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Defense Defense Defense

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by dizzle88 Firstly, it was Thomas' rookie season, so regardless you'd have to give him more time. Secondly, Thomas broke all of Colstons rookie records Is it Thomas' fault that as per Payton's play calling, Thomas was not ...

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Old 03-25-2017, 07:49 PM   #1
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by dizzle88 View Post
Firstly, it was Thomas' rookie season, so regardless you'd have to give him more time.
Secondly, Thomas broke all of Colstons rookie records

Is it Thomas' fault that as per Payton's play calling, Thomas was not designated to run many deep routes. It was obvious Payton liked his ability to work the crossing patterns and break tackles so he got him working to his strengths.

Antonio Brown for instance didn't become the player he is now until his 4th year in the league.

Watch Michael Thomas in his rookie highlights completely out-muscle the DB's he faces and it's impossible to deny he looks like a special talent.
If you're going to do stuff like that you better come up with the reasons why. As someone who plays FF and was tracking players like Brown, you know nothing about how the steelers treat their receivers.

Hines Ward, Mike Wallace..........
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Old 03-25-2017, 09:16 PM   #2
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
Thomas reminded me of number two guys last year like Decker and Sanders. Those receivers could not stand alone as number ones. I don't see Thomas as a number one. I have seen Colston in his prime catch deep TD passes. Thomas has not shown that yet. I just don't see it. He was fine where he was but I don't see Thomas in the same league as Brown, Jones, ODB, Green. He's not even Evans, Allen, and Watkins.

The truth is the saints don't have many things good, that fans over-value what is good.
I'm curious how you came to that conclusion.

Thomas was top ten in all receiving stats, including +20yard plays.

2016 NFL Player Receiving Stats - National Football League - ESPN

He had the second highest number catches of any receiver in the history of the NFL.

He ranked #2 in FootballOutsiders.com DYAR rankings
#2 in DVOA
2nd in catch percentage.
2nd in Yards After Reception

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Statistically speaking he was one of the best receivers in the league last year.

I think without Cooks in the lineup, Thomas will be a top 5 receiver in almost every category next season.

Why do you think he's not a number 1 receiver?
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:04 PM   #3
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
We just need to add someone to catch Fleener or Ginn Jr. Brees has never had a offense where not one player has the Colston or Graham factor. If you take a closer look at Thomas, he does not have Cooks' speed and a lot of his runs were after the catch. That's not how a elite receiver operates.
Tedd is another Robert Meachem.

Thomas looks to have all the makings of a solid possession receiver just like Colston.

Fleener truthfully is entering the last year of his ridiculous contract. If the saints play this right

You bring me to my TE pick of OJ Howard. One of the benefits of Howard is getting us out of that freaking contract next year so we can have an additional 3.3 million in 2018 and 6.3 million in 2019. Of course this is after subtracting out OJs cost to us of about $2,5 mill/yr if picked at 11. Cap control via the draft. A thing the Pats do extremely well.

Now to my second point. Find me a WR that can match Howard combination of athletic/size/speed combination. He has the skill set to make you forget about Graham He is Graham with a skill set Jimmy was never good at. Blocking. Right now I am thinking he is not only the best TE in the draft but could be the best WR. Your actually drafting two players with one pick. He will make up for Cooks loss. This is a once in a life time freak.

O.J. Howard TE Alabama 6055 251 4.51 #88 Sr

This guy running around in the secondary would scare the helll out of DC league wide. Knowing that Drew loves using his TE makes him even more dangerous. Freeing up every one. Ever see OJ block down field. A thing of beauty. His impact on the field would be felt on every down no matter what he does.

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Last edited by hagan714; 03-25-2017 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:43 PM   #4
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by hagan714 View Post
Tedd is another Robert Meachem.

Thomas looks to have all the makings of a solid possession receiver just like Colston.

Fleener truthfully is entering the last year of his ridiculous contract. If the saints play this right

You bring me to my TE pick of OJ Howard. One of the benefits of Howard is getting us out of that freaking contract next year so we can have an additional 3.3 million in 2018 and 6.3 million in 2019. Of course this is after subtracting out OJs cost to us of about $2,5 mill/yr if picked at 11. Cap control via the draft. A thing the Pats do extremely well.

