Can't Guard Mike

saintsfan1976 · 03-10-2023, 05:43 AM

I'm glad to hear MT is potentially coming back.

Nearly every ounce of vitriol that's sure to follow this news is understandable.

We've learned there's a relationship with Carr. That's gotta make you feel at least somewhat optimistic.

We are better with him on the field than not and if he's on the field, we are winning more games. Period.

Wins cure all and I'm ready for the next chapter in MT's Saints history.

AsylumGuido · 03-10-2023, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

I mean the progress should be Thomas accepting a pay cut. Why now Carr is here, would Thomas magically get healthy after being out for nearly 3 seasons?

It isn't magically, diz. He had surgery on that toe months ago and has been working his ass off to get healthy again. Don't forget he was fully healthy the first two games of last season and balled out for Jameis before dislocating and tearing those ligaments in the toe in game three. He worked his ass off recovering from TWO surgeries to get to that point.

AsylumGuido · 03-10-2023, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

Lol just tempering expectations I think, maybe my own, but either way

Just rubs me up the wrong way that Thomas / his agent actually gets a say in contract negotiations, when he's been absent for 42 games in the last 3 years.

It is vital for them to have a say. That's what makes it a "negotiation". The ONLY way to rewrite the terms of the contract is to have the player agree to any new terms.

AsylumGuido · 03-10-2023, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by dizzle88

100% agreed. Incentives is the way to go, knowing our luck they'll give him a 56M contract like Peat got after he nearly ended Brees' career.

Any new contract would undoubtedly include that type of language. Games played, snaps taken, yardage, catches, TD's, etcetera. Even though the missed time wasn't the fault of Thomas, he still was not available. We've all seen several veteran contracts reworked for these very same reasons over the years.

halloween 65 · 03-10-2023, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by BakoSaint

Maybe Thomas thanked Jesus for Carr’s signing not because of any plans to produce on the field with Carr, but because he realized the Saints absorbing Carr’s contract would make the Saints unable to afford the cap hit to cut Thomas and would force the Saints to negotiate a long term deal to continue paying Thomas to sit on the sidelines. Thank You Jesus for the leverage to continue to be paid $10 million or more a year for nothing when he should be playing golf with Victor Cruz and Terrelle Pryor on his own dime.

I had to give u a like. That was some funny stuff. Might also be very true.

Mr.Riaton · 03-10-2023, 09:51 AM

Well there’s a lot of speculation on CGM due to some of his actions, and understandably so, however I feel comfortable saying this…

1- he’s a fierce competitor and a stud when healthy and he knows it. He’d much rather be on the field doing what he loves and making defenders look silly.

2- I haven’t seen or read anywhere he’s a locker room cancer despite his altercation with Chauncey in practice. This organization has proven they will not tolerate locker room cancers.

3- His injuries were un-preventable and unfortunate and when healthy, he no doubt makes our offensive more dangerous.

That being said, hopefully this contract is much better for the team and incentive heavy

AsylumGuido · 03-10-2023, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

Well there’s a lot of speculation on CGM due to some of his actions, and understandably so, however I feel comfortable saying this…

1- he’s a fierce competitor and a stud when healthy and he knows it. He’d much rather be on the field doing what he loves and making defenders look silly.

2- I haven’t seen or read anywhere he’s a locker room cancer despite his altercation with Chauncey in practice. This organization has proven they will not tolerate locker room cancers.

3- His injuries were un-preventable and unfortunate and when healthy, he no doubt makes our offensive more dangerous.

That being said, hopefully this contract is much better for the team and incentive heavy

Amen, amen, and amen.

BakoSaint · 03-10-2023, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

It is vital for them to have a say. That's what makes it a "negotiation". The ONLY way to rewrite the terms of the contract is to have the player agree to any new terms.

Actually the concern about it being a negotiation or not might be the other way around. In order for it to be a negotiation the team has to have the ability to walk away, make a cut, or say no to the deal. If the player has all the leverage because the team has painted itself into a corner with the salary cap and cannot afford to pay a promised bonus or take a cap hit from a cut, the player can essentially write the contract and as long as it hits the cap number for this year that the Loomis needs, he has no choice but to sign it. Thomas could write reverse bonuses into the contract guaranteeing him 10 games a season off or extra money for anything under 40% target share or $1 million loss of reputation fee for each Saints loss and Loomis might have no choice but to sign if he can't afford any of the alternatives.

I would rather we cut Thomas but if we keep him I would certainly prefer an incentive based deal with very low base salary. However to negotiate that I think we need to present a credible threat to actually cut Thomas, which requires showing we have the cap space to make that work if needed.

AsylumGuido · 03-10-2023, 11:20 AM

So, it turns out that Thomas has known Carr since high school and personally lobbied him to come to the Saints. It sounds like he's really looking forward to playing with Carr and should be fully healthy and ready to go.

Get the deal done!

From the article:

Thomas and Carr were standout high school recruits from similar stomping-grounds in Southern California (Thomas attended William Howard Taft Charter High School in Los Angeles while Carr was two hours away at Bakersfield Christian High School in Fresno). Though Thomas is expected to be released at the start of the new league year on March 15, it’s interesting that he was helping to recruit Carr and celebrated the quarterback’s decision to sign with New Orleans.

SmashMouth likes this.

Rugby Saint II · 03-10-2023, 02:00 PM

Man, if Thomas could come back and play half the games I would be happy just getting to watch him get first downs again then flexing his biceps before going back to the huddle.

03-10-2023, 05:43 AM	#171
saintsfan1976 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,832 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Can't Guard Mike I'm glad to hear MT is potentially coming back. Nearly every ounce of vitriol that's sure to follow this news is understandable. We've learned there's a relationship with Carr. That's gotta make you feel at least somewhat optimistic. We are better with him on the field than not and if he's on the field, we are winning more games. Period. Wins cure all and I'm ready for the next chapter in MT's Saints history. iceshack149 and SmashMouth like this.

