If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC?

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-02-2013, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

I beg to differ on the 2-3 guys.

Off the top of my head.
Vaccaro
Haralson
Johnson
Foster

We only need middle of the pack.

I don't see anyone of those guys starting all of them are going to platoon.
Vaccaro should start but probably wont granted he'll see a lot of time
J.Jenkins may start at some point as well
Haralson and Foster and Johnson is going to come in off the bench
K.lewis is the only real starter that we have new starting
I just don't expect to see a big difference but hey we can't be any worse than were last yr
Everyone says we only need to be middle of the pack. Well that's hunky dory and good. I want a nasty mean rip your head off turnover causing unit were we don't have to score 40 points and sit on the edge of my seat hoping its gonna be enough for the win
I wanna see some 40-3 games or some shut outs .Don't you guys get tired of standing around the water cooler at work talking about how good the offense is but have to make excuses for the defense

TheOak · 09-02-2013, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

I don't see anyone of those guys starting all of them are going to platoon.
Vaccaro should start but probably wont granted he'll see a lot of time
J.Jenkins may start at some point as well
Haralson and Foster and Johnson is going to come in off the bench
K.lewis is the only real starter that we have new starting
I just don't expect to see a big difference but hey we can't be any worse than were last yr
Everyone says we only need to be middle of the pack. Well that's hunky dory and good. I want a nasty mean rip your head off turnover causing unit were we don't have to score 40 points and sit on the edge of my seat hoping its gonna be enough for the win
I wanna see some 40-3 games or some shut outs .Don't you guys get tired of standing around the water cooler at work talking about how good the offense is but have to make excuses for the defense

I don't make excuses for crap. In the day of salary cap you can either afford an epic offense, an epic defense, or good of both. The rare year where a team has the top offense and defense is an anomaly ... Go back and look, most of your SB winning teams are lopsided.

You define "starter" as in on the first play but defense doesn't work that way, it's about packages and who has to be in to cover what for a good many of those positions. EG we don't sub on defense just to give someone a breather, a lot of it is to put the right package in.

So to tell me someone is going to be in 80% of the time but isn't a starter doesn't compute.

Can we get a snap in regular season play before we are polling the next defensive coordinator?

Lord_Saint83 · 09-01-2013, 08:41 PM

Its easy to blame the dc when the defense is not good and in some instances it is be it scheme or what have u. Then there are times when the personnel just isn't talented or too old or too young whatever. No matter how hard u try u cant polish a turd.

Vrillon82 · 09-02-2013, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83

Its easy to blame the dc when the defense is not good and in some instances it is be it scheme or what have u. Then there are times when the personnel just isn't talented or too old or too young whatever. No matter how hard u try u cant polish a turd.

Ive always felt that most players on our defense barely qualifies as starter material. With the exception of a couple notable guys like Jabari Greer or Vilma ( in the past) and now Lofton.

I think Gregg Williams got the most he could get out of them for a couple years there, a guy like Spags comes in and the guys just failed to learn his scheme, TBH I would of had more trust in Spags than anyone, might still do, I think our defensive players is the problem.

But I can tell you the one time we was playing with Bush and Quddus at Safety, seemed to of worked under Spags as opposed to Harper and whoever the hell else is at safety. Remember the 45-0 was it? thrashing of Tampa? It games like that that raises an eye brow to me for the fact his scheme shut out Tampa and then look back at potential problems on the defense more than any DC can handle or fix. I dont think Williams, Spags, or Gibbs was a problem. I think our players are the problem.

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-01-2013, 08:44 PM

im glad we have a offense that can put 40+ but wouldn't it be refreshing to know if we don't we have a shot at winning as it stands no we can score 40+ and still lose thats a lot of pressure to put on drew every week

|Mitch| · 09-01-2013, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

im glad we have a offense that can put 40+ but wouldn't it be refreshing to know if we don't we have a shot at winning as it stands no we can score 40+ and still lose thats a lot of pressure to put on drew every week

And how do you know that our defense won't be able to stop the points? Going off past irrelevant stats or the very vanilla 4-3 defense you have seen in the preseason?

No one knows what our defense will play like and all this Ryan getting fired is way premature...

homerj07 · 09-01-2013, 08:47 PM

At this point it's moot. This is a topic best saved for late February.

DISPLACEDFAN · 09-01-2013, 08:50 PM

I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs

pumpkindriver · 09-01-2013, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs

Hurumpfff, How quickly they forget, DOME PATROL!! (circa 87-95)

SaintFanInATLHELL · 09-02-2013, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN

I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs

What you are looking for simply doesn't exist in the NFL anymore. All the talent, and all the rules favor the offense. Like it or not, most fans enjoy the scoring and the League has accommodated that. 30 years ago it was possible to knock out QBs and receivers with impunity. In today's league pretty much anything other than pushing an offensive player down, and only after they have received the ball, results in a huge penalty.

In short defenses are hamstrung. So when the rules change, play to the rules. And the Saints have had that in spades over the last 7 years.

The 1985 Bears and the 2000 Ravens could not function in the 2013 NFL.

So like all teams today, you have to work with what you have. For the Saints, it's using scheme to slow down the opposition. It's improving personnel on the back end (Lewis, Vaccaro) to better defend the back end in wide open sets. It's opening up lanes for edge rushers to get to the QB.

The only consistent theme that has persevered is that defenses have to be able to stop the run. If a team can run consistently on a defense, then it is toast. I believe that the D-line is now a strength, not a liability in that area.

SFIAH

09-02-2013, 02:46 AM	#1
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by TheOak I beg to differ on the 2-3 guys. Off the top of my head. Vaccaro Haralson Johnson Foster We only need middle of the pack. I don't see anyone of those guys starting all of them are going to platoon. Vaccaro should start but probably wont granted he'll see a lot of time J.Jenkins may start at some point as well Haralson and Foster and Johnson is going to come in off the bench K.lewis is the only real starter that we have new starting I just don't expect to see a big difference but hey we can't be any worse than were last yr Everyone says we only need to be middle of the pack. Well that's hunky dory and good. I want a nasty mean rip your head off turnover causing unit were we don't have to score 40 points and sit on the edge of my seat hoping its gonna be enough for the win I wanna see some 40-3 games or some shut outs .Don't you guys get tired of standing around the water cooler at work talking about how good the offense is but have to make excuses for the defense

09-02-2013, 05:05 AM	#2
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,050	If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN I don't see anyone of those guys starting all of them are going to platoon. Vaccaro should start but probably wont granted he'll see a lot of time J.Jenkins may start at some point as well Haralson and Foster and Johnson is going to come in off the bench K.lewis is the only real starter that we have new starting I just don't expect to see a big difference but hey we can't be any worse than were last yr Everyone says we only need to be middle of the pack. Well that's hunky dory and good. I want a nasty mean rip your head off turnover causing unit were we don't have to score 40 points and sit on the edge of my seat hoping its gonna be enough for the win I wanna see some 40-3 games or some shut outs .Don't you guys get tired of standing around the water cooler at work talking about how good the offense is but have to make excuses for the defense I don't make excuses for crap. In the day of salary cap you can either afford an epic offense, an epic defense, or good of both. The rare year where a team has the top offense and defense is an anomaly ... Go back and look, most of your SB winning teams are lopsided. You define "starter" as in on the first play but defense doesn't work that way, it's about packages and who has to be in to cover what for a good many of those positions. EG we don't sub on defense just to give someone a breather, a lot of it is to put the right package in. So to tell me someone is going to be in 80% of the time but isn't a starter doesn't compute. Can we get a snap in regular season play before we are polling the next defensive coordinator? Danno, thebdj and saintsfan403 like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-01-2013, 08:41 PM	#3
Lord_Saint83 100% Blunt Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Saint Gabriel, La Posts: 2,754	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Its easy to blame the dc when the defense is not good and in some instances it is be it scheme or what have u. Then there are times when the personnel just isn't talented or too old or too young whatever. No matter how hard u try u cant polish a turd.

09-02-2013, 05:18 PM	#4
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by Lord_Saint83 Its easy to blame the dc when the defense is not good and in some instances it is be it scheme or what have u. Then there are times when the personnel just isn't talented or too old or too young whatever. No matter how hard u try u cant polish a turd. Ive always felt that most players on our defense barely qualifies as starter material. With the exception of a couple notable guys like Jabari Greer or Vilma ( in the past) and now Lofton. I think Gregg Williams got the most he could get out of them for a couple years there, a guy like Spags comes in and the guys just failed to learn his scheme, TBH I would of had more trust in Spags than anyone, might still do, I think our defensive players is the problem. But I can tell you the one time we was playing with Bush and Quddus at Safety, seemed to of worked under Spags as opposed to Harper and whoever the hell else is at safety. Remember the 45-0 was it? thrashing of Tampa? It games like that that raises an eye brow to me for the fact his scheme shut out Tampa and then look back at potential problems on the defense more than any DC can handle or fix. I dont think Williams, Spags, or Gibbs was a problem. I think our players are the problem. darstep and DISPLACEDFAN like this.
Vrillon82 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,127

09-01-2013, 08:44 PM	#5
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? im glad we have a offense that can put 40+ but wouldn't it be refreshing to know if we don't we have a shot at winning as it stands no we can score 40+ and still lose thats a lot of pressure to put on drew every week

09-01-2013, 08:49 PM	#6
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN im glad we have a offense that can put 40+ but wouldn't it be refreshing to know if we don't we have a shot at winning as it stands no we can score 40+ and still lose thats a lot of pressure to put on drew every week And how do you know that our defense won't be able to stop the points? Going off past irrelevant stats or the very vanilla 4-3 defense you have seen in the preseason? No one knows what our defense will play like and all this Ryan getting fired is way premature... pumpkindriver and saintsfan403 like this.

09-01-2013, 08:47 PM	#7
homerj07 In Doh We Trust Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 7,027 Blog Entries: 16	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? At this point it's moot. This is a topic best saved for late February. spkb25, pumpkindriver and saintsfan403 like this.

09-01-2013, 08:50 PM	#8
DISPLACEDFAN 500th Post Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: corning,ny Posts: 518	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs

09-01-2013, 09:49 PM	#9
pumpkindriver 500th Post Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Killeen, Tx. Posts: 932	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs Hurumpfff, How quickly they forget, DOME PATROL!! (circa 87-95) SaintPauly and saintsfan403 like this.

09-02-2013, 08:44 AM	#10
SaintFanInATLHELL The Professor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Lithonia, GA Posts: 2,783	Re: If Rob Ryan fails to fix the Defense Who's Next DC? Originally Posted by DISPLACEDFAN I don't know I guess I've always been defensive guy.i just like a defense that goes out and knocks your _______ in the dirt. Its just not something we have never had in the last 30+ yrs What you are looking for simply doesn't exist in the NFL anymore. All the talent, and all the rules favor the offense. Like it or not, most fans enjoy the scoring and the League has accommodated that. 30 years ago it was possible to knock out QBs and receivers with impunity. In today's league pretty much anything other than pushing an offensive player down, and only after they have received the ball, results in a huge penalty. In short defenses are hamstrung. So when the rules change, play to the rules. And the Saints have had that in spades over the last 7 years. The 1985 Bears and the 2000 Ravens could not function in the 2013 NFL. So like all teams today, you have to work with what you have. For the Saints, it's using scheme to slow down the opposition. It's improving personnel on the back end (Lewis, Vaccaro) to better defend the back end in wide open sets. It's opening up lanes for edge rushers to get to the QB. The only consistent theme that has persevered is that defenses have to be able to stop the run. If a team can run consistently on a defense, then it is toast. I believe that the D-line is now a strength, not a liability in that area. SFIAH iceshack149 likes this.
	Super Bowl Championships: New Orleans Saints:1, Carolina:0, Atlanta Chokers: STILL ZERO Only Atlanta choked in an unchokable situation... Life is definitely good.

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