Payton need to go?

K Major · 09-13-2017, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Watched the game again last night and confirmed play calling has got to be more patient with the run game - from a post earlier in the thread...

So the recipe for beating these physical defenses like the Vikings, Seahawks and Broncos is too pound them, running it right at their edge rushers...

And another thing I didn't see with the Ingram and Peterson runs was a lot of pull-zone blocking to open the field, instead trying to run at L. Joseph...

Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward.

Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first.

jeanpierre · 09-13-2017, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward.

Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first.

And that's the thing, what do you define as working?

I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine...

neugey · 09-13-2017, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!

It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down.

dizzle88 · 09-13-2017, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

And that's the thing, what do you define as working?

I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine...

It was working, the game was being managed and we all knew eventually that our offense would find a way.

What we didn't count on is the D having a random meltdown after they didn't play too badly to begin with.

Then Payton just confused himself, finally got an offensive drive going, only to settle for FG's.

dizzle88 · 09-13-2017, 11:23 AM

Watch this outstanding coverage by every Vikings defender and wish we had anything close to that

K Major likes this.

Papa Voodoo · 09-13-2017, 11:47 AM

New England hung in with a lead and then got stomped. We did nearly the same. NE is going win and we are going to lose even though we essentially played the same? Let's watch and see what happens. Maybe we win and move onto Carolina with momentum.

skymike · 09-13-2017, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by neugey

It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down.

This is why you go to the dome and sit in the Terrace End Zone seats--- BEST SEATS there are, if you want to see the actual game!

saintfan · 09-13-2017, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Last season, footballoutsiders rated the Saints with the best run blocking line in the league.

5th in the league in pass blocking.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2016 OFFENSIVE LINES

Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol

Utah_Saint · 09-13-2017, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by saintfan

Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol

Yeah, maybe.

They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is.

Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense.

saintfan · 09-13-2017, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Utah_Saint

Yeah, maybe.

They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is.

Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense.

I know. I'm not throwing rocks. It's just that I watch this team. We watch this team. We are not a good running team and haven't been in a long time. Personally I don't think it's the fault of any of our backs really - I mean we miss Deuce, but Mark Ingram is a good back - there have been others, we just don't run well overall.

09-13-2017, 10:50 AM	#121
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,018 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by jeanpierre Watched the game again last night and confirmed play calling has got to be more patient with the run game - from a post earlier in the thread... So the recipe for beating these physical defenses like the Vikings, Seahawks and Broncos is too pound them, running it right at their edge rushers... And another thing I didn't see with the Ingram and Peterson runs was a lot of pull-zone blocking to open the field, instead trying to run at L. Joseph... Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward. Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first. WillMacKenzie likes this.

09-13-2017, 11:18 AM	#122
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by K Major Someway the Saints must establish a running attack going forward. Ingram, Peterson, Kamara etc ... there is no reason for us not to have a 90+ yard run game. Parcels always used to say that Payton was a bit too "pass happy". Run it down their collective throats ... even if it isn't working at first. And that's the thing, what do you define as working? I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine... K Major likes this.

09-13-2017, 11:18 AM	#123
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,590 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by dizzle88 I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!! It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down. skymike, Rugby Saint II and dizzle88 like this.

09-13-2017, 11:22 AM	#124
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by jeanpierre And that's the thing, what do you define as working? I would've considerd a lead of 6-3 as working just fine... It was working, the game was being managed and we all knew eventually that our offense would find a way. What we didn't count on is the D having a random meltdown after they didn't play too badly to begin with. Then Payton just confused himself, finally got an offensive drive going, only to settle for FG's.

09-13-2017, 11:23 AM	#125
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 10,838	Re: Payton need to go? Watch this outstanding coverage by every Vikings defender and wish we had anything close to that Twitter K Major likes this.

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09-13-2017, 11:47 AM	#126
Papa Voodoo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,628	Re: Payton need to go? New England hung in with a lead and then got stomped. We did nearly the same. NE is going win and we are going to lose even though we essentially played the same? Let's watch and see what happens. Maybe we win and move onto Carolina with momentum.

09-13-2017, 11:50 AM	#127
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by neugey It's so hard to tell with the way NFL broadcasts do their cameras. I honestly can't see anything 5 yards past the line of scrimmage unless the ball is thrown and the camera follows. Especially ESPN NFL broadcasts, they are like a QB peep show. So I can't tell when we are actually going deep, why our route concepts are not working against the Vikings D, and why our pass defense coverage is breaking down. This is why you go to the dome and sit in the Terrace End Zone seats--- BEST SEATS there are, if you want to see the actual game!

09-13-2017, 12:36 PM	#128
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Last season, footballoutsiders rated the Saints with the best run blocking line in the league. 5th in the league in pass blocking. FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis \| 2016 OFFENSIVE LINES Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol

09-13-2017, 01:39 PM	#129
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by saintfan Well maybe that's why they're outsiders. Lol Yeah, maybe. They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is. Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense.

09-13-2017, 01:47 PM	#130
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by Utah_Saint Yeah, maybe. They're pretty good. They came up with the DVOA system (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average) that a lot of teams use in the offseason to figure out how bad a problem is. Basically, when measuring how an offense performed, they don't value each defense the same. For example, if you threw for 300 yards against the Saints, it's not nearly as impressive as throwing for 300 against the Broncos, because just about everybody throws well against the Saints. They use what everybody else got passing against the Saints as the standard. So 250 against the Broncos defense might be better than 350 against the Saints defense. I know. I'm not throwing rocks. It's just that I watch this team. We watch this team. We are not a good running team and haven't been in a long time. Personally I don't think it's the fault of any of our backs really - I mean we miss Deuce, but Mark Ingram is a good back - there have been others, we just don't run well overall.

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