Week Eight QB Debate

AsylumGuido · 10-26-2022, 05:42 PM

TheOak · 10-27-2022, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch.

This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover.

Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place.

You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again.

All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible.

Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters.

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

subguy · 10-27-2022, 07:31 AM

I am glad they have finally decided, at least for this week. We can move on and create a gameplan that will work. Points have not been the biggest issue with Dalton at QB, even without starting receivers. Maybe one day, we can see how well he will do with a starting crew. We all know neither QB is the answer. It was Jameis Winston's job to lose and for now, he did just that.

The D has been the most egregious problem this year. Logic would say that by now they would be syncing, far from the case. The talent is there but the results aren't.

K Major · 10-27-2022, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by subguy

The D has been the most egregious problem this year. Logic would say that by now they would be syncing, far from the case. The talent is there but the results aren't.

The tackling has been atrocious over the last few weeks & we are currently #32nd in takeaways.

Penalties & giveaways (int/fumbles) have been equally bad. The Saints are 2-5 for a reason.

No energy & swag (Ceedy) is missing on defense for sure.

Source - > https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html

saintsfan1976 · 10-27-2022, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by K Major

The tackling has been atrocious over the last few weeks & we are currently #32nd in takeaways.

Penalties & giveaways (int/fumbles) have been equally bad. The Saints are 2-5 for a reason.

No energy & swag (Ceedy) is missing on defense for sure.

Source - > https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html

Poor players in place of starters playing poorly. Real issue.

mapcow · 10-27-2022, 11:24 AM

Put Michael Thomas....the prima donna in as QB

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not.

This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by saintsfan1976

Poor players in place of starters playing poorly. Real issue.

In other words ... injuries.

K Major · 10-27-2022, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by mapcow

Put Michael Thomas....the prima donna in as QB

No one outside of the facility knows the real severity of his injury but turf toe can sideline most athletes for MONTHS if not the season.

A good friend of ours (played at Georgia & later with the Giants) was telling us some horror stories about his TT. So many ligaments involved, so many moving parts, then boom it rears it's ugly head again.

I'd be shocked to see Michael on the field anytime soon in 2022.

AsylumGuido · 10-27-2022, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

No one outside of the facility knows the real severity of his injury but turf toe can sideline most athletes for MONTHS if not the season.

A good friend of ours (played at Georgia & later with the Giants) was telling us some horror stories about his TT. So many ligaments involved, so many moving parts, then boom it rears it's ugly head again.

I'd be shocked to see Michael on the field anytime soon in 2022.

There are three grades of turf toe injury. Grade one has a short 2-3 week turnaround. Grade two is 4-6 weeks. Neither of these require surgery. Grade three requires surgery and is the one that can end a season unless is occurs early. The latter is what Penning had and he's supposed getting close to being able to begin practice.

If Thomas had anything more severe than grade two he would have been placed on IR. I'd be shocked if he doesn't return within the next couple of weeks.

Dunnells is saying that he thinks Thomas may even return to practice this week. We'll see. It is still well within the timeframe for recovery.

Rugby Saint II likes this.

10-26-2022, 05:42 PM	#41
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Twitter

10-27-2022, 05:42 AM	#42
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by AsylumGuido In 2021 he was injured in the seventh of those ten games with a makeshift offensive line for all seven games. Ruiz was the only lineman to play in all seven. We went 5-2 in those games. We were also missing both Thomas and Kamara over part of that stretch. This year Winston was injured during the very first game of the season, a game in which the Saints won. He played the next two games with multiple fractures to his transverse processes before finally being held out to recover. Given the circumstances he has performed quite well. But, he really hasn't been given a good solid chance to prove what he can do with the Saints while healthy and with even most of the supporting cast in place. You, should never, ever, ever laugh at Bako's logic again. All you have managed to do it list the outcome of many of the chances that both Payton and Allen have given him, players without chances do not get injured on the field. It is actually somewhat impossible. Chance is also the wrong word to use, opportunity is what is given and every QB on this team has been given multiple opportunities to own the starting QB spot. Whether it be lack of talent, lack of consistency, or lack of health, none have been able to capitalized on the opportunities afforded them. They have all been temporary starters. Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not. subguy, SmashMouth and K Major like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

10-27-2022, 07:31 AM	#43
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,095	Re: Week Eight QB Debate I am glad they have finally decided, at least for this week. We can move on and create a gameplan that will work. Points have not been the biggest issue with Dalton at QB, even without starting receivers. Maybe one day, we can see how well he will do with a starting crew. We all know neither QB is the answer. It was Jameis Winston's job to lose and for now, he did just that. The D has been the most egregious problem this year. Logic would say that by now they would be syncing, far from the case. The talent is there but the results aren't. iceshack149, Crusader, Rugby Saint II and 1 others like this.
	Don't want em to get your goat don't show em where it's hid.

10-27-2022, 09:56 AM	#44
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by subguy The D has been the most egregious problem this year. Logic would say that by now they would be syncing, far from the case. The talent is there but the results aren't. The tackling has been atrocious over the last few weeks & we are currently #32nd in takeaways. Penalties & giveaways (int/fumbles) have been equally bad. The Saints are 2-5 for a reason. No energy & swag (Ceedy) is missing on defense for sure. Source - > https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html subguy, saintsfan1976, SmashMouth and 1 others like this.

10-27-2022, 10:42 AM	#45
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by K Major The tackling has been atrocious over the last few weeks & we are currently #32nd in takeaways. Penalties & giveaways (int/fumbles) have been equally bad. The Saints are 2-5 for a reason. No energy & swag (Ceedy) is missing on defense for sure. Source - > https://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html Poor players in place of starters playing poorly. Real issue. leilung, AsylumGuido, Rugby Saint II and 2 others like this.

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10-27-2022, 11:24 AM	#46
mapcow Just a Fan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,753	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Put Michael Thomas....the prima donna in as QB K Major likes this.
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10-27-2022, 11:30 AM	#47
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by TheOak Its interesting how many people believe that RBs or WRs need reps to "get a rhythm", but also believe you can swap QBs like they are socks and have a successful team. Season/Game planning require a QB that can be healthy more often than not. This is what I am saying. Winston has yet to be given that opportunity to get into that rhythm while healthy with the Saints. I'm not saying he'll be the answer, but what if he surprises us with that opportunity? He's still young enough to start for ten years. There's no promise any QB coming out next year would be any better. Dalton is approaching the final leg of his career and definitely wouldn't be a long term answer.

10-27-2022, 11:31 AM	#48
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by saintsfan1976 Poor players in place of starters playing poorly. Real issue. In other words ... injuries.

10-27-2022, 12:10 PM	#49
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by mapcow Put Michael Thomas....the prima donna in as QB No one outside of the facility knows the real severity of his injury but turf toe can sideline most athletes for MONTHS if not the season. A good friend of ours (played at Georgia & later with the Giants) was telling us some horror stories about his TT. So many ligaments involved, so many moving parts, then boom it rears it's ugly head again. I'd be shocked to see Michael on the field anytime soon in 2022. Crusader and shawnkytonk like this.

10-27-2022, 12:18 PM	#50
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Week Eight QB Debate Originally Posted by K Major No one outside of the facility knows the real severity of his injury but turf toe can sideline most athletes for MONTHS if not the season. A good friend of ours (played at Georgia & later with the Giants) was telling us some horror stories about his TT. So many ligaments involved, so many moving parts, then boom it rears it's ugly head again. I'd be shocked to see Michael on the field anytime soon in 2022. There are three grades of turf toe injury. Grade one has a short 2-3 week turnaround. Grade two is 4-6 weeks. Neither of these require surgery. Grade three requires surgery and is the one that can end a season unless is occurs early. The latter is what Penning had and he's supposed getting close to being able to begin practice. If Thomas had anything more severe than grade two he would have been placed on IR. I'd be shocked if he doesn't return within the next couple of weeks. Twitter Dunnells is saying that he thinks Thomas may even return to practice this week. We'll see. It is still well within the timeframe for recovery. Rugby Saint II likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill