Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I want a fast, as in really fast, WR for trade Xmas - one with great hands.

Having said that, I'd take the Panthers Ginn in an heart beat...500 yards at Carolina is a waste of talent.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

You look at the WR and compare that to 8-9ml for Graham and he is a bargain.
No way would I be paying more for either of the Jacksons, or similar amounts for Brown, Garcon than I would for Graham.

Calvin Johnson may be immense but for that money you can be looking at Graham, Colston and Stills.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I think that's what Stills is supposed to be.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Seeing NE get to the AFC Championship without Gronk or Aaron Hernandez makes me think we would be fine letting him go.
He's a basketball player... soft... talented, but soft.
This is pro football, rosters turn over all the time.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Good point. New england lost 2 pro-bowl caliber tightends and still continued win. The only difference though is that the best defenses right now are in the NFC (Us, Seattle, San Fran and Carolina). Brady wouldn't have to worry about that in the postseason until the super bowl. We on the other hand have to go through that just to get to the super bowl.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I'd be fine with another Colston...

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Stills has the better hands and nose for the ball but straight speed it's not very close. Ginn is still a burner. I just don't trust his hands.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

4.28 vs. 4.34 isn't too shabby.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

And for that reason alone I don't give him much flack for not getting separation. It doesn't however excuse gator-arms or the high drop rate, in 2012 he lead the league in drops. Then there is the subjective opinion that he waits for the ball to come to him instead of going get it.

He is actually the receiver Drew throws the most INTs when being targeted.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Franchise him. Then you can entertain any offers that you get. He is a dynamite player. But we can't afford for another player to take us to the bank.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Not for 18ml a year

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I hope we keep Jimmy for long term. Not because I find him amazing as a player, but because I got his jersey for my birthday.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

It will get done.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

lets be honest if we do sign him he will probably become the highest paid TE in football

SO

TAG him and save money baby

then listen to offers on sign and trades to an AFC team up north some where

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

He is injured. He was playing balls out before the injury. That type of injury not only makes it painful to run and jump but makes it damn near impossible to plant your feet and get any kind of push whatsoever. That is why he was getting shut out. He has only played the game of football for 4 years and is still learning and has a huge ceiling.
I agree he has a lot to learn as a tight end. Our running game got going when Hill and Watson were in as tight ends.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

That theory didn't work in 2011, and it hasn't worked for Manning yet.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Think brother..... It hurts Jimmy to do all you listed but not dunk over the cross bar?

Sorry, not buying it. If he were playing with a hurt foot there would be no dunking.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

In total agreement, this trade jimmy **** is absurd..... The patriots can't even keep gronk, on the field.... But they won't even hear offers. Why because they know he's a game changer..... The reason you have blocking TEs is to block....JIMMY GRAHAM WILL NEVER BE AN EXCELLENT BLOCKER....NEITHER WAS TONY GONZALEZ .... just ask junior galette if you don't believe me.... BTW TONY G IS NOT GOING INTO THE HALL AS THE BEST BLOCKING TE IN HISTORY........ He's been here four years, put up numbers we have never had at the position, two of those four season he was injured.... We've been reaping the benefits...."Pay the man" 7 years 60 million actually would help our cap right now not the other way around....

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I do agree with this, planting and pushing off with a foot that is supposedly that bad wouldn't happen. I look at Graham a lot different these days. Only good thing that come from this was our run game started. I watched Shockey score when he should have