03-10-2023, 09:32 AM	#172
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by dizzle88 I mean the progress should be Thomas accepting a pay cut. Why now Carr is here, would Thomas magically get healthy after being out for nearly 3 seasons? It isn't magically, diz. He had surgery on that toe months ago and has been working his ass off to get healthy again. Don't forget he was fully healthy the first two games of last season and balled out for Jameis before dislocating and tearing those ligaments in the toe in game three. He worked his ass off recovering from TWO surgeries to get to that point. Rell&Gold likes this.

03-10-2023, 09:34 AM	#173
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by dizzle88 Lol just tempering expectations I think, maybe my own, but either way Just rubs me up the wrong way that Thomas / his agent actually gets a say in contract negotiations, when he's been absent for 42 games in the last 3 years. It is vital for them to have a say. That's what makes it a "negotiation". The ONLY way to rewrite the terms of the contract is to have the player agree to any new terms. Rell&Gold likes this.

03-10-2023, 09:37 AM	#174
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by dizzle88 100% agreed. Incentives is the way to go, knowing our luck they'll give him a 56M contract like Peat got after he nearly ended Brees' career. Any new contract would undoubtedly include that type of language. Games played, snaps taken, yardage, catches, TD's, etcetera. Even though the missed time wasn't the fault of Thomas, he still was not available. We've all seen several veteran contracts reworked for these very same reasons over the years. Rell&Gold likes this.

03-10-2023, 09:43 AM	#175
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by BakoSaint Maybe Thomas thanked Jesus for Carr’s signing not because of any plans to produce on the field with Carr, but because he realized the Saints absorbing Carr’s contract would make the Saints unable to afford the cap hit to cut Thomas and would force the Saints to negotiate a long term deal to continue paying Thomas to sit on the sidelines. Thank You Jesus for the leverage to continue to be paid $10 million or more a year for nothing when he should be playing golf with Victor Cruz and Terrelle Pryor on his own dime. I had to give u a like. That was some funny stuff. Might also be very true. Rugby Saint II likes this.

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03-10-2023, 09:51 AM	#176
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Can't Guard Mike Well there’s a lot of speculation on CGM due to some of his actions, and understandably so, however I feel comfortable saying this… 1- he’s a fierce competitor and a stud when healthy and he knows it. He’d much rather be on the field doing what he loves and making defenders look silly. 2- I haven’t seen or read anywhere he’s a locker room cancer despite his altercation with Chauncey in practice. This organization has proven they will not tolerate locker room cancers. 3- His injuries were un-preventable and unfortunate and when healthy, he no doubt makes our offensive more dangerous. That being said, hopefully this contract is much better for the team and incentive heavy iceshack149, AsylumGuido and Rugby Saint II like this.

03-10-2023, 10:07 AM	#177
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton Well there’s a lot of speculation on CGM due to some of his actions, and understandably so, however I feel comfortable saying this… 1- he’s a fierce competitor and a stud when healthy and he knows it. He’d much rather be on the field doing what he loves and making defenders look silly. 2- I haven’t seen or read anywhere he’s a locker room cancer despite his altercation with Chauncey in practice. This organization has proven they will not tolerate locker room cancers. 3- His injuries were un-preventable and unfortunate and when healthy, he no doubt makes our offensive more dangerous. That being said, hopefully this contract is much better for the team and incentive heavy Amen, amen, and amen.

03-10-2023, 10:35 AM	#178
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135	Re: Can't Guard Mike Originally Posted by AsylumGuido It is vital for them to have a say. That's what makes it a "negotiation". The ONLY way to rewrite the terms of the contract is to have the player agree to any new terms. Actually the concern about it being a negotiation or not might be the other way around. In order for it to be a negotiation the team has to have the ability to walk away, make a cut, or say no to the deal. If the player has all the leverage because the team has painted itself into a corner with the salary cap and cannot afford to pay a promised bonus or take a cap hit from a cut, the player can essentially write the contract and as long as it hits the cap number for this year that the Loomis needs, he has no choice but to sign it. Thomas could write reverse bonuses into the contract guaranteeing him 10 games a season off or extra money for anything under 40% target share or $1 million loss of reputation fee for each Saints loss and Loomis might have no choice but to sign if he can't afford any of the alternatives. I would rather we cut Thomas but if we keep him I would certainly prefer an incentive based deal with very low base salary. However to negotiate that I think we need to present a credible threat to actually cut Thomas, which requires showing we have the cap space to make that work if needed.
BakoSaint 1000 Posts + Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 2,135

03-10-2023, 11:20 AM	#179
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,220	Re: Can't Guard Mike So, it turns out that Thomas has known Carr since high school and personally lobbied him to come to the Saints. It sounds like he's really looking forward to playing with Carr and should be fully healthy and ready to go. Get the deal done! Twitter From the article: Thomas and Carr were standout high school recruits from similar stomping-grounds in Southern California (Thomas attended William Howard Taft Charter High School in Los Angeles while Carr was two hours away at Bakersfield Christian High School in Fresno). Though Thomas is expected to be released at the start of the new league year on March 15, it’s interesting that he was helping to recruit Carr and celebrated the quarterback’s decision to sign with New Orleans. SmashMouth likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

03-10-2023, 02:00 PM	#180
Rugby Saint II Bounty Money $$$ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5800 Airline Dr. Metairie, LA. Posts: 24,052	Re: Can't Guard Mike Man, if Thomas could come back and play half the games I would be happy just getting to watch him get first downs again then flexing his biceps before going back to the huddle.