Head Coach Material

Rell&Gold · 11-13-2022, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So if Josh Allen or Mahomes or Hurts goes down with a season ending injury then the Bills, Chiefs or Eagles still should be favored to win the SB? Sorry, but I don’t agree and I guarantee Vegas odds would agree with me. It’s not an “excuse”. It’s reality.

What does that have to do with the Saints? Where is the correlation in your "What if" scenario?

Boston Saint · 11-14-2022, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

What does that have to do with the Saints? Where is the correlation in your "What if" scenario?

It has to do with recognizing that injuries play a part in what a team’s capabilities and expectations are. Just as having one key player (like your starting QB) out is a big deal, having three key players out on the Oline is as well. In the Saints case they have both.

Rell&Gold · 11-13-2022, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

So if Josh Allen or Mahomes or Hurts goes down with a season ending injury then the Bills, Chiefs or Eagles still should be favored to win the SB? Sorry, but I don’t agree and I guarantee Vegas odds would agree with me. It’s not an “excuse”. It’s reality.

That's not even the Saints situation make it make sense ........it's convenient to blame the losses on injuries once we've lost the game.

cars4dylan · 11-14-2022, 11:51 AM

Discipline is a head coach's realm and this team is playing undisciplined, plain and simple.

I don't think you can fault the coach for the health of players but you can sure fault the coach for lack of discipline.

I like having a coach that is cool under pressure.
I don't like a coach that is seemingly feckless, for lack of a better term.
I want to see a coach pissed off that a 15 year O-Coordinator is running plays without the best weapons on the field on critical downs.

I want to see a little fire in the belly, a little "piss & vinegar" after a 3-7 run into a season of mediocrity and of subpar performance by your team.

I just don't feel DA has that and hasn't shown the ability to have that trait either.

All this wanting him gone though doesn't help either as we're several pages deep and I've not seen one coach out there listed who is more deserving of the job. Problem is next year there is no magical wand fix for the QB. It won't be in the draft unless other teams miss on a QB and a diamond in the rough is found in the 2nd or later round. Or if a team pays us a 1st Rd pick for Payton's rights, but that's not likely to happen either.

As with most forum topics it's interesting mental masturbation but in the end we'll wait and see. Call our shots after the fact and gloat or sulk accordingly.

All that stated, if someone posts Urban Meyer would be a good coach you deserve to have posting rights revoked for eternity.

AsylumGuido · 11-13-2022, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

Respect but no those are excuses. We haven't lost any of those games because of injuries. We've been in every game except the Ravens and maybe Carolina with or without certain players. There were still opportunities to be had after those plays in both of those games big plays and momentum changers no doubt there was still football to be played. Everyone is injured that's why you have and "Off-season" to prepare your counter measures. Co defensive coordinator but the head coach is calling the defensive plays? Coaches decision. Trading Chauncey for a fourth round pick coaches decision. Not resigning marcus Williams partial coaches decision or influence at the least. Trading away picks for a WR leaving unable to fill other obvious and immediate holes. I.E DT OL RB2 there were opportunities to add way more to this roster and they lost more than they gained. Offensive playcalling AND PERSONNEL?. This team is 3-6 because of coaching. Even with ALL the injuries the Saints have had they have been in every game excluding the Ravens and Panthers. That's not injuries we lost with Michael Thomas we lost with Jarvis we lost Jameis, as you stated you weren't shocked by some of the injuries with we lost father games because we couldn't close out . If this was coach that was brand new to the organization I would give him the benefit of the doubt you're giving him if this was a first time head coach situation. DA is an experienced coach who was handed some nice car keys and he just drove the car never gets it maintenance just gas and oil change maybe a tire here and there.

Injuries have absolutely been a reason for many of the Saints' difficulties. When you are forced to field a team made up of backups you cannot be expected to compete at the same level as with a team filled with starters. That is NOT an excuse. As Boston pointed out, that is an absolute reality.

Rell&Gold · 11-13-2022, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Injuries have absolutely been a reason for many of the Saints' difficulties. When you are forced to field a team made up of backups you cannot be expected to compete at the same level as with a team filled with starters. That is NOT an excuse. As Boston pointed out, that is an absolute reality.

