Good Idea?

FanNJ · 02-22-2006, 07:34 PM

First of all, how do you know we'd get four picks by trading down? I could see us getting two or three

Sorry should have explained better. Any way shape or form of trading down should bring a second and third in this years draft combined with the existing first and second equals four. That's the logic. Without that scenerio there is no reason to trade down unless it is coupled with a player of need and caliber. Dealing hypotheticals here.

TheDeuce · 02-22-2006, 08:47 PM

Charlie Whithurst or Cutler big upside and Cutler can be the second coming of Marino in the right system.

Whitehurst? Whitehurst? Don't talk to me about Whitehurst. This guy is projected as a late round pick. Why in the world would we take him when we don't have a starting QB to beign with? He's nothing but a "special project." This guy is rated BEHIND Omar Jacobs and Brodie Croyle.

And Cutler.... why would we draft Cutler? If we trade down, then we need to trade down for defense, and defense only. If we stay at #2, we need to draft Leinart. Leinart is the highest graded QB by almost every scout and NFL expert. The only other person that should be considered at #2 is Vince Young. Cutler has mechanics issues, questionable character problems, and just isn't as accurate as Leinart. There's no way Cutler becomes a Saint. If he does, I'll never watch another Saints game again.

FanNJ · 02-22-2006, 09:14 PM

Hope you don't watch a game. Mecanic issues my arse, and what questionable character isuues? The only thing the kid was missing was 6'-4" recievers who have the ups and the seperation to catch floaters and an offensive line that gave you all day...Oh ya and two first round running backs that can catch swing passes. His release is quicker than anyone I have seen since Dan Marino retired.(Who by the way went late in the first because he was a Pothead and had questionable character) It's easy to be accurate when given all the time in the world. The guy throws up floaters my friend and in the PAC 10. So the numbers and accuracy should be taken in context.

If they go quarterback that is who I would like to see and for reasons stated above amongst others. I threw Whitehurst in because he has more upside than Leinart, who is just another Glorified Ken Dorsey and probably not even that good, at least Dorsey threw against some Defense.

I don't think quarterback is the way to go because that will not solve the problems.

And what the hell do analyists know that you can't look at and see whith your own eyes. If there right 50% of the time there doing well and cover it from so many angles a weathermans more accurate.

F-it I am done with this.

TheDeuce · 02-22-2006, 10:25 PM

Mecanic issues my arse, and what questionable character isuues?

I'm just telling you what I've heard from analysts on ESPN.com. Scouts, Inc has said (and they're not the only ones):

Still needs to improve in terms of mechanics and decision-making skills

And about the character issues:

Suspended for a game in 2002 after he was issued four misdemeanor citations by campus police for property damage, underage drinking and evading arrest.

Just telling it like it is. No need to get yourself all worked up over this Fan. I just don't think Cutler is that good. You can blame his team or whatever you want, but Leinart is clearly the cream of the crop in this class.

Sure he seems like a good guy

FanNJ · 02-23-2006, 07:46 AM

You are entitled to your opinion and I have mine, so no bad intended here. Just remember Marino dropped due to issues with Drugs

Quote:
Suspended for a game in 2002 after he was issued four misdemeanor citations by campus police for property damage, underage drinking and evading arrest.

If those are character issues then I am sure 85% of the draft would have poor character.

Cutlers numbers are down due to the team and division he played on. If you watch some film on the guy you will see he has all the tools and with the right coaching will far exceed Leinart very quickly.

Leinart is the faverite due to all the national media hype and the attention his team recieved. Not nocking the guy he was a great college QB on one of the top five offensive teams ever In my opinion. But that was a complete package. I just don't see him translating well to the NFL.

But of course only time will tell but I would be willing to bet good money that Cutler barring injury to either will have a better pro carreer.

FatiusJeebs · 02-23-2006, 01:14 PM

Like I posted in another thread....Leinart is sounding a lot more like Danny Wuerffuel. Great accuracy...no arm strength.

saintswhodi · 02-23-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs

Like I posted in another thread....Leinart is sounding a lot more like Danny Wuerffuel. Great accuracy...no arm strength.

Actually, Leinart is said to have arm strength similar to Peyton Manning. Would you say Peyton Manning has no arm strength? Just curious.................

