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Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; The only thing about this entire thread that confuses me is the usage of the word division. The word is constantly thrown around. So I'm sitting back and wondering at one point were we not divided? The socioeconomic constructs of ...

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Old 06-09-2020, 09:40 AM   #241
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

The only thing about this entire thread that confuses me is the usage of the word division. The word is constantly thrown around. So I'm sitting back and wondering at one point were we not divided? The socioeconomic constructs of this nation were built on division. Since when have Black people and White people been united in America? Where is this America some of the contributors to this forum have been living in? I haven't seen it.

I go back and watch the debates from the 1950's and 1960's. White people would tell Black people that their rhetoric was divisive...during Jim Crow segregation. The irony. Those who went as far as to create legislation to keep the races separated telling the other group they're being divisive. It's an odd concept for me to grasp.

I'm also seeing the words "truth" and "reality" utilized. Well this idea of unity isn't rooted in any truth or reality. My great-grandfather didn't know anything about this unity when he went off to fight in World War II and couldn't eat in the mess hall with the White soldiers. He didn't know anything about this unity when he came back and eventually had to join in on the Civil Rights Movement.

My grandparents didn't know if this unity when they were attending segregated schools. My grandfather didn't know if this unity when he became the 1st Black engineer at the Paper Mill in Moss Point, MS and was routinely called boy and ******.

So this idea of unity...it just really throws me off. When Black people rallied behind Obama White people weren't unified with us in that decision. When White people rallied behind Bush Black people weren't unified with them in that decision. Sure, we come together in spurts. We'll join hands in tragedy, despair, and times of war. When it's over it's business as usual.

I'll watch people weaponize MLK against Blacks because he was so "unifying". Yeah...unifying enough that he was murdered. MLK was NOT liked in the 1960's just like Muhammad Ali. The love affair with MLK came after his death. But the victors write the story per usual.

I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if we aren't going to talk about who implemented the concept and how it became what it is. I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if you have no tangible solutions. If helping the people in the ghetto was a priority then there would be no ghettoes.

Difference between me and most, I'm not looking for the help, so in turn I don't want to here the *****ing and moaning about communities you don't ever have to go to. If I'm Michael Jordan I'm building a Jordan Brand factory right in the hood of Chicago. I'm training and giving well paying jobs with health benefits (since for some reason they tie healthcare to employment) to the residents to work there. This increases the property value and improves the schools by default.

So that's what I'm planning to do to help where I can. Create healthcare facilities and partner with the school systems to funnel these kids from high school, to a junior college/university, and right into a facility in their community made specifically for them to work at. Plans. Ideas. Solutions.

I'd bet a years salary you'll see a dramatic drop in crime rates and an improvement in educational outcomes. People need resources and opportunities. You can't just blindly throw money at things. You have to strategize and try to create solutions.

More importantly, nobody posting has ANY problem being divisive when they want to get their point across. Either you agree or you disagree. If one side is saying that this is their reality and the other side is saying that's not true we're supposed to come together because we both like the Saints? That's the unity we're talking about? Again, just odd.

"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael
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Old 06-09-2020, 10:40 AM   #242
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
The only thing about this entire thread that confuses me is the usage of the word division. The word is constantly thrown around. So I'm sitting back and wondering at one point were we not divided? The socioeconomic constructs of this nation were built on division. Since when have Black people and White people been united in America? Where is this America some of the contributors to this forum have been living in? I haven't seen it.

I go back and watch the debates from the 1950's and 1960's. White people would tell Black people that their rhetoric was divisive...during Jim Crow segregation. The irony. Those who went as far as to create legislation to keep the races separated telling the other group they're being divisive. It's an odd concept for me to grasp.

I'm also seeing the words "truth" and "reality" utilized. Well this idea of unity isn't rooted in any truth or reality. My great-grandfather didn't know anything about this unity when he went off to fight in World War II and couldn't eat in the mess hall with the White soldiers. He didn't know anything about this unity when he came back and eventually had to join in on the Civil Rights Movement.

My grandparents didn't know if this unity when they were attending segregated schools. My grandfather didn't know if this unity when he became the 1st Black engineer at the Paper Mill in Moss Point, MS and was routinely called boy and ******.

So this idea of unity...it just really throws me off. When Black people rallied behind Obama White people weren't unified with us in that decision. When White people rallied behind Bush Black people weren't unified with them in that decision. Sure, we come together in spurts. We'll join hands in tragedy, despair, and times of war. When it's over it's business as usual.

I'll watch people weaponize MLK against Blacks because he was so "unifying". Yeah...unifying enough that he was murdered. MLK was NOT liked in the 1960's just like Muhammad Ali. The love affair with MLK came after his death. But the victors write the story per usual.

