Payton need to go?

Utah_Saint · 09-12-2017, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by RaginCajun83

And that equaled 7 wins, who cares what the line was ranked last year

Maybe you didn't notice the post I was responding to.

nola_swammi · 09-12-2017, 11:48 PM

Can we trade Payton for Belchick?

spkb25 · 09-13-2017, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by RailBoss

This excerpt pretty much summed it up "Rudderless Group"

The Saints' offense started with an efficient, effective balanced attack against a stout Vikings defense. It transformed into a rudderless group struggling to move the football once right tackle Zach Strief exited with a knee injury.

Yep and you know what extremely frustrating? Watching SP not adjust to the fact that we did not have the blocking for plays that take time to develop down the field and Brees kept getting 0 time. You could tell the Vikings thought we were going to bring heat and that was why they only threw quick passes to start the game. Then they switched it up and started going down the field.

dizzle88 · 09-13-2017, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

Yep and you know what extremely frustrating? Watching SP not adjust to the fact that we did not have the blocking for plays that take time to develop down the field and Brees kept getting 0 time. You could tell the Vikings thought we were going to bring heat and that was why they only threw quick passes to start the game. Then they switched it up and started going down the field.

I could tell our D wasn't the same as preseason right from the very start, when they got beat on 3rd down twice by the same exact play, a drag route.
Right before the snap, the entire LB and DB group were just pointing and shouting to each other like they didn't know their assignments.

But our "number 1 offense" refused to throw to anyone that wasn't a RB. We needed to take shots downfield, yet Payton force fed the ball to Kamara and AP.

spkb25 · 09-13-2017, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I could tell our D wasn't the same as preseason right from the very start, when they got beat on 3rd down twice by the same exact play, a drag route.
Right before the snap, the entire LB and DB group were just pointing and shouting to each other like they didn't know their assignments.

But our "number 1 offense" refused to throw to anyone that wasn't a RB. We needed to take shots downfield, yet Payton force fed the ball to Kamara and AP.

No slants to MT. I counted one. One of the worst plays I saw was the swing pass to kamara...I mean I just looked like it was in slow mo wondering when are we going to throw him the ball.

The Dude · 09-13-2017, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by spkb25

No slants to MT. I counted one. One of the worst plays I saw was the swing pass to kamara...I mean I just looked like it was in slow mo wondering when are we going to throw him the ball.

Is Payton that scared of our receiving corps without Cooks or Snead? I understand he said he was committed to the running game but I didn't think he meant he was committed to only throwing to his running backs.
I think Brees was a little off too. It's understandable, they didn't get much game time work together. I hope they get their **** together. KC had to score what, like 40 plus points to beat the Pats? I guarantee our defense can't limit them to under 30 so offense better get their **** together .

jeanpierre · 09-13-2017, 10:15 AM

Watched the game again last night and confirmed play calling has got to be more patient with the run game - from a post earlier in the thread...

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

[B]... the running game not working is simply not true...

The Saints were leading the game 6-3 with a run-pass ratio of 16 run plays to 17 (14) pass plays; three of the pass plays were negated by penalty (hence the 17 (14) pass plays), two by the Vikings (T. Johnson - PF/Roughing Passer, E. Griffin - Offsides) and one by Saints (A. Peat - Holding)...

Just because Ingram, Peterson, or Kamara tear off a run of 50 yds doesn't mean the run game wasn't successful...

In the first half, we had RuYd plays of 9, 1, 3, 2, 2, 1, 4, 3, 3, 7, 2, 5, -1, 3, 2, 1...

Again, the 20 yd gashes are great, but this Vikings defense was third (3rd) in pass defense, but only twentieth (20th) in rush defense last season...

So the recipe for beating these physical defenses like the Vikings, Seahawks and Broncos is too pound them, running it right at their edge rushers...

And another thing I didn't see with the Ingram and Peterson runs was a lot of pull-zone blocking to open the field, instead trying to run at L. Joseph...

Running those wide zone sweeps, exposing their pass rushers to those remember me hits from our physical guards...

Believe Payton learned his lesson and the MNF beating in the second half will reinforce the lesson...

dizzle88 · 09-13-2017, 10:17 AM

I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!

jeanpierre · 09-13-2017, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!

I'd like to have seem @CantguardMike running double move routes, but that pass rush was allowing the time...

If anything, to slow that pass rush, in addition to running it at their edge rushers, we should have ran screens, specifically with Ingram...

There were keying on Kamara as a receiver in the flats, even though he did have seven RuAts...

jeanpierre · 09-13-2017, 10:23 AM

When we didn't spend the extra mil and sign Zeitler as our Right Guard, settling on Warford, I knew this was going to be a problem...

Mass and @ss is fine, but Warford's massive @ss is gonna be slower out in space and whiff on those linebackers...

Zeitler excells in getting out in space, beating on those defenders, which would be more conducive to our screen game...

09-12-2017, 11:19 PM	#111
Utah_Saint Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 3,521	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by RaginCajun83 And that equaled 7 wins, who cares what the line was ranked last year Maybe you didn't notice the post I was responding to.

09-12-2017, 11:48 PM	#112
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,627	Re: Payton need to go? Can we trade Payton for Belchick? RailBoss likes this.