FatiusJeebs · 02-23-2006, 01:38 PM

It looks like we are reading from different sources with different opinions. You read Peyton Manning...I read that he does not have enough zip in his throw for cutback routes.

FanNJ · 02-23-2006, 01:45 PM

Chad pennington may have more armstrength post surgery :P

saintswhodi · 02-23-2006, 01:55 PM

Jeebs, show me one article where it says Leinart has NO arm strength. I'll pull an article out for you:

Young vs. Leinart? Rose Bowl was only the beginning

By Dan Pompei - SportingNews

Last week, I told you I thought the Texans could not afford to pass on a quarterback in the draft, given the availability of Texas' Vince Young and Southern California's Matt Leinart.

This week, it's time to break down which player will make the better pick.

Skills

ADVERTISEMENT
There is no doubt Young has more athletic ability than Leinart. Young has more potential than nanotechnology. He is a New Age Randall Cunningham. He has Cunningham's long legs and arms and the ability to loft beautiful long throws without so much as a grunt. He runs like Cunningham, too, and he usually appears to be the fastest man on the field.

Young has rare playmaking ability. Some have compared him to Michael Vick in this regard, but Young is a more advanced passer than Vick was when he came out of school. Young isn't as elusive a runner as Vick, but he's bigger and stronger.

Leinart gets criticized way too much for his alleged lack of arm strength and alleged ordinary athleticism. His arm is about as strong as Peyton Manning's, and he's more athletic, which is to say he's physically capable of being the NFL's MVP. One AFC general manager points out the lefty proved his arm was plenty strong with one throw -- his frozen rope to Dominique Byrd that went for 52 yards in the USC-Notre Dame game. And Leinart's accuracy and touch are more impressive than his arm strength. He's not the scrambler Young is, but he's adept at avoiding pressure.Intangibles

Leinart has the best intangibles of any quarterback entering the draft since Manning eight years ago. Leinart has shown the leadership of a five-star general. He never comes unglued and is competitive and tough. He also reads defenses well and is capable of making checks. USC coaches say he can handle a playbook the size of the New York yellow pages.
Young's ability to step up in big games is legendary.

Style of play

This probably is what separates the prospects most. One AFC head coach points out that no quarterback who plays like Young ever has won an NFL championship and that plenty who play like Leinart have. Of course, we've seen a lot more play like Leinart than like Young.

But there is a reason for that. Leinart will be able to run an offense with precision, but Young will have to be the offense. An NFL team will have to tailor everything it does offensively around Young. "If somebody tries to force him into a standard NFL offense, there is going to be a pretty big learning curve," another AFC G.M. says. The team that drafts Young will have to allow him to run. At Texas, Young was in the shotgun almost exclusively, often running options and bootlegs.

Young probably will be the type of quarterback who relies on his feet early in his career and his arm later. As the hits pile up, running quarterbacks tend to find the pocket more appealing than the open field. Some struggle to make the transition from runner to passer. Runners also tend to be more susceptible to injuries.

Young, interestingly, has an unorthodox throwing motion that concerns some NFL scouts. But, as one NFC G.M. points out, it hasn't prevented him from getting the ball where it needs to go.

NFL readiness

One G.M. believes Leinart is the most NFL-ready QB since -- you guessed it -- Manning. He has thrown 527 more passes for 4,653 more yards than Young. And he has played in a pro-style offense.

"You're comparing a guy who has upside and clearly should adapt at this level to a guy who is the finished product," one of the AFC G.M.s says.

Leinart should win faster if he's in the right scheme, according to another NFC G.M.

Conclusion

When Young and Leinart were on the same field in the Rose Bowl, Young was the dominant player. That means something. But not everything. When evaluating a player, look at a body of work, not one game. Leinart's body of work is more impressive.