I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if we aren't going to talk about who implemented the concept and how it became what it is. I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if you have no tangible solutions. If helping the people in the ghetto was a priority then there would be no ghettoes.

Difference between me and most, I'm not looking for the help, so in turn I don't want to here the *****ing and moaning about communities you don't ever have to go to. If I'm Michael Jordan I'm building a Jordan Brand factory right in the hood of Chicago. I'm training and giving well paying jobs with health benefits (since for some reason they tie healthcare to employment) to the residents to work there. This increases the property value and improves the schools by default.

So that's what I'm planning to do to help where I can. Create healthcare facilities and partner with the school systems to funnel these kids from high school, to a junior college/university, and right into a facility in their community made specifically for them to work at. Plans. Ideas. Solutions.

I'd bet a years salary you'll see a dramatic drop in crime rates and an improvement in educational outcomes. People need resources and opportunities. You can't just blindly throw money at things. You have to strategize and try to create solutions.

More importantly, nobody posting has ANY problem being divisive when they want to get their point across. Either you agree or you disagree. If one side is saying that this is their reality and the other side is saying that's not true we're supposed to come together because we both like the Saints? That's the unity we're talking about? Again, just odd.



Not only that but the lynchings, murders, voter suppression, and destruction of black property from the end of reconstruction to 1960’s, when blacks tried to use there rights in the south.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:11 AM   #243
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Originally Posted by rezburna View Post
The only thing about this entire thread that confuses me is the usage of the word division. The word is constantly thrown around. So I'm sitting back and wondering at one point were we not divided? The socioeconomic constructs of this nation were built on division. Since when have Black people and White people been united in America? Where is this America some of the contributors to this forum have been living in? I haven't seen it.

I go back and watch the debates from the 1950's and 1960's. White people would tell Black people that their rhetoric was divisive...during Jim Crow segregation. The irony. Those who went as far as to create legislation to keep the races separated telling the other group they're being divisive. It's an odd concept for me to grasp.

I'm also seeing the words "truth" and "reality" utilized. Well this idea of unity isn't rooted in any truth or reality. My great-grandfather didn't know anything about this unity when he went off to fight in World War II and couldn't eat in the mess hall with the White soldiers. He didn't know anything about this unity when he came back and eventually had to join in on the Civil Rights Movement.

My grandparents didn't know if this unity when they were attending segregated schools. My grandfather didn't know if this unity when he became the 1st Black engineer at the Paper Mill in Moss Point, MS and was routinely called boy and ******.

So this idea of unity...it just really throws me off. When Black people rallied behind Obama White people weren't unified with us in that decision. When White people rallied behind Bush Black people weren't unified with them in that decision. Sure, we come together in spurts. We'll join hands in tragedy, despair, and times of war. When it's over it's business as usual.

I'll watch people weaponize MLK against Blacks because he was so "unifying". Yeah...unifying enough that he was murdered. MLK was NOT liked in the 1960's just like Muhammad Ali. The love affair with MLK came after his death. But the victors write the story per usual.

I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if we aren't going to talk about who implemented the concept and how it became what it is. I'm not interested in talking about the perils of the ghetto if you have no tangible solutions. If helping the people in the ghetto was a priority then there would be no ghettoes.

Difference between me and most, I'm not looking for the help, so in turn I don't want to here the *****ing and moaning about communities you don't ever have to go to. If I'm Michael Jordan I'm building a Jordan Brand factory right in the hood of Chicago. I'm training and giving well paying jobs with health benefits (since for some reason they tie healthcare to employment) to the residents to work there. This increases the property value and improves the schools by default.

So that's what I'm planning to do to help where I can. Create healthcare facilities and partner with the school systems to funnel these kids from high school, to a junior college/university, and right into a facility in their community made specifically for them to work at. Plans. Ideas. Solutions.

I'd bet a years salary you'll see a dramatic drop in crime rates and an improvement in educational outcomes. People need resources and opportunities. You can't just blindly throw money at things. You have to strategize and try to create solutions.

More importantly, nobody posting has ANY problem being divisive when they want to get their point across. Either you agree or you disagree. If one side is saying that this is their reality and the other side is saying that's not true we're supposed to come together because we both like the Saints? That's the unity we're talking about? Again, just odd.
Now that's a conversation, and getting the history right, that's worth having...
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:23 AM   #244
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

What are your thoughts on reparations? Do you thing it would solve anything on a long term basis?

Honestly, as a conservative, I am starting to think it would be a good thing. Although it may not actually fix long term issues in those communities but it may help jump start better jobs and businesses in those areas. We just had over 6 trillion in stimulus with more coming. I think 250-300 billion in direct payments (25k per family of 4) to the black community may be a positive.
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:48 AM   #245
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
What are your thoughts on reparations? Do you thing it would solve anything on a long term basis?

Honestly, as a conservative, I am starting to think it would be a good thing. Although it may not actually fix long term issues in those communities but it may help jump start better jobs and businesses in those areas. We just had over 6 trillion in stimulus with more coming. I think 250-300 billion in direct payments (25k per family of 4) to the black community may be a positive.
I'm cool with that, but we have to first determine on our end what we would want those reparations to be. People are jumping out there making claims for reparations, but that's something I like to call "Nation Business". We have to approach these kind of situations as though we're an independent nation and come to the consensus on what's best for everybody. Our leadership is poor and oftentimes compromised. I need to be able to trust those leading the charge.

Personally, I feel that if you gave each Black person in America $25k or even $350k a piece we'd likely blow through it all with little to no progress. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but we'd end up giving that money right back to the government. I always liked the Nation of Islam's idea of reparations. Land in the South for an independent nation and the Israel treatment as it pertains to aid for a few decades. We work together as sister nations. As equals.

Like I said though, my community has to sit at the table and figure out what we want. I will acknowledge the fact that several Conservatives have approached me and have been willing to negotiate the terms on reparations. Both White Liberals and Conservatives seem to be warming up to the idea when just a few months ago it was definitive no. It's surprised me.

"The first need of a free people is to define their own terms.” - Stokely Carmichael
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Old 06-09-2020, 11:54 AM   #246
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Originally Posted by blackangold View Post
What are your thoughts on reparations? Do you thing it would solve anything on a long term basis?

Honestly, as a conservative, I am starting to think it would be a good thing. Although it may not actually fix long term issues in those communities but it may help jump start better jobs and businesses in those areas. We just had over 6 trillion in stimulus with more coming. I think 250-300 billion in direct payments (25k per family of 4) to the black community may be a positive.
You'll find me unique. I don't view the Conservatives as the ultimate enemy like most of my contemporaries. I do no differentiating between Obama, Clinton, Trump, or Biden. I actually listened to my ancestors. MLK likened Conservatives to wolves and Liberals to foxes. Wolves don't hid their desire to eat the sheep. Foxes are sneaky and might frolic and play with the sheep. They're cunning. Yet...the appetite is the same. I'm down to figure it all out together, as long as we can come to equal terms. I want the power.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:09 PM   #247
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

I truly believe that the idea of defunding the police department is a very bad idea. You think crime is tough now? Just defund the police department and crime will take over the streets allowing black people the opportunity to rob and murder at an even greater rate than they currently do. Of course white people will be stealing and robbing too but that doesn't get National attention. Floyd was a career criminal! Did you know that? Look up his arrest record. This is what we are fighting about? Why don't we just say Ex-Con lives matter? Most of the police brutality is against these outliers.

We once had the best education in the world and we have let education get weaker by defunding it the through the years. No child left behind was an egregious error in judgement. Yeah, dumb down the entire system so no one gets their feelings hurt. We are not even close to the top in world education....we're closer to a third world now. Go ahead. Defund the police and watch lynching's take place again since the Republican party refuses to outlaw it.

Oh, and I read yesterday that I should not say "I don't see color". WTF? I don't! Now I'm not even allowed to say I'm not a racist in my own way unless I say it another way that is apparently non offensive…..although I'm still uncertain if I can still call black people colored or African Americans. It was after all their idea originally. I followed their wishes and I'm still trying to change for the better. Every black generation wants to call themselves something different and I try to keep up. No one conforms to white society but whites must bow down to other racist narratives.

I'm white and I'm not ashamed! Is that too aggressive? Am I allowed to say that I'm happy with the skin I was born with? Oh and my family never owned slaves. Flame on.

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Old 06-09-2020, 02:14 PM   #248
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

I just don't see the value in that discussion in terms of where someone is now. Bad decisions are almost always the reason people fail in life. It is sometimes unfortunate events in one's life or something catastrophic. Most often it is bad personal decisions. Having multiple children at a young age is a bad decision. Not working regularly is a bad decision. Not doing well academically or learning skills are bad pmdecisions. Committing crime is a bad decision.
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Old 06-09-2020, 02:54 PM   #249
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Worst way to improve race relations ever? Reparations. Take from one race of people who earned it and give it to another race that didn’t.

The hate and resentment toward blacks will skyrocket.

No one alive today owned slaves
No one alive today was a slave
Blacks also owned slaves
Blacks sold slaves worldwide
White men gave their lives to free slaves
Most of America immigrated here after slavery was abolished
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Old 06-09-2020, 03:02 PM   #250
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Re: Backlash from Michael Thomas, among others, forces Drew Brees to clarify comments

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
These guys are professionals. Y'all are acting like they are children. They are grown up.

Because they sure are acting like it.
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