09-13-2017, 04:53 AM	#113
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,093	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by RailBoss This excerpt pretty much summed it up "Rudderless Group" The Saints' offense started with an efficient, effective balanced attack against a stout Vikings defense. It transformed into a rudderless group struggling to move the football once right tackle Zach Strief exited with a knee injury. Yep and you know what extremely frustrating? Watching SP not adjust to the fact that we did not have the blocking for plays that take time to develop down the field and Brees kept getting 0 time. You could tell the Vikings thought we were going to bring heat and that was why they only threw quick passes to start the game. Then they switched it up and started going down the field. RailBoss and dizzle88 like this.

09-13-2017, 04:59 AM	#114
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,113	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by spkb25 Yep and you know what extremely frustrating? Watching SP not adjust to the fact that we did not have the blocking for plays that take time to develop down the field and Brees kept getting 0 time. You could tell the Vikings thought we were going to bring heat and that was why they only threw quick passes to start the game. Then they switched it up and started going down the field. I could tell our D wasn't the same as preseason right from the very start, when they got beat on 3rd down twice by the same exact play, a drag route. Right before the snap, the entire LB and DB group were just pointing and shouting to each other like they didn't know their assignments. But our "number 1 offense" refused to throw to anyone that wasn't a RB. We needed to take shots downfield, yet Payton force fed the ball to Kamara and AP.

09-13-2017, 05:03 AM	#115
spkb25 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 13,093	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by dizzle88 I could tell our D wasn't the same as preseason right from the very start, when they got beat on 3rd down twice by the same exact play, a drag route. Right before the snap, the entire LB and DB group were just pointing and shouting to each other like they didn't know their assignments. But our "number 1 offense" refused to throw to anyone that wasn't a RB. We needed to take shots downfield, yet Payton force fed the ball to Kamara and AP. No slants to MT. I counted one. One of the worst plays I saw was the swing pass to kamara...I mean I just looked like it was in slow mo wondering when are we going to throw him the ball.

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09-13-2017, 09:55 AM	#116
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by spkb25 No slants to MT. I counted one. One of the worst plays I saw was the swing pass to kamara...I mean I just looked like it was in slow mo wondering when are we going to throw him the ball. Is Payton that scared of our receiving corps without Cooks or Snead? I understand he said he was committed to the running game but I didn't think he meant he was committed to only throwing to his running backs. I think Brees was a little off too. It's understandable, they didn't get much game time work together. I hope they get their ** together. KC had to score what, like 40 plus points to beat the Pats? I guarantee our defense can't limit them to under 30 so offense better get their ** together .
The Dude 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 9,048

09-13-2017, 10:15 AM	#117
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Payton need to go? Watched the game again last night and confirmed play calling has got to be more patient with the run game - from a post earlier in the thread... Originally Posted by jeanpierre [B]... the running game not working is simply not true... The Saints were leading the game 6-3 with a run-pass ratio of 16 run plays to 17 (14) pass plays; three of the pass plays were negated by penalty (hence the 17 (14) pass plays), two by the Vikings (T. Johnson - PF/Roughing Passer, E. Griffin - Offsides) and one by Saints (A. Peat - Holding)... Just because Ingram, Peterson, or Kamara tear off a run of 50 yds doesn't mean the run game wasn't successful... In the first half, we had RuYd plays of 9, 1, 3, 2, 2, 1, 4, 3, 3, 7, 2, 5, -1, 3, 2, 1... Again, the 20 yd gashes are great, but this Vikings defense was third (3rd) in pass defense, but only twentieth (20th) in rush defense last season... So the recipe for beating these physical defenses like the Vikings, Seahawks and Broncos is too pound them, running it right at their edge rushers... And another thing I didn't see with the Ingram and Peterson runs was a lot of pull-zone blocking to open the field, instead trying to run at L. Joseph... Running those wide zone sweeps, exposing their pass rushers to those remember me hits from our physical guards... Believe Payton learned his lesson and the MNF beating in the second half will reinforce the lesson... dizzle88 likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

09-13-2017, 10:17 AM	#118
dizzle88 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11,113	Re: Payton need to go? I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!!

09-13-2017, 10:21 AM	#119
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Payton need to go? Originally Posted by dizzle88 I don't understand why our offense didn't come out of the gates aggressive, we just passed every ball to the flats and expected to get a first down. Call some shots down the field man!! I'd like to have seem @CantguardMike running double move routes, but that pass rush was allowing the time... If anything, to slow that pass rush, in addition to running it at their edge rushers, we should have ran screens, specifically with Ingram... There were keying on Kamara as a receiver in the flats, even though he did have seven RuAts...
	Last edited by jeanpierre; 09-13-2017 at 11:19 AM..

09-13-2017, 10:23 AM	#120
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Payton need to go? When we didn't spend the extra mil and sign Zeitler as our Right Guard, settling on Warford, I knew this was going to be a problem... Mass and @ss is fine, but Warford's massive @ss is gonna be slower out in space and whiff on those linebackers... Zeitler excells in getting out in space, beating on those defenders, which would be more conducive to our screen game... Rugby Saint II likes this.

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