Now to my second point. Find me a WR that can match Howard combination of athletic/size/speed combination. He has the skill set to make you forget about Graham He is Graham with a skill set Jimmy was never good at. Blocking. Right now I am thinking he is not only the best TE in the draft but could be the best WR. Your actually drafting two players with one pick. He will make up for Cooks loss. This is a once in a life time freak.

O.J. Howard TE Alabama 6055 251 4.51 #88 Sr

This guy running around in the secondary would scare the helll out of DC league wide. Knowing that Drew loves using his TE makes him even more dangerous. Freeing up every one. Ever see OJ block down field. A thing of beauty. His impact on the field would be felt on every down no matter what he does.
I will give you a reason why Fleener is still here. I'm going to bet Brees and his family are closest to him than anyone else on the team.
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Old 03-26-2017, 10:42 AM   #5
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
I will give you a reason why Fleener is still here. I'm going to bet Brees and his family are closest to him than anyone else on the team.
Fascinating conspiracy theory. Ever heard of Occam's Razor where the most logical explanation is likely the correct one? Try this on for size.

Per: Coby Fleener Contract Details, Salary Cap Breakdowns, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

Fleener has nearly $15 million guaranteed on his contract including a $8 million signing bonus. It's cost the Saints $12 million in dead cap to cut him now. Next year the dead cap will be under $5 million against a $8 million cap hit.

In short too expensive to cut now. Cheap enough to do next year.

BTW what evidence do you have that Brees and Fleener have anything other than a professional relationship?

Occam's Razor.

SFIAH
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Old 03-26-2017, 05:42 PM   #6
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
I will give you a reason why Fleener is still here. I'm going to bet Brees and his family are closest to him than anyone else on the team.
Dude you've lost your mind. That is absolutely ridiculous. When and where have you ever seen that they're buddies? I've seen nor heard nothing of the such. And even if they were, who cares? Brees wouldn't be the reason they kept Fleener. It'd be stupid and illogical to cut him this year anyway you psycho.
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Old 03-27-2017, 05:30 PM   #7
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by jnormand View Post
Dude you've lost your mind. That is absolutely ridiculous. When and where have you ever seen that they're buddies? I've seen nor heard nothing of the such. And even if they were, who cares? Brees wouldn't be the reason they kept Fleener. It'd be stupid and illogical to cut him this year anyway you psycho.

Psycho?
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:52 PM   #8
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Brandin Cooks was "Elite" to you? He finished #3 to the obvious "Non Elite" WR's for the Saints!!! Oh by the way Jimmy Graham was 52nd!

2016 NFL Yards After Catch Leaders

#9 Michael Thomas
#30 Willie Snead
#35 Brandin Cooks

Oh yes, Two other obvious "Non Elite" WR's

#7 Odell Beckham Jr
#19 Julio Jones
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:31 PM   #9
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by vpheughan View Post
Brandin Cooks was "Elite" to you? He finished #3 to the obvious "Non Elite" WR's for the Saints!!! Oh by the way Jimmy Graham was 52nd!

2016 NFL Yards After Catch Leaders

#7 Michael Thomas
#30 Willie Snead
#35 Brandin Cooks

Oh yes, Two other obvious "Non Elite" WR's

#7 Odell Beckham Jr
#19 Julio Jones
Because Cooks wasn't as targeted. That's why he's that low. Cooks was only used for specialty plays. Thomas yards after catch were different. That's not the way ODB ran. Or Brown.

Laquon Treadwell would be better than Thomas in this offense. Again we accept what other teams consider average.
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Old 03-25-2017, 07:44 PM   #10
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Re: Defense Defense Defense

Originally Posted by WillSaints81 View Post
Because Cooks wasn't as targeted. That's why he's that low. Cooks was only used for specialty plays. Thomas yards after catch were different. That's not the way ODB ran. Or Brown.

Laquon Treadwell would be better than Thomas in this offense. Again we accept what other teams consider average.
The guy who couldn't even crack a starting spot for a Minnesota team that badly needed a WR to step up. Seriously, you think that a guy who finished the season with 1 catch for 15 yards, is better suited than a guy that recorded over 1100 yards and 8 TD's. Sorry to say, but your point is utterly ridiculous.
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