Young has a chance to be Michael Jordan in shoulder pads. He also has a chance to be Kwame Brown. There is virtually no chance Leinart will be a bust. In my comparison, Leinart wins, 37-31. I'd be happy to take either, but Leinart is the safer pick and, in my mind, the better pick for the Texans.
Senior writer Dan Pompei covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at pompei@sportingnews.com.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns

02-22-2006, 07:34 PM	#51
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	First of all, how do you know we'd get four picks by trading down? I could see us getting two or three Sorry should have explained better. Any way shape or form of trading down should bring a second and third in this years draft combined with the existing first and second equals four. That's the logic. Without that scenerio there is no reason to trade down unless it is coupled with a player of need and caliber. Dealing hypotheticals here.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

02-22-2006, 08:47 PM	#52
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Charlie Whithurst or Cutler big upside and Cutler can be the second coming of Marino in the right system. Whitehurst? Whitehurst? Don't talk to me about Whitehurst. This guy is projected as a late round pick. Why in the world would we take him when we don't have a starting QB to beign with? He's nothing but a "special project." This guy is rated BEHIND Omar Jacobs and Brodie Croyle. And Cutler.... why would we draft Cutler? If we trade down, then we need to trade down for defense, and defense only. If we stay at #2, we need to draft Leinart. Leinart is the highest graded QB by almost every scout and NFL expert. The only other person that should be considered at #2 is Vince Young. Cutler has mechanics issues, questionable character problems, and just isn't as accurate as Leinart. There's no way Cutler becomes a Saint. If he does, I'll never watch another Saints game again.
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-22-2006, 09:14 PM	#53
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	Hope you don't watch a game. Mecanic issues my arse, and what questionable character isuues? The only thing the kid was missing was 6'-4" recievers who have the ups and the seperation to catch floaters and an offensive line that gave you all day...Oh ya and two first round running backs that can catch swing passes. His release is quicker than anyone I have seen since Dan Marino retired.(Who by the way went late in the first because he was a Pothead and had questionable character) It's easy to be accurate when given all the time in the world. The guy throws up floaters my friend and in the PAC 10. So the numbers and accuracy should be taken in context. If they go quarterback that is who I would like to see and for reasons stated above amongst others. I threw Whitehurst in because he has more upside than Leinart, who is just another Glorified Ken Dorsey and probably not even that good, at least Dorsey threw against some Defense. I don't think quarterback is the way to go because that will not solve the problems. And what the hell do analyists know that you can't look at and see whith your own eyes. If there right 50% of the time there doing well and cover it from so many angles a weathermans more accurate. F-it I am done with this.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

02-22-2006, 10:25 PM	#54
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928	Mecanic issues my arse, and what questionable character isuues? I'm just telling you what I've heard from analysts on ESPN.com. Scouts, Inc has said (and they're not the only ones): Still needs to improve in terms of mechanics and decision-making skills And about the character issues: Suspended for a game in 2002 after he was issued four misdemeanor citations by campus police for property damage, underage drinking and evading arrest. Just telling it like it is. No need to get yourself all worked up over this Fan. I just don't think Cutler is that good. You can blame his team or whatever you want, but Leinart is clearly the cream of the crop in this class. Sure he seems like a good guy
TheDeuce 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,928

02-23-2006, 07:46 AM	#55
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	You are entitled to your opinion and I have mine, so no bad intended here. Just remember Marino dropped due to issues with Drugs Quote: Suspended for a game in 2002 after he was issued four misdemeanor citations by campus police for property damage, underage drinking and evading arrest. If those are character issues then I am sure 85% of the draft would have poor character. Cutlers numbers are down due to the team and division he played on. If you watch some film on the guy you will see he has all the tools and with the right coaching will far exceed Leinart very quickly. Leinart is the faverite due to all the national media hype and the attention his team recieved. Not nocking the guy he was a great college QB on one of the top five offensive teams ever In my opinion. But that was a complete package. I just don't see him translating well to the NFL. But of course only time will tell but I would be willing to bet good money that Cutler barring injury to either will have a better pro carreer.
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

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02-23-2006, 01:14 PM	#56
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	Like I posted in another thread....Leinart is sounding a lot more like Danny Wuerffuel. Great accuracy...no arm strength.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

02-23-2006, 01:27 PM	#57
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Originally Posted by FatiusJeebs Like I posted in another thread....Leinart is sounding a lot more like Danny Wuerffuel. Great accuracy...no arm strength. Actually, Leinart is said to have arm strength similar to Peyton Manning. Would you say Peyton Manning has no arm strength? Just curious.................

