shockey to saints trade stalls.. Update on Pg 11

kidbra · 04-11-2008, 09:41 AM

Agreed! 10 to 31 for Shockey just isn't worth it. I don't even think we should trade down from the 10 spot, unless its for Lito. We have an opportunity to draft a young explosive playmaker on defense (Ellis, Rivers or even Dorsey). Our offense was fine last year. We get Meachem this year. The addition of Shockey at the expense of a top ten defensive talent, and Harper, does not make us a better team.

Trading out for Lito? yes. Helps our defense. Trading out for Shockey? no. We still can't stop anyone.....

And who knows, maybe Eric Johnson will actually catch the ball this year, before it hits his helmet.....

pakowitz · 04-14-2008, 05:36 PM

7. I firmly believe — and so do three league sources I checked in with — that there is at least a 50-50 chance Jeremy Shockey is a Saint by the time the NFL draft is over.

FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein

Champ Kind · 04-14-2008, 05:54 PM

One thing is for sure, this Trade idea gets a lot of attention.
Every thread I've seen about Shockey is extensive and everyone has an opinion.
He would be a great addition, but let's hope that the subtraction we make to get him doesn't outweigh what he adds to this team.

hagan714 · 04-14-2008, 06:33 PM

10 t0 19 = Litto
19 to 31 = Shockey

jeanpierre · 04-15-2008, 12:12 AM

See pros and cons to taking on Shockey...

Love the guys passion (can we resurrect Kyle Turley, man would that be a tandem)...

Worry that the math may not work out for the Saints as Champ Kind pointed out...

But here is something I keep thinking about...the advantage of a TE like Shockey is to take advantage of less athletic LB's...

But isn't that why we have Reggie Bush; to use the WR's to stretch the field and create space for Bush...

If Bush can't run between the Tackles then you start him upfield six yards and let him outrun everyone...

Wouldn't Shockey compact that field or do you use him to wreck a Safety to increase the big play potential for Bush...

Just another puzzle to the Shockey to Saints conundrum...

jeanpierre · 04-18-2008, 06:42 AM

ProFootballTalk.com - SHOCKEY WOULD WELCOME A TRADE TO THE SAINTS

SHOCKEY WOULD WELCOME A TRADE TO THE SAINTS
Posted by Mike Florio on April 18, 2008, 7:16 a.m.
Though the party line from the defending Super Bowl champs has been that tight end Jeremy Shockey isn’t available, the rumors of a trade to the New Orleans Saints (with even guys like Jim Ross of WWE advancing the ball) have been rampant.

The New York media generally (with a couple of exceptions) has addressed this potential development only in connection with propagating the “we won’t trade him” vow. But now there’s a report from Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News that makes the possible move seem a lot more likely that many previously realized or believed.

Vacchiano writes that Shockey “has told friends he would welcome a trade” to the Saints, and that Shockey “has been sounding off for more than a month” regarding frustrations with the Giants. The frustrations, Vacchiano says, have been fueled by the rumors of a possible trade to the Saints.

From the team’s perspective, the basic position — “we’re not shopping Shockey” — remains intact. But Vacchiano has uncovered some details that make us think that the Giants are pretending to intend to keep Shockey simply in order to maximize his value via trade.

“Anything can happen in personnel,” G.M. Jerry Reese told the media on Thursday. “But right now, Jeremy Shockey is our starting tight end and we’re looking forward for him to be back on the field for us this fall.”

Sure they are. If by “looking forward” Reese means “dreading the very thought.”

Citing unnamed sources, Vacchiano reports that the Giants have been talking to two teams about a possible deal. The Saints offered a second-rounder last month; we’ve previously heard from a very good source that the Giants wanted a second-round pick and safety Roman Harper.

And perhaps the most remarkable aspect of Vacchiano’s item is his assertion that members of the organization agree with the theory that Shockey’s late-season injury and absence made quarterback Eli Manning, and thus the team, even better. That observation is the verbal equivalent of sticking a stubby thumb in Shockey’s eye, and it’s sure to make him only more vocal and/or demonstrative about wanting out.

For now, Shockey has said nothing publicly. We’ve got a feeling that, very soon, we’ll all be hearing from Shockey, unless he has privately received a guarantee that he will be sent to a new team before the draft.

ScottyRo · 04-18-2008, 08:01 AM

What is relevant about Shockey is how the team improved once he was out and what that says about team chemistry. I can definitely see a scenario where Manning would make mistakes during games simply because he was worried about Shockey's reaction. That's too much to think about considering the speed of the NFL. Once he was gone, Manning no longer had to add to his reads what Shockey's reaction might be.

I think this is more about how Manning reacted to Shockey than Shockey being a cancer or such. My biggest concerns about Shockey coming to NO are about his health and what we'd have to give up because I know Brees won't let himself be affected by any TE temper tantrums.

Champ Kind · 04-18-2008, 11:12 AM

I think the whole "when he went down, they won the superbowl" saying doesn't have a lot of weight. You can't say that they won because he wasn't in there. How does anyone know that they wouldn't have won without him?
I can see the argument that he is a loud mouth, but that doesn't mean he doesn't help their team. I think we will wind up getting him for less than what they were asking.
If we could get both Dorsey and Shockey, both Offense and Defense would be significantly better.
My plan B if the Shockey thing doesn't go through is Cottam. We'll hear his name quite a bit next year.

pakowitz · 04-18-2008, 03:18 PM

Michael Smith of ESPN just said he really believes the Shockey deal between the Saints and Giants will be done before the NFL draft. He said it would either be Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd round pick or Shockey for Roman Harper and a late 2nd day pick, not both like previously reported. He also added, if the trade not completed before the draft, it probably wont get done.

lsutigerfan · 04-18-2008, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by pakowitz

Michael Smith of ESPN just said he really believes the Shockey deal between the Saints and Giants will be done before the NFL draft. He said it would either be Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd round pick or Shockey for Roman Harper and a late 2nd day pick, not both like previously reported. He also added, if the trade not completed before the draft, it probably wont get done.

Yes I was watching it too and I would do the shockey deal for Haper and a 2nd day pick in a heartbeat.

04-11-2008, 09:41 AM	#51
kidbra Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 Agreed! 10 to 31 for Shockey just isn't worth it. I don't even think we should trade down from the 10 spot, unless its for Lito. We have an opportunity to draft a young explosive playmaker on defense (Ellis, Rivers or even Dorsey). Our offense was fine last year. We get Meachem this year. The addition of Shockey at the expense of a top ten defensive talent, and Harper, does not make us a better team. Trading out for Lito? yes. Helps our defense. Trading out for Shockey? no. We still can't stop anyone..... And who knows, maybe Eric Johnson will actually catch the ball this year, before it hits his helmet.....
kidbra Rookie Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5

04-14-2008, 05:36 PM	#52
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 7. I firmly believe — and so do three league sources I checked in with — that there is at least a 50-50 chance Jeremy Shockey is a Saint by the time the NFL draft is over. FOX Sports on MSN - Adam Schein

04-14-2008, 05:54 PM	#53
Champ Kind Nachooooooooooo Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Shreveport Posts: 71	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 One thing is for sure, this Trade idea gets a lot of attention. Every thread I've seen about Shockey is extensive and everyone has an opinion. He would be a great addition, but let's hope that the subtraction we make to get him doesn't outweigh what he adds to this team.

04-14-2008, 06:33 PM	#54
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 10 t0 19 = Litto 19 to 31 = Shockey

04-15-2008, 12:12 AM	#55
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 See pros and cons to taking on Shockey... Love the guys passion (can we resurrect Kyle Turley, man would that be a tandem)... Worry that the math may not work out for the Saints as Champ Kind pointed out... But here is something I keep thinking about...the advantage of a TE like Shockey is to take advantage of less athletic LB's... But isn't that why we have Reggie Bush; to use the WR's to stretch the field and create space for Bush... If Bush can't run between the Tackles then you start him upfield six yards and let him outrun everyone... Wouldn't Shockey compact that field or do you use him to wreck a Safety to increase the big play potential for Bush... Just another puzzle to the Shockey to Saints conundrum...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

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04-18-2008, 06:42 AM	#56
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 ProFootballTalk.com - SHOCKEY WOULD WELCOME A TRADE TO THE SAINTS SHOCKEY WOULD WELCOME A TRADE TO THE SAINTS Posted by Mike Florio on April 18, 2008, 7:16 a.m. Though the party line from the defending Super Bowl champs has been that tight end Jeremy Shockey isn’t available, the rumors of a trade to the New Orleans Saints (with even guys like Jim Ross of WWE advancing the ball) have been rampant. The New York media generally (with a couple of exceptions) has addressed this potential development only in connection with propagating the “we won’t trade him” vow. But now there’s a report from Ralph Vacchiano of the New York Daily News that makes the possible move seem a lot more likely that many previously realized or believed. Vacchiano writes that Shockey “has told friends he would welcome a trade” to the Saints, and that Shockey “has been sounding off for more than a month” regarding frustrations with the Giants. The frustrations, Vacchiano says, have been fueled by the rumors of a possible trade to the Saints. From the team’s perspective, the basic position — “we’re not shopping Shockey” — remains intact. But Vacchiano has uncovered some details that make us think that the Giants are pretending to intend to keep Shockey simply in order to maximize his value via trade. “Anything can happen in personnel,” G.M. Jerry Reese told the media on Thursday. “But right now, Jeremy Shockey is our starting tight end and we’re looking forward for him to be back on the field for us this fall.” Sure they are. If by “looking forward” Reese means “dreading the very thought.” Citing unnamed sources, Vacchiano reports that the Giants have been talking to two teams about a possible deal. The Saints offered a second-rounder last month; we’ve previously heard from a very good source that the Giants wanted a second-round pick and safety Roman Harper. And perhaps the most remarkable aspect of Vacchiano’s item is his assertion that members of the organization agree with the theory that Shockey’s late-season injury and absence made quarterback Eli Manning, and thus the team, even better. That observation is the verbal equivalent of sticking a stubby thumb in Shockey’s eye, and it’s sure to make him only more vocal and/or demonstrative about wanting out. For now, Shockey has said nothing publicly. We’ve got a feeling that, very soon, we’ll all be hearing from Shockey, unless he has privately received a guarantee that he will be sent to a new team before the draft.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

04-18-2008, 08:01 AM	#57
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 What is relevant about Shockey is how the team improved once he was out and what that says about team chemistry. I can definitely see a scenario where Manning would make mistakes during games simply because he was worried about Shockey's reaction. That's too much to think about considering the speed of the NFL. Once he was gone, Manning no longer had to add to his reads what Shockey's reaction might be. I think this is more about how Manning reacted to Shockey than Shockey being a cancer or such. My biggest concerns about Shockey coming to NO are about his health and what we'd have to give up because I know Brees won't let himself be affected by any TE temper tantrums.

04-18-2008, 11:12 AM	#58
Champ Kind Nachooooooooooo Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Shreveport Posts: 71	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 I think the whole "when he went down, they won the superbowl" saying doesn't have a lot of weight. You can't say that they won because he wasn't in there. How does anyone know that they wouldn't have won without him? I can see the argument that he is a loud mouth, but that doesn't mean he doesn't help their team. I think we will wind up getting him for less than what they were asking. If we could get both Dorsey and Shockey, both Offense and Defense would be significantly better. My plan B if the Shockey thing doesn't go through is Cottam. We'll hear his name quite a bit next year.
	I am the gatekeeper of my destiny, and I will have my glory day in the hot sun.

04-18-2008, 03:18 PM	#59
pakowitz The Dark Overlord Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: dirty south Posts: 3,450	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 Michael Smith of ESPN just said he really believes the Shockey deal between the Saints and Giants will be done before the NFL draft. He said it would either be Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd round pick or Shockey for Roman Harper and a late 2nd day pick, not both like previously reported. He also added, if the trade not completed before the draft, it probably wont get done.

04-18-2008, 03:28 PM	#60
lsutigerfan 500th Post Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: born And raised in NOLA, now live in Los Angeles Posts: 811	Re: shockey to saints? updated on pg 3 Originally Posted by pakowitz Michael Smith of ESPN just said he really believes the Shockey deal between the Saints and Giants will be done before the NFL draft. He said it would either be Shockey to the Saints for a 2nd round pick or Shockey for Roman Harper and a late 2nd day pick, not both like previously reported. He also added, if the trade not completed before the draft, it probably wont get done. Yes I was watching it too and I would do the shockey deal for Haper and a 2nd day pick in a heartbeat.