn't sound like the Saints got fleeced at all. If that's how it goes down then it sounds like pretty shrewd moves by Payton. Of course, that also has Loomis written all over it. He knows how to manipulate the cap better than most in the league.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

He is not in this league. But he will be looking for this kind of money and the pats know it. That is why they signed Gilmore and are trying to get all they can for Bulter. Typical pats move. take the picks and walk away

height is an issue in the NFC south

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Butler is 5-11 not 5-9... Plenty tall enough.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Didn't the Pats play Cincy (AJ Green) and the Jets (Brandon Marshall) twice last season? I don't even think Demaryius Thomas caught a pass vs NE last year. All pretty big dudes & Malcolm did just fine on the boundary.

C'mon Hagan ;).

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

5096

Malcolm Butler*|*West Alabama,*CB*:*2014 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Simple question

Does Revis have anything left?
Worth bringing in for a year if the Butler deal cant be done?

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Miami
Jets
Bills

Not a QB hardy division loaded top talent at WR

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Pffffft! Dude Revis is washed up. Even so, he'll still want​ top dollar because he's a greedy son of a *****.

Then you also have his off field issues. I know the case has been dismissed, but it will come back.

The guy is an average corner at best now. He's long in the tooth and greedy and will be a distraction. All that on top of the huge contract he'll want.

**** that.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

He's dead out chea. That career is over.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Fair enough
Didnt watch him last year and heard he had dropped off a bit

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!
 

Far more than a bit. He became a liability. He was being targeted he was playing so bad.

Re: Breaking: Malcolm Butler visiting Saints Thursday!