02-23-2006, 01:38 PM	#58
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973	It looks like we are reading from different sources with different opinions. You read Peyton Manning...I read that he does not have enough zip in his throw for cutback routes.
FatiusJeebs 500th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 973

02-23-2006, 01:45 PM	#59
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324	Chad pennington may have more armstrength post surgery :P
FanNJ 100th Post Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 324

02-23-2006, 01:55 PM	#60
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	Jeebs, show me one article where it says Leinart has NO arm strength. I'll pull an article out for you: Young vs. Leinart? Rose Bowl was only the beginning By Dan Pompei - SportingNews Last week, I told you I thought the Texans could not afford to pass on a quarterback in the draft, given the availability of Texas' Vince Young and Southern California's Matt Leinart. This week, it's time to break down which player will make the better pick. Skills ADVERTISEMENT There is no doubt Young has more athletic ability than Leinart. Young has more potential than nanotechnology. He is a New Age Randall Cunningham. He has Cunningham's long legs and arms and the ability to loft beautiful long throws without so much as a grunt. He runs like Cunningham, too, and he usually appears to be the fastest man on the field. Young has rare playmaking ability. Some have compared him to Michael Vick in this regard, but Young is a more advanced passer than Vick was when he came out of school. Young isn't as elusive a runner as Vick, but he's bigger and stronger. Leinart gets criticized way too much for his alleged lack of arm strength and alleged ordinary athleticism. His arm is about as strong as Peyton Manning's, and he's more athletic, which is to say he's physically capable of being the NFL's MVP. One AFC general manager points out the lefty proved his arm was plenty strong with one throw -- his frozen rope to Dominique Byrd that went for 52 yards in the USC-Notre Dame game. And Leinart's accuracy and touch are more impressive than his arm strength. He's not the scrambler Young is, but he's adept at avoiding pressure.Intangibles Leinart has the best intangibles of any quarterback entering the draft since Manning eight years ago. Leinart has shown the leadership of a five-star general. He never comes unglued and is competitive and tough. He also reads defenses well and is capable of making checks. USC coaches say he can handle a playbook the size of the New York yellow pages. Young's ability to step up in big games is legendary. Style of play This probably is what separates the prospects most. One AFC head coach points out that no quarterback who plays like Young ever has won an NFL championship and that plenty who play like Leinart have. Of course, we've seen a lot more play like Leinart than like Young. But there is a reason for that. Leinart will be able to run an offense with precision, but Young will have to be the offense. An NFL team will have to tailor everything it does offensively around Young. "If somebody tries to force him into a standard NFL offense, there is going to be a pretty big learning curve," another AFC G.M. says. The team that drafts Young will have to allow him to run. At Texas, Young was in the shotgun almost exclusively, often running options and bootlegs. Young probably will be the type of quarterback who relies on his feet early in his career and his arm later. As the hits pile up, running quarterbacks tend to find the pocket more appealing than the open field. Some struggle to make the transition from runner to passer. Runners also tend to be more susceptible to injuries. Young, interestingly, has an unorthodox throwing motion that concerns some NFL scouts. But, as one NFC G.M. points out, it hasn't prevented him from getting the ball where it needs to go. NFL readiness One G.M. believes Leinart is the most NFL-ready QB since -- you guessed it -- Manning. He has thrown 527 more passes for 4,653 more yards than Young. And he has played in a pro-style offense. "You're comparing a guy who has upside and clearly should adapt at this level to a guy who is the finished product," one of the AFC G.M.s says. Leinart should win faster if he's in the right scheme, according to another NFC G.M. Conclusion When Young and Leinart were on the same field in the Rose Bowl, Young was the dominant player. That means something. But not everything. When evaluating a player, look at a body of work, not one game. Leinart's body of work is more impressive. Young has a chance to be Michael Jordan in shoulder pads. He also has a chance to be Kwame Brown. There is virtually no chance Leinart will be a bust. In my comparison, Leinart wins, 37-31. I'd be happy to take either, but Leinart is the safer pick and, in my mind, the better pick for the Texans. Senior writer Dan Pompei covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at pompei@sportingnews.com. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns