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-   -   Jimmy Graham Contract (https://blackandgold.com/saints/63780-jimmy-graham-contract.html)

exile 06-17-2014 01:58 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

jeanpierre 06-17-2014 03:43 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Grievance hearing for Jimmy Graham of New Orleans Saints begins Tuesday - ESPN

The Dude 06-17-2014 06:53 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
I'm at the point now where I feel like if we sign him then great, if not oh well now we have money to sign Jordan and won't have to cut our roster to the bone.
Jimmy should go for absolutely as much money as he can. I don't see how anyone could fault any player from trying to get the most they can.

jeanpierre 06-17-2014 08:55 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 597473)
I'm at the point now where I feel like if we sign him then great, if not oh well now we have money to sign Jordan and won't have to cut our roster to the bone.
Jimmy should go for absolutely as much money as he can. I don't see how anyone could fault any player from trying to get the most they can.
We've got another month of this; this part is just leverage and movements to gain further leverage...

Don't fault Graham or his representation for wanting to maximize his contract; just don't want this fabricated BS in the press he's a WR not a TE, or the wah-wah Twitter Posts...

If he or agent has to make a statement, then just say -

"We've told the Saints how much we want..."

"Jimmy is a unique and special player..."

"JG has played well above his contract..."

"Mr. Graham wants to retire a Saint..."

Then just stay on message...

All this other clever lawyer/agent bullshinski is just (temporarily) losing fan support as most fans have enough wah-wah in their lives with which to deal...

saintsfan1976 06-18-2014 06:58 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
6 years up to $11.2 mill.

jeanpierre 06-18-2014 09:32 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
After Further Review: Saints familiar with Graham grievance - FOX 8 WVUE New Orleans News, Weather, Sports

The Saints are quite familiar with Burbank and have not had much success in dealing with him. He ruled against the club and in favor of Drew Brees in his arbitration in 2012. In that case, Burbank ruled it was Brees' second franchise tag, not his first. Thus, 2013 would've been the last time he could have been franchised. Ultimately, both sides reached an agreement that made Brees the highest paid quarterback in the NFL.

Burbank also ruled in favor of the NFL in the original punishment in the bounty scandal that was challenged by the NFLPA. In that case, Burbank ruled that commissioner Roger Goodell had the authority to discipline players in the bounty scandal. Former commissioner Paul Tagliabue eventually overturned all player suspensions in that case.

halloween 65 06-18-2014 11:55 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597504)
After Further Review: Saints familiar with Graham grievance - FOX 8 WVUE New Orleans News, Weather, Sports

The Saints are quite familiar with Burbank and have not had much success in dealing with him. He ruled against the club and in favor of Drew Brees in his arbitration in 2012. In that case, Burbank ruled it was Brees' second franchise tag, not his first. Thus, 2013 would've been the last time he could have been franchised. Ultimately, both sides reached an agreement that made Brees the highest paid quarterback in the NFL.

Burbank also ruled in favor of the NFL in the original punishment in the bounty scandal that was challenged by the NFLPA. In that case, Burbank ruled that commissioner Roger Goodell had the authority to discipline players in the bounty scandal. Former commissioner Paul Tagliabue eventually overturned all player suspensions in that case.
Those 2 I could handle.

The Dude 06-18-2014 12:31 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597478)
We've got another month of this; this part is just leverage and movements to gain further leverage...

Don't fault Graham or his representation for wanting to maximize his contract; just don't want this fabricated BS in the press he's a WR not a TE, or the wah-wah Twitter Posts...

If he or agent has to make a statement, then just say -

"We've told the Saints how much we want..."

"Jimmy is a unique and special player..."

"JG has played well above his contract..."

"Mr. Graham wants to retire a Saint..."

Then just stay on message...

All this other clever lawyer/agent bullshinski is just (temporarily) losing fan support as most fans have enough wah-wah in their lives with which to deal...
It doesn't matter how much money someone already has five million dollars is five million dollars and is A Lot of money.

I don't think anyone on this board wouldn't whine their asses off to double their salary. And even more so for 5 mil. I would be a sniveling little biatch if I could get 5 mil out of it.

AsylumGuido 06-18-2014 01:24 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dude (Post 597522)
It doesn't matter how much money someone already has five million dollars is five million dollars and is A Lot of money.

I don't think anyone on this board wouldn't whine their asses off to double their salary. And even more so for 5 mil. I would be a sniveling little biatch if I could get 5 mil out of it.
This has nothing to do with $5 million for Graham. The $5M difference would only come into play if he was definitely playing this coming year under the franchise tag. That is not going to happen. Regardless of how the NFLPA's grievance plays out, Graham and the Saints will settle on a long term deal around $11 million per year on average.

The $5M difference does, in fact, come into play for future situations relying upon the precedent set by this hearing.

jeanpierre 06-18-2014 10:03 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Twitter bio used vs. Jimmy Graham of New Orleans Saints - ESPN

AliJee 06-19-2014 03:17 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
I've tried to do my own research on descriptions of positions in the NFL, what I have failed to find is something that says that a tight end strictly cannot line up wide... I'm wondering if there's a reference or a rulebook that would define a restriction like this?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

jeanpierre 06-19-2014 06:28 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliJee (Post 597632)
I've tried to do my own research on descriptions of positions in the NFL, what I have failed to find is something that says that a tight end strictly cannot line up wide... I'm wondering if there's a reference or a rulebook that would define a restriction like this?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Using Webster's Dictionary Online, Saints are screwed...

Using most football books, you're absolutely dead-on that there's nothing limiting a Tight End to lining up wide are tight on the tackle, other than he has to be on the line of scimmage...

End of the day, he's an All-Pro as a ****, his own twitter page he refers to himself as a tight end; and other than TD receptions, he's barely a top 20 receiver in catches or reception yards...

AsylumGuido 06-19-2014 06:41 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597711)
Using Webster's Dictionary Online, Saints are screwed...

Using most football books, you're absolutely dead-on that there's nothing limiting a Tight End to lining up wide are tight on the tackle, other than he has to be on the line of scimmage...

End of the day, he's an All-Pro as a ****, his own twitter page he refers to himself as a tight end; and other than TD receptions, he's barely a top 20 receiver in catches or reception yards...
Sorry, but I didn't catch your ****'s meaning. I have never seen, nor read, nor heard any reference to Jimmy Graham himself stating he was anything other than a tight end. You can ***** and moan at the NFLPA because of their grievance. You can ***** and moan at his agent for telling Graham to remain silent about everything, as was most probably directed by the NFLPA.

But, who you need to ***** and moan at is the media which has dumped all of this into this kid's lap.

Direct your anger toward the proper targets.

jeanpierre 06-19-2014 10:02 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597712)
Sorry, but I didn't catch your ****'s meaning. I have never seen, nor read, nor heard any reference to Jimmy Graham himself stating he was anything other than a tight end. You can ***** and moan at the NFLPA because of their grievance. You can ***** and moan at his agent for telling Graham to remain silent about everything, as was most probably directed by the NFLPA.

But, who you need to ***** and moan at is the media which has dumped all of this into this kid's lap.

Direct your anger toward the proper targets.
Hold on - Jimmy has NOT been silent and awkwardly twitted similar bullshinski his agent has been dealing...

And last I checked, my lawyer does what I tell him what to do...

Never faulted him for seeking a max deal - just called BS on his WR argument - all of this is done in his name, he's an adult, therefore it is his argument...

Still gonna love the Saints and what he does to make the Saints win...

But like Brees and agent has done, if you take too much Pi, then we want be able to sign, retain other Alpha Betas to keep winning...

(see what I did there?!?)

exile 06-19-2014 10:13 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Trade him for Adrian Peterson. Seriously. :)

jeanpierre 06-19-2014 10:41 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by exile (Post 597723)
Trade him for Adrian Peterson. Seriously. :)
Can you imagine Petersahn in this offense?!? OMG...

lee909 06-20-2014 03:46 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597722)
Hold on - Jimmy has NOT been silent and awkwardly twitted similar bullshinski his agent has been dealing...

And last I checked, my lawyer does what I tell him what to do...

Never faulted him for seeking a max deal - just called BS on his WR argument - all of this is done in his name, he's an adult, therefore it is his argument...

Still gonna love the Saints and what he does to make the Saints win...

But like Brees and agent has done, if you take too much Pi, then we want be able to sign, retain other Alpha Betas to keep winning...

(see what I did there?!?)
spot on
Agents work for players, the union can only act as long as the player wishes.
Graham may be keeping quiet in the media but he knows whats going on as is happy for the NFLPA and Sexton to push this. He could just say get a deal done with the Saints or I sit/play out the tag and move as a FA next year. But he is happy for this to happen in the hope that he wins and has additional leverage on the long term deal.

jeanpierre 06-20-2014 06:56 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
"I know he's stressed," Saints backup tight end Benjamin Watson said Thursday after the Saints' final voluntary practice before training camp next month. "He's going through a lot right now." (USA Today)

AsylumGuido 06-20-2014 09:04 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597722)
Hold on - Jimmy has NOT been silent and awkwardly twitted similar bullshinski his agent has been dealing...

And last I checked, my lawyer does what I tell him what to do...

Never faulted him for seeking a max deal - just called BS on his WR argument - all of this is done in his name, he's an adult, therefore it is his argument...

Still gonna love the Saints and what he does to make the Saints win...

But like Brees and agent has done, if you take too much Pi, then we want be able to sign, retain other Alpha Betas to keep winning...

(see what I did there?!?)
Wrong. I have followed Graham on Twitter since he joined the team. He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation. Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed." That is it.

Even his agent has not said anything about the WR angle as far as I can gather. That has been 100% the NFLPA. Graham has NEVER claimed he was a WR in any manner. The whole argument has been put forth by the NFLPA.

AsylumGuido 06-20-2014 09:13 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
No kidding. Graham was clearly pressured into this and he has to be feeling miserable. If you really knew anything about this man you all would know he is perhaps the most genuine person, besides Brees, on the entire roster. He wants this to be over as badly as any of us.

This hearing was inevitable. Its implications are far bigger than Jimmy Graham and his negotiations with the Saints. It has taken on a life of its own. This is all about the NFLPA, the NFL, and the CBA.

Unlike what some of you may think, Graham is clearly not "happy" with any of this.

AsylumGuido 06-20-2014 09:27 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee909 (Post 597739)
spot on
Agents work for players, the union can only act as long as the player wishes.
Graham may be keeping quiet in the media but he knows whats going on as is happy for the NFLPA and Sexton to push this. He could just say get a deal done with the Saints or I sit/play out the tag and move as a FA next year. But he is happy for this to happen in the hope that he wins and has additional leverage on the long term deal.
Yes, agents work for the players, but they also tell the players before they agree to represent them that the player has to trust everything they are doing when it comes to negotiations. And the players listen. Especially the young ones hoping to get their first, and most likely only, big contract ever.

As for the union, they have far more influence on the players than you can imagine. Its primary concern is not of the individual player, but of the player population as a whole. It would be easy to convince the player that this is for the good of all players and they would not be lying. As the great philosopher Spock once said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

It is Pollyanna thinking to believe that this 27 year-old kid has any control over this situation with everything that is on the line. The NFL and the NFLPA are two of America's most powerful entities and are not capable of being told what they can and cannot do.

jeanpierre 06-20-2014 07:47 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597753)
Wrong. I have followed Graham on Twitter since he joined the team. He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation. Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed." That is it.

Even his agent has not said anything about the WR angle as far as I can gather. That has been 100% the NFLPA. Graham has NEVER claimed he was a WR in any manner. The whole argument has been put forth by the NFLPA.
Guido, like your insightfullness, really do...

but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""...

So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career...

Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf...

Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this...

Utah_Saint 06-20-2014 08:02 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Where Jimmy Graham ranks among receivers - ESPN

AsylumGuido 06-20-2014 11:21 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597829)
Guido, like your insightfullness, really do...

but you can't say "He has NEVER tweeted anything about his tag designation." (then state on two occasions he did) "Immediately after he was tagged he posted one jokingly saying, "Tag! I'm it." and then another saying he was "shocked and disappointed.""...

So either he NEVER twitted or he did; point of fact he did and he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career...

Second, will reiterate that he's an adult, and plays football with millions of people watching - so the real Pollyanna thinking that he's some innocent kid caught up in the power struggle of organized labor and old-guard management is bullshinski; he's a big boy and has to wear the big boy pants in negotiations in his behalf...

Not hating on Graham, just not drinking the cool-aid absolving him of his role in this...
Read closely jeanpierre. Those two tweets that I posted referred to the act of the tag alone. The NFL did not declare his designation as a TE until later. He, as I correctly stated, has NEVER tweeted nor mentioned a word about his tag designation.

Ever.

And you state that " he's made other public comments that I felt was below the image he's projected thus far in his career..."

I challenge you here and now to find and post one. You type as they are so well known. Show them then.

I'm sorry, but you are either speaking out of misguided ignorance (not saying you are dumb or anything, just that you don't know the truth) or are making it up (which I really doubt).

halloween 65 06-20-2014 11:39 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utah_Saint (Post 597830)
The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did.

AsylumGuido 06-20-2014 11:48 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by halloween 65 (Post 597852)
The only problem I would have with that ranking is those WR go against the #1 and sometimes #2 CB, I know what happens to Graham when he faces #1 and even #2 CB, I don't think his #'s would be even close if he did.
That's because he isn't a WR and has never claimed to be. The article is all supposition. That is also why the NFLPA has very little chance of winning their case, much to the chagrin of Julius Thomas and Vernon Wells who are hanging on the outcome with bated breath.

jeanpierre 06-23-2014 06:22 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Guido...

Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...

The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same...

Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it...

And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer...

Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk

AsylumGuido 06-23-2014 12:00 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 597963)
Guido...

Good discussion, read, reread post(s), and I'll love Graham once he's back in the fold; but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...

The point that some are trying to make is that agents and players associations do what they do on BEHALF of the players, young or not; at anytime, they can hire, fire and replace their lawyers; so Graham or Agent are married one in the same...

Don't begrudge players/agents for seeking a max contract; it's just some of the whacked arguments they make are silly and some fans are calling BS on it...

And even though the Saints SEEM to have the better arguments including Graham's own Twitter page, it'll probably make no difference as the arbitrator, Stephen Burbank, has a history of liberal rulings and exceeding his mandate - what a surprise from a lawyer...

Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk
Quote:
but you can't say he nor his agent on his behalf have never said anything and then cite twice that they did...
If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't. That is the point I was trying to make. Some were saying that Graham had been talking about being designated as a WR. That is totally wrong. The two tweets I mentioned were the only times he has ever even anything about the off-season concerning personnel moves. Here are the exact tweets copied from his own timeline:

Quote:
Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Feb 28

Confirming it's officially Franchisefriday... TAG ... I guess I'm it...
and this one which was in response to Sproles being traded and Moore getting released. You can also interpret it as referring to his being tagged.

Quote:
Jimmy Graham @TheJimmyGraham · Mar 7

Wow unbelievable. Shocked and disappointed on everything that's gone on this offseason.
Those are the only two times Graham or his agent ever said anything about the off-season moves whatsoever and neither time was referring to his being designated by the NFL as a TE.

So, what kind of "whacked arguments" are you claiming that Graham or Sexton have made? They haven't made any at all. The NFLPA is the only source of anything to do with that argument and they are making it on behalf of ALL TE's that are key receivers, not just Graham.

jeanpierre 06-23-2014 12:07 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsylumGuido (Post 597982)
If you go back and reread one more time you will see that I said Graham, and his agent, have said nothing about Graham's tag designation as a TE versus a WR. And they haven't.
Okay Brother, I understand...

(repost)
Now, the NFL league office may have started their proverbial schiott again in meddling with our affairs...

NFL may be pushing for a Graham settlement | ProFootballTalk

Jack Vegas 06-23-2014 12:15 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
I do find it incredibly annoying that once again the league/owners is using the Saints to set some kind of a precedent ruling.

Just like the whole bounty farce. 90% of this whole thing has nothing to do with the Saints/Graham. It is the league trying to keep player salaries down and the union trying to exploit a loophole. And Graham's agent trying to make a bigger power/fame grab.

And we're once again the team that gets stuck in the middle. I kind of wish we would just trade Graham to the highest bidder and move on. Watson and Hill could probably replace 80% of Graham's offensive production right now.

Utah_Saint 06-23-2014 12:18 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Vegas (Post 597986)
I do find it incredibly annoying that once again the league/owners is using the Saints to set some kind of a precedent ruling.

Just like the whole bounty farce. 90% of this whole thing has nothing to do with the Saints/Graham. It is the league trying to keep player salaries down and the union trying to exploit a loophole.

And we're once again the team that gets stuck in the middle.
The Ravens settled just before Terrell Suggs redefined the DE/LB positions. I read several stories that suggested the league forced the Ravens to settle so it didn't open a can of worms for every team.

jeanpierre 06-25-2014 12:09 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Saints TE Jimmy Graham ruling drawing watchful eyes of NFL tight ends | Updated Links | NOLA.com

hagan714 06-25-2014 04:42 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
as i said in a previous thread. he aint all that as a TE. he aint all that as a WR. as mutant he is dangerous living in the middle of those two worlds.

we may get a new position designation out of all this to fit the new pass happy, high scoring and defenseless NFL.

jeanpierre 06-25-2014 02:13 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 598092)
as i said in a previous thread. he aint all that as a TE. he aint all that as a WR. as mutant he is dangerous living in the middle of those two worlds.

we may get a new position designation out of all this to fit the new pass happy, high scoring and defenseless NFL.
Tell us how you really feel...

Seer1 06-25-2014 06:30 PM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagan714 (Post 598092)
we may get a new position designation out of all this to fit the new pass happy, high scoring and defenseless NFL.
Loose End?

jeanpierre 06-26-2014 01:16 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Mr. Horse (Shannon Sharpe): Jimmy Graham should be 'highest-paid' TE - NFL.com

...And WTF is a rookie who hasn't caught a pass chiming in on this debate...

AliJee 06-26-2014 01:17 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Yeah Ebron needs to just stay quiet

jeanpierre 06-26-2014 01:22 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
New Orleans Advocate: No decision on Jimmy Graham

spkb25 06-26-2014 07:19 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanpierre (Post 598173)
Sounds like they're giving them time to work it out themselves...maybe

jeanpierre 06-26-2014 09:45 AM
Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkb25 (Post 598185)
Sounds like they're giving them time to work it out themselves...maybe
ScottF was saying the same thing...Guido was sharing that opinion...


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