It's fine to play the "I just listen and don't rock the boat" position, if that's your thing, man. I happen to believe it's passive and unproductive. People are out there spreading absolute lies that are poisoning people's minds, and leading to the kind of idiotic reaction that Brees got. What he said was perfectly valid. Because it's obvious most people don't care for the time and place that the protests were happening. He wasn't commenting on their cause, itself. So if he can't have that opinion, why do the players deserve a pass for theirs, and acting like children?

I believe it is the responsibility of every adult to stand up for what he believes is right. I also believe it is the responsibility of every adult to know what they believe and why. The players cannot defend, with any logic, the kind of people they are propping up as victims in their petty social justice war. And short of being able to do so, they don't have the right to just get what they want from everyone else. It matters not whether they feel differently now then they did three years ago. Nothing has changed in three years to support their cause. A black man gets shot by the police, and it doesn't matter that there is video evidence of the suspect resisting arrest. It doesn't matter that more white people are killed by police, despite the black population accounting for the majority of crime in this country. These are little things called facts and reason. So I supported Drew's initial stance. I do not support his decision to crawfish.

Nothing wrong with your choices and/or actions. Nothing wrong with mine, or others either, so long as no laws are being broken. I’ve put boots on in combat, proudly retired from the Army, miss it, a lot, lol..., but I really don’t need anyone intimating what my “responsibilities” are, or “should” be. My guess is D.Brees, M.Thomas and M.Jenkins feel the same..., but I won’t speak for them. They’ve done it themselves already.

Actions have consequences, whether those actions are breaking the law or not. The false narrative being driven in this country is driving a mob that IS breaking laws. And before you say it; I'm not assigning direct blame to any one individual for acts of violence by others. This is about taking a stand against this culture. It's very much a culture war, right now, as well as a spiritual war. We won't get anywhere saying "well, free speech is dead, racial wars are being igniting on false premises, and cops are being defunded... But as long as no one is getting hurt, it's just opinions. Nothing more."

I'm sorry, man. But I can't get on board with that. And I didn't "intimate" what your responsibilities should be. I'm giving my personal opinion on what I think is our collective responsibility. I you think it's cool for people to spout things without facts, and have a raging fit over someone else's opinion, then I'm not sure what you're even about.

By the way, I don't know if Jenkins and Thomas feel the same as you about not needing anyone to tell them what their responsibilities should be, but I CAN guarantee that if they do, they don't apply that standard to others. Their reaction to Drew Brees being exhibit A. Not just telling him what his responsibilities are, but essentially telling him how to think.

I thought we were talking about a conversation between M.Thomas, M.Jenkins, and D.Brees and whether D.Brees lost the locker-room bc of that issue, or if he lost the locker-room bc of his play? Culture War Smultcher-War, who cares, it won’t change how I feel about things. Like I said before, you would be surprised to find out that I probably agree with you on many of the things you are stating. Only difference is I think there are valid arguments to be made against them also..., bc we are all different. The things that make up my beliefs are defined by everything that has happened to me in the past and what’s going on currently. I guarantee you that each person’s histories are different, and may very well be vastly different. Drew Brees, and the others involved, did what he/they felt needed to be done or said, based on their current team and peers, the current culture in that very specific locker room, among many other items. I can’t understand that dynamics bc I wasn’t there, I wasn’t a player in that locker-room, I am not a member of that culture in that organization. So, it’s not fair for me to say: “he shoulda done this”.

Virtue signaling has two faces, I’m a fan of neither.

We've already addressed the three original players in question, and the conversation moved onward to issues related to the subject matter involving said players. I assumed you were keeping up. It seemed you were. Now you're trying to push my points aside as being "not part of the conversation", I guess?

All that stuff you said about there being valid arguments to be made against my position, because "people are different", and your beliefs being made up of your experiences is really just a long way of not making a valid argument against my points. You keep saying you probably agree with me on most things, but you keep arguing with me, and yet not really addressing the problems I've raised with the players' stance; instead punting the conversation to "there are valid arguments to be made against it, and everyone is different".

You say you don't like virtue signaling. Neither do I. But your refusal to meet the issues I'm raising head on, and trying to show me that you are open minded, by not actually taking a position, is what I'd call virtue signaling. Everyone has a right to an opinion. Not everyone's opinion is right, however. There is no such thing as "my truth" and "your truth" and "their truth". There is only THE truth. The only way for any conversation to be productive is for all parties involved to actively search for that truth. It's not good enough just to say "well, I may disagree with them, but I'm sure they have a valid reason for what they believe", anymore than it is good enough to shout people down without hearing what they have to say.

I don't believe Drew thinks he did the "right" thing. I think he just wanted to save his butt from criticism rather than face the fire. But even if, for the sake of argument, he DID change is mind, that doesn't make him right, and I do not have to respect his opinion, and I have the right to say he was wrong. Reality does not back the narrative the players are pushing. Period. This is what I mean about everyone having a responsibility to know what they believe and why. Because, if you want your opinion to be respected, you better have the facts to back up what you say. The players don't. This thing you're doing about refusing to say that someone's opinion is wrong, simply because you don't know them, makes no sense to me. I don't have to know these people to know the narrative is false. We're not discussing their relationship choices, we're talking about this supposed "cause".