Head Coach Material

subguy · 11-11-2022, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making.

Is it necessary to bring in a political talking point?

shawnkytonk · 11-09-2022, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

It's beyond ridiculous what I read some days.

neugey · 11-09-2022, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

Not the injuries holistically, but the general age of the team is a problem. We have the second oldest team in the league, second only to Tampa (whose age situation is skewed by 45 year old Brady). That generally means more injuries, plus we have a high percentage of players who have reached their ceiling and the room for drastic improvement with a youth movement (like you are seeing with the Eagles and Giants) just isn't there.

And to be fair, half of the problem of CSP being gone is the removal of his offensive mind. To me the loss to the Ravens was mostly on Carmichael ... Taysom with very limited snaps/touches and rarely every using Kamara on outside runs (not even off tackle runs) continues to infuriate me. Easier to defend Kamara when you know it's an A or B gap run all day.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by neugey

Not the injuries holistically, but the general age of the team is a problem. We have the second oldest team in the league, second only to Tampa (whose age situation is skewed by 45 year old Brady). That generally means more injuries, plus we have a high percentage of players who have reached their ceiling and the room for drastic improvement with a youth movement (like you are seeing with the Eagles and Giants) just isn't there.

And to be fair, half of the problem of CSP being gone is the removal of his offensive mind. To me the loss to the Ravens was mostly on Carmichael ... Taysom with very limited snaps/touches and rarely every using Kamara on outside runs (not even off tackle runs) continues to infuriate me. Easier to defend Kamara when you know it's an A or B gap run all day.

Fair enough. But there’s only so much Allen can do to make the team younger in one offseason. And again, I’m not touting him or his performance. I’m just saying judging him by what he’s had to work with is not an honest evaluation. Again, Sean Payton was 9-8 with this same basic team except he had better safties and a better oline.

vpheughan · 11-09-2022, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Fair enough. But there’s only so much Allen can do to make the team younger in one offseason. And again, I’m not touting him or his performance. I’m just saying judging him by what he’s had to work with is not an honest evaluation. Again, Sean Payton was 9-8 with this same basic team except he had better safties and a better oline.

I understand your point but comparing what Dennis Allen has done to Sean Payton's last year is not apples to apples.

Sean Payton was 9-8 and not with a "better oline".
That "better oline" had the starting five playing a total of 22 snaps together last season. The team set the NFL record for fielding the most starters in a single season and lost their starting quarterback in Week 8 to an injury.

No Wil Lutz might’ve been the biggest blow of all. The trio of Johnson, Aldrick Rosas, and Cody Parkey missed a combined three field goals and five extra points. The Saints lost back-to-back games to the Falcons and Titans, both narrow two-point victories.

They’re not the first team to traverse the pitfalls of replacing a longtime franchise quarterback but they may be the first to start four quarterbacks (after losing their starter in Week 8) behind an injury-riddled offensive line missing both starting tackles and left guard.

For perspective, the Denver Broncos went 6-10 following Elway’s retirement in 1999 and didn’t win another playoff game until 2005. Steve Young retired unexpectedly following a concussion in 1999; the 49ers went 6-10 in 2000 and struggled for years until Jim Harbaugh arrived. Troy Aikman had a great supporting cast and retired on top in 2000. Dallas went 5-11 the next year and floundered until Tony Romo. After going 6-10 following Jim Kelly’s retirement in 1996, the Buffalo Bills had a 17-year postseason drought until Josh Allen showed up in 2018.

FinSaint · 11-09-2022, 02:07 PM

Well, they were 9-8 while breaking the NFL record for most games missed by injuries and signing guys of the street on Thursday to start on Sunday.

halloween 65 · 11-09-2022, 05:23 PM

the record reflex everthing, either you win or lose on sunday. if we didn't have depth, not on the fans. payton pulled things together year in and year out. you can say the qb. situation is what's missing, can make any excuse about any position but allen was left pretty good and has yet to show he's capable of doing anything at all. it's not my fault or your fault, he was given the keys to the kinddom and everyone knows it say what you want. he$$ even as a dc payton give him players, coaches and even a mentor( co whatever the title was) to build his pretty little resume', never before had payton tried to give any other dc the amount of tools needed to succeed but he did for allen. allen should be fired, he's in way above his head and is not going to get any better.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

. payton pulled things together year in and year out.

but allen was left pretty good
.

Payton did not pull things together year in and out. He had three 7-9 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 5 at one point. This was with prime Brees.

How was Allen left pretty good with the WRs/TE/DBs/QB situation that injuries have forced him to play with this year? Be real.

halloween 65 · 11-09-2022, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

Payton did not pull things together year in and out. He had three 7-9 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 5 at one point. This was with prime Brees.

How was Allen left pretty good with the WRs/TE/DBs/QB situation that injuries have forced him to play with this year? Be real.

allen had wr's and was stacked at db.'s, we haven't had a good te well before allen so i consider that a wash, the qb. i'll bite on, he also was left with a really good d, it's his fault he let go the db's and that is being real.allens a joke as a hc, a joke we're stuck with it seems.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

allen had wr's and was stacked at db.'s, we haven't had a good te well before allen so i consider that a wash, the qb. i'll bite on, he also was left with a really good d, it's his fault he let go the db's and that is being real.allens a joke as a hc, a joke we're stuck with it seems.

Kevin White, trequan smith and Callaway are good WRs huh? and it’s Allen’s fault that they couldn’t afford CGJ and the safeties they lost in the off-season? Again, respect your opinion but you aren’t looking at things Objectively. This is the same team that the great Sean Payton was 9-8 with last year except we are worse off BY FAR at the safety spot and now at LB with Werner out. That’s a fact. It’s not Allen’s fault the economics dictated he lose the players he did.

11-11-2022, 05:33 AM	#1
subguy 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: FL Posts: 2,099	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by AsylumGuido And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making. Is it necessary to bring in a political talking point?

11-09-2022, 11:43 AM	#2
shawnkytonk 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Denver>Memphis>Mississippi Posts: 741	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. It's beyond ridiculous what I read some days. SmashMouth likes this.

11-09-2022, 06:14 PM	#3
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,820 Blog Entries: 13	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. Not the injuries holistically, but the general age of the team is a problem. We have the second oldest team in the league, second only to Tampa (whose age situation is skewed by 45 year old Brady). That generally means more injuries, plus we have a high percentage of players who have reached their ceiling and the room for drastic improvement with a youth movement (like you are seeing with the Eagles and Giants) just isn't there. And to be fair, half of the problem of CSP being gone is the removal of his offensive mind. To me the loss to the Ravens was mostly on Carmichael ... Taysom with very limited snaps/touches and rarely every using Kamara on outside runs (not even off tackle runs) continues to infuriate me. Easier to defend Kamara when you know it's an A or B gap run all day.

11-09-2022, 06:21 PM	#4
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by neugey Not the injuries holistically, but the general age of the team is a problem. We have the second oldest team in the league, second only to Tampa (whose age situation is skewed by 45 year old Brady). That generally means more injuries, plus we have a high percentage of players who have reached their ceiling and the room for drastic improvement with a youth movement (like you are seeing with the Eagles and Giants) just isn't there. And to be fair, half of the problem of CSP being gone is the removal of his offensive mind. To me the loss to the Ravens was mostly on Carmichael ... Taysom with very limited snaps/touches and rarely every using Kamara on outside runs (not even off tackle runs) continues to infuriate me. Easier to defend Kamara when you know it's an A or B gap run all day. Fair enough. But there’s only so much Allen can do to make the team younger in one offseason. And again, I’m not touting him or his performance. I’m just saying judging him by what he’s had to work with is not an honest evaluation. Again, Sean Payton was 9-8 with this same basic team except he had better safties and a better oline.

11-09-2022, 09:42 PM	#5
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,543	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint Fair enough. But there’s only so much Allen can do to make the team younger in one offseason. And again, I’m not touting him or his performance. I’m just saying judging him by what he’s had to work with is not an honest evaluation. Again, Sean Payton was 9-8 with this same basic team except he had better safties and a better oline. I understand your point but comparing what Dennis Allen has done to Sean Payton's last year is not apples to apples. Sean Payton was 9-8 and not with a "better oline". That "better oline" had the starting five playing a total of 22 snaps together last season. The team set the NFL record for fielding the most starters in a single season and lost their starting quarterback in Week 8 to an injury. No Wil Lutz might’ve been the biggest blow of all. The trio of Johnson, Aldrick Rosas, and Cody Parkey missed a combined three field goals and five extra points. The Saints lost back-to-back games to the Falcons and Titans, both narrow two-point victories. They’re not the first team to traverse the pitfalls of replacing a longtime franchise quarterback but they may be the first to start four quarterbacks (after losing their starter in Week 8) behind an injury-riddled offensive line missing both starting tackles and left guard. For perspective, the Denver Broncos went 6-10 following Elway’s retirement in 1999 and didn’t win another playoff game until 2005. Steve Young retired unexpectedly following a concussion in 1999; the 49ers went 6-10 in 2000 and struggled for years until Jim Harbaugh arrived. Troy Aikman had a great supporting cast and retired on top in 2000. Dallas went 5-11 the next year and floundered until Tony Romo. After going 6-10 following Jim Kelly’s retirement in 1996, the Buffalo Bills had a 17-year postseason drought until Josh Allen showed up in 2018.
vpheughan 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,543	"Your worst enemy, he reflected, was your own nervous system. At any moment the tension inside you was liable to translate itself into some visible symptom." Winston Smith

11-09-2022, 02:07 PM	#6
FinSaint Site Donor 2015 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Finland... formerly Southern Virginia Posts: 4,963	Re: Head Coach Material Well, they were 9-8 while breaking the NFL record for most games missed by injuries and signing guys of the street on Thursday to start on Sunday. Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

11-09-2022, 05:23 PM	#7
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Head Coach Material the record reflex everthing, either you win or lose on sunday. if we didn't have depth, not on the fans. payton pulled things together year in and year out. you can say the qb. situation is what's missing, can make any excuse about any position but allen was left pretty good and has yet to show he's capable of doing anything at all. it's not my fault or your fault, he was given the keys to the kinddom and everyone knows it say what you want. he$$ even as a dc payton give him players, coaches and even a mentor( co whatever the title was) to build his pretty little resume', never before had payton tried to give any other dc the amount of tools needed to succeed but he did for allen. allen should be fired, he's in way above his head and is not going to get any better.

11-09-2022, 05:36 PM	#8
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by halloween 65 . payton pulled things together year in and year out. but allen was left pretty good . Payton did not pull things together year in and out. He had three 7-9 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 5 at one point. This was with prime Brees. How was Allen left pretty good with the WRs/TE/DBs/QB situation that injuries have forced him to play with this year? Be real. shawnkytonk likes this.

11-09-2022, 06:04 PM	#9
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint Payton did not pull things together year in and out. He had three 7-9 seasons in a row and 4 seasons out of 5 at one point. This was with prime Brees. How was Allen left pretty good with the WRs/TE/DBs/QB situation that injuries have forced him to play with this year? Be real. allen had wr's and was stacked at db.'s, we haven't had a good te well before allen so i consider that a wash, the qb. i'll bite on, he also was left with a really good d, it's his fault he let go the db's and that is being real.allens a joke as a hc, a joke we're stuck with it seems.