Like I said injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Cardinals injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Bengals I juries weren't why we lost to the Bucs or Panthers We beat Seattle with injuries they lost their starting rb for the season that game Cardinals had plenty of injuries facing us. You all are making excuses Chargers have plenty injuries they have a decent record. Jets had injuries. Injuries are apart of the game. Ravens beat us with injuries to key players, WR, TE RB1 n RB2 Safety. Steelers have injuries look like they know how to overcome. With or without injuires Ssints have been in majority of these games injuries are excuses just like some guys say you can't blame the refs.

AsylumGuido · 11-13-2022, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rell&Gold

Like I said injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Cardinals injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Bengals I juries weren't why we lost to the Bucs or Panthers We beat Seattle with injuries they lost their starting rb for the season that game Cardinals had plenty of injuries facing us. You all are making excuses Chargers have plenty injuries they have a decent record. Jets had injuries. Injuries are apart of the game. Ravens beat us with injuries to key players, WR, TE RB1 n RB2 Safety. Steelers have injuries look like they know how to overcome. With or without injuires Ssints have been in majority of these games injuries are excuses just like some guys say you can't blame the refs.

I said injuries are A reason that has led to losses. Not the reason. You make our point by saying that the Saints "have been in majority of these games" even with the injuries. Had we not been missing the vast number of key starters we would have likely won most, if not all, of those games. THAT is not an excuse. It is reality. A very tangible reason.

BakoSaint · 11-09-2022, 10:44 AM

At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen.

Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister.

I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis.

Boston Saint · 11-09-2022, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen.

Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister.

I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis.

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

AsylumGuido · 11-09-2022, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Boston Saint

The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK.

And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making.

11-13-2022, 02:58 PM	#1
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint So if Josh Allen or Mahomes or Hurts goes down with a season ending injury then the Bills, Chiefs or Eagles still should be favored to win the SB? Sorry, but I don’t agree and I guarantee Vegas odds would agree with me. It’s not an “excuse”. It’s reality. What does that have to do with the Saints? Where is the correlation in your "What if" scenario?

11-14-2022, 10:54 AM	#2
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Rell&Gold What does that have to do with the Saints? Where is the correlation in your "What if" scenario? It has to do with recognizing that injuries play a part in what a team’s capabilities and expectations are. Just as having one key player (like your starting QB) out is a big deal, having three key players out on the Oline is as well. In the Saints case they have both.

11-13-2022, 03:03 PM	#3
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint So if Josh Allen or Mahomes or Hurts goes down with a season ending injury then the Bills, Chiefs or Eagles still should be favored to win the SB? Sorry, but I don’t agree and I guarantee Vegas odds would agree with me. It’s not an “excuse”. It’s reality. That's not even the Saints situation make it make sense ........it's convenient to blame the losses on injuries once we've lost the game. K Major likes this.

11-14-2022, 11:51 AM	#4
cars4dylan 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 106	Re: Head Coach Material Discipline is a head coach's realm and this team is playing undisciplined, plain and simple. I don't think you can fault the coach for the health of players but you can sure fault the coach for lack of discipline. I like having a coach that is cool under pressure. I don't like a coach that is seemingly feckless, for lack of a better term. I want to see a coach pissed off that a 15 year O-Coordinator is running plays without the best weapons on the field on critical downs. I want to see a little fire in the belly, a little "piss & vinegar" after a 3-7 run into a season of mediocrity and of subpar performance by your team. I just don't feel DA has that and hasn't shown the ability to have that trait either. All this wanting him gone though doesn't help either as we're several pages deep and I've not seen one coach out there listed who is more deserving of the job. Problem is next year there is no magical wand fix for the QB. It won't be in the draft unless other teams miss on a QB and a diamond in the rough is found in the 2nd or later round. Or if a team pays us a 1st Rd pick for Payton's rights, but that's not likely to happen either. As with most forum topics it's interesting mental masturbation but in the end we'll wait and see. Call our shots after the fact and gloat or sulk accordingly. All that stated, if someone posts Urban Meyer would be a good coach you deserve to have posting rights revoked for eternity. neugey, leilung, AsylumGuido and 1 others like this.
cars4dylan 100th Post Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 106

11-13-2022, 11:45 AM	#5
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,721	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Rell&Gold Respect but no those are excuses. We haven't lost any of those games because of injuries. We've been in every game except the Ravens and maybe Carolina with or without certain players. There were still opportunities to be had after those plays in both of those games big plays and momentum changers no doubt there was still football to be played. Everyone is injured that's why you have and "Off-season" to prepare your counter measures. Co defensive coordinator but the head coach is calling the defensive plays? Coaches decision. Trading Chauncey for a fourth round pick coaches decision. Not resigning marcus Williams partial coaches decision or influence at the least. Trading away picks for a WR leaving unable to fill other obvious and immediate holes. I.E DT OL RB2 there were opportunities to add way more to this roster and they lost more than they gained. Offensive playcalling AND PERSONNEL?. This team is 3-6 because of coaching. Even with ALL the injuries the Saints have had they have been in every game excluding the Ravens and Panthers. That's not injuries we lost with Michael Thomas we lost with Jarvis we lost Jameis, as you stated you weren't shocked by some of the injuries with we lost father games because we couldn't close out . If this was coach that was brand new to the organization I would give him the benefit of the doubt you're giving him if this was a first time head coach situation. DA is an experienced coach who was handed some nice car keys and he just drove the car never gets it maintenance just gas and oil change maybe a tire here and there. Injuries have absolutely been a reason for many of the Saints' difficulties. When you are forced to field a team made up of backups you cannot be expected to compete at the same level as with a team filled with starters. That is NOT an excuse. As Boston pointed out, that is an absolute reality.

11-13-2022, 02:57 PM	#6
Rell&Gold 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Washington, D.C Posts: 2,891	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Injuries have absolutely been a reason for many of the Saints' difficulties. When you are forced to field a team made up of backups you cannot be expected to compete at the same level as with a team filled with starters. That is NOT an excuse. As Boston pointed out, that is an absolute reality. Like I said injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Cardinals injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Bengals I juries weren't why we lost to the Bucs or Panthers We beat Seattle with injuries they lost their starting rb for the season that game Cardinals had plenty of injuries facing us. You all are making excuses Chargers have plenty injuries they have a decent record. Jets had injuries. Injuries are apart of the game. Ravens beat us with injuries to key players, WR, TE RB1 n RB2 Safety. Steelers have injuries look like they know how to overcome. With or without injuires Ssints have been in majority of these games injuries are excuses just like some guys say you can't blame the refs. K Major likes this.

11-13-2022, 04:53 PM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,721	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Rell&Gold Like I said injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Cardinals injuries weren't the reason we lost to the Bengals I juries weren't why we lost to the Bucs or Panthers We beat Seattle with injuries they lost their starting rb for the season that game Cardinals had plenty of injuries facing us. You all are making excuses Chargers have plenty injuries they have a decent record. Jets had injuries. Injuries are apart of the game. Ravens beat us with injuries to key players, WR, TE RB1 n RB2 Safety. Steelers have injuries look like they know how to overcome. With or without injuires Ssints have been in majority of these games injuries are excuses just like some guys say you can't blame the refs. I said injuries are A reason that has led to losses. Not the reason. You make our point by saying that the Saints "have been in majority of these games" even with the injuries. Had we not been missing the vast number of key starters we would have likely won most, if not all, of those games. THAT is not an excuse. It is reality. A very tangible reason.

11-09-2022, 10:44 AM	#8
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415	Re: Head Coach Material At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen. Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister. I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis. Rugby Saint II likes this.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,415

11-09-2022, 11:15 AM	#9
Boston Saint 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,137	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by BakoSaint At this point I would prefer Interim Head Coach Max Unger to Allen. There are many better options, but few worse than Allen. Injuries are a feature not a bug of how Mickey Loomis built this roster. Early in his tenure the Saints got lucky with two players coming off big injuries: Drew Brees and Deuce McAllister. Ever since that the lesson Loomis had ingrained is to double down over and over on injury history and love optimistic doctors who say its nothing. Loomis knew Winston was coming off a major injury, Landry was aging and injured at the end of last year, Thomas was injured 2 years and still not right. But he doubled down and signed two safeties who were older with more injury and suspension history and got rid of two younger ones. He chose Ingram as a RB backup for the senior tour instead of drafting a RB in the mid rounds. He traded our first pick to Philly because he was so sure we would be healthy this year because in his delicate kind heart he truly believes every injured player is going to be the next Brees or McAllister. I would like to get rid of both Allen and Loomis. But to say this is not mostly Allens fault is true. It is more Loomis’ fault. If I could only get rid of one, it would be Loomis. The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. shawnkytonk likes this.

11-09-2022, 11:41 AM	#10
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,721	Re: Head Coach Material Originally Posted by Boston Saint The injuries are Loomis’s fault…OK. And, of course, don't forget that global warming is a direct result of Loomis' decision making.