Ingram- What do we do with him?

papz · 09-16-2013, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton

P.Thomas-5.9
D.Sproles-3.6
M.Ingram-2.8

P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat!

He's averaging less than 2 yards per carry this year. If he rushed the ball 4 times, we'd still be 2 yards short of a first down.

I understand our offensive line hasn't been great this year(so far), but good players can make yards out of nothing. Right now, Ingram just isn't very good. I'm not saying we should take the guy out of our rotation completely, but something has to change on the way we use him and we need to some making excuses for him when he's failing. His criticism in warranted. His ability to read and diagnosis plays since he's been here has not changed. His ability to create yards after contact has not changed. The only thing that has changed from week to week is the amount of excuses we can come up with to deflect from his performance.

And if you're going to knock Sproles for averaging 3.6 YPC, please knock Ingram as well. That said if we ran Sproles even at 3.6 YPC, we'd be moving the chains.

I hope he turns things around. I hope he turns things around here. But sometimes things just don't work out the way they're intended to... and we need to acknowledge that and stop forcing it.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 08:48 AM

For those members that havent followed the Ingram threads the past 3 seasons. We have had at least 5 Ingram threads per season, the first season it was a 75/25 split favoring Ingram proponents. The second season it was 50/50 split. Now in the second game of the third season Ingram has about 15% in favor.

I HOPE and WANT Ingram to do very well for the Saints, however he is not, and I will hammer him until he does. I will personally start a new "Ingram did well" thread each and every time he has a good game, and congratulate him. I am being as fair as I possibly can to the situation.

papz · 09-16-2013, 08:49 AM

Mark Ingram Career: (28 games)

TDs - 10
1st downs - 59
YPC - 3.8

Chris Ivory Career: (26 games)

TDs - 8
1st Downs - 75
YPC - 4.9

You know Oak, that point is brought up all the time when we're discussing Ingram but somehow people continue to ignore it.

K Major · 09-16-2013, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by The Dude

What makes you think the Giants want him? They just picked up Bradshaw. I say give him away or take him out back and shoot him. NVM save the bullet, just give him away.

I think you mean the Giants signed that nut Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw is now a COLT.

Mr.Riaton · 09-16-2013, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by TheOak

Look brother, is he horrible? No

Here are my issues with ingram:

1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents.
2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs.

Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock.

Is Ingram your guy?

No, Thomas is. I agree with you on that. But if Thomas was used like Ingram is, I wouldn't be as confident.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 11:10 AM

Bulls eye Fantasy Comments from Roto

Mark Ingram rushed eight times for 20 yards in Sunday's Week 2 win over the Bucs.

Advice: The Saints' insistence on trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is hurting them. Ingram was once again held under 3.0 YPC and this time got stuffed twice at the goal-line -- including once on a key 4th-and-goal spot. Ingram is not a receiver, so opponents know what is coming when he's in the game. He's also shown no power or elusiveness through three NFL seasons. Pierre Thomas should be getting Ingram's carries. Owners in normal-sized leagues can move on.
(Rotoworld.com)
Mark Ingram - New Orleans Saints - 2013 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

hagan714 · 09-16-2013, 11:18 AM

we have no options he is here for 2014 so start using correctly and stop forcing the issue SP.

TheOak · 09-16-2013, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by hagan714

we have no options he is here for 2014 so start using correctly and stop forcing the issue SP.

In that case, he is a change of pace back and gives PT a break. However.. and I emphasize a huge HOWEVER, if we continue to run Ingram, leaving Cadet and K. Robinson on the bench, if PT gets injured you now have Ingram on the field and no RBs with any NFL snaps other than Sproles to take snaps. It is time to see what Cadet and K. Robinson can do in the real world, no use keeping both on a roster to ride the bench.

I do not look at Sproles as a pure RB as I do the other 4.

ScottyRo · 09-16-2013, 11:36 AM

Stats aside, sometimes you just have to go with what you see.

When I watch PT run, I see a guy with a low center of gravity, great balance and vision, and strong, powerful legs.

When I watch MI run, I see a guy who runs more upright than most successful backs, someone who is more easily knocked down, and someone who can't find the hole.

Regardless of whether the opposing D has 8 or 11 in the box, these traits do not change. Think the D is keying on MI? That's his fault, too, for not being a threat in the passing game.

I wanted him traded last year when Detroit was so desperate, but think any trade talk is too late now. Value is too low.

SmashMouth · 09-16-2013, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

Loomis made a horrible decision trading back into the first round to draft him. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 but it will go down as a huge draft blunder. Nobody's perfect and Loomis is no exception.

IMHO, it's always detrimental for a team to give up multiple picks for a player. Rarely does it ever work out positively. Therein lies the main problem with Ingram, heightened expectations for which he has not lived up to.

09-16-2013, 08:47 AM	#71
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton P.Thomas-5.9 D.Sproles-3.6 M.Ingram-2.8 P.Thomas is an exception....the dude is a beast. Your right, stats can be misleading,but aren't YPC stats also? I have no idea why you think I'm using stats to lie....I'm making a point that Ingram is not all to blame here. He may not be the back we all expected him to be, but he's not as bad as some make him out to be.He had a couple decent runs, but people act like he did absolutely nothing at all. If that's the case, lets all bash Sproles for his 3.6 YPC game. Well look at that-I used a YPC stat! He's averaging less than 2 yards per carry this year. If he rushed the ball 4 times, we'd still be 2 yards short of a first down. I understand our offensive line hasn't been great this year(so far), but good players can make yards out of nothing. Right now, Ingram just isn't very good. I'm not saying we should take the guy out of our rotation completely, but something has to change on the way we use him and we need to some making excuses for him when he's failing. His criticism in warranted. His ability to read and diagnosis plays since he's been here has not changed. His ability to create yards after contact has not changed. The only thing that has changed from week to week is the amount of excuses we can come up with to deflect from his performance. And if you're going to knock Sproles for averaging 3.6 YPC, please knock Ingram as well. That said if we ran Sproles even at 3.6 YPC, we'd be moving the chains. I hope he turns things around. I hope he turns things around here. But sometimes things just don't work out the way they're intended to... and we need to acknowledge that and stop forcing it. TheOak likes this.
	Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege. All little common sense goes a long way. Last edited by papz; 09-16-2013 at 09:13 AM..

09-16-2013, 08:48 AM	#72
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? For those members that havent followed the Ingram threads the past 3 seasons. We have had at least 5 Ingram threads per season, the first season it was a 75/25 split favoring Ingram proponents. The second season it was 50/50 split. Now in the second game of the third season Ingram has about 15% in favor. I HOPE and WANT Ingram to do very well for the Saints, however he is not, and I will hammer him until he does. I will personally start a new "Ingram did well" thread each and every time he has a good game, and congratulate him. I am being as fair as I possibly can to the situation. thebdj and The Dude like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-16-2013, 08:49 AM	#73
papz Problem? Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Orleans Posts: 11,744	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Mark Ingram Career: (28 games) TDs - 10 1st downs - 59 YPC - 3.8 Chris Ivory Career: (26 games) TDs - 8 1st Downs - 75 YPC - 4.9 You know Oak, that point is brought up all the time when we're discussing Ingram but somehow people continue to ignore it.

09-16-2013, 08:50 AM	#74
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,619 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by The Dude What makes you think the Giants want him? They just picked up Bradshaw. I say give him away or take him out back and shoot him. NVM save the bullet, just give him away. I think you mean the Giants signed that nut Brandon Jacobs and Ahmad Bradshaw is now a COLT.

09-16-2013, 10:52 AM	#75
Mr.Riaton 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Broussard,La. Posts: 1,264	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by TheOak Look brother, is he horrible? No Here are my issues with ingram: 1. We is a 1st round draft pick getting out run by Undrafted Free Agents. 2. He is "supposed" to be our punch it through short down, goal line back.. He is not getting 1st downs and he is not getting TDs. Here is a question for you, Its the NFC Championship game, Saints 9 Falcons 14 we have ball on the 3 yard line with 5 seconds left on the clock. Is Ingram your guy? No, Thomas is. I agree with you on that. But if Thomas was used like Ingram is, I wouldn't be as confident.

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09-16-2013, 11:10 AM	#76
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Bulls eye Fantasy Comments from Roto Mark Ingram rushed eight times for 20 yards in Sunday's Week 2 win over the Bucs. Advice: The Saints' insistence on trying to fit a square peg into a round hole is hurting them. Ingram was once again held under 3.0 YPC and this time got stuffed twice at the goal-line -- including once on a key 4th-and-goal spot. Ingram is not a receiver, so opponents know what is coming when he's in the game. He's also shown no power or elusiveness through three NFL seasons. Pierre Thomas should be getting Ingram's carries. Owners in normal-sized leagues can move on. (Rotoworld.com) Mark Ingram - New Orleans Saints - 2013 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com thebdj likes this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-16-2013, 11:18 AM	#77
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? we have no options he is here for 2014 so start using correctly and stop forcing the issue SP.

09-16-2013, 11:31 AM	#78
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,026	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by hagan714 we have no options he is here for 2014 so start using correctly and stop forcing the issue SP. In that case, he is a change of pace back and gives PT a break. However.. and I emphasize a huge HOWEVER, if we continue to run Ingram, leaving Cadet and K. Robinson on the bench, if PT gets injured you now have Ingram on the field and no RBs with any NFL snaps other than Sproles to take snaps. It is time to see what Cadet and K. Robinson can do in the real world, no use keeping both on a roster to ride the bench. I do not look at Sproles as a pure RB as I do the other 4. ScottyRo, Danno and hagan714 like this.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau

09-16-2013, 11:36 AM	#79
ScottyRo 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Williamsburg, VA (ugh, the food here) Posts: 1,704	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Stats aside, sometimes you just have to go with what you see. When I watch PT run, I see a guy with a low center of gravity, great balance and vision, and strong, powerful legs. When I watch MI run, I see a guy who runs more upright than most successful backs, someone who is more easily knocked down, and someone who can't find the hole. Regardless of whether the opposing D has 8 or 11 in the box, these traits do not change. Think the D is keying on MI? That's his fault, too, for not being a threat in the passing game. I wanted him traded last year when Detroit was so desperate, but think any trade talk is too late now. Value is too low. papz and TheOak like this.

09-16-2013, 11:38 AM	#80
SmashMouth I donated, did you? Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Mandeville, LA Posts: 38,125 Blog Entries: 29	Re: Ingram- What do we do with him? Originally Posted by ChrisXVI Loomis made a horrible decision trading back into the first round to draft him. Of course hindsight is always 20/20 but it will go down as a huge draft blunder. Nobody's perfect and Loomis is no exception. IMHO, it's always detrimental for a team to give up multiple picks for a player. Rarely does it ever work out positively. Therein lies the main problem with Ingram, heightened expectations for which he has not lived up to. foreverfan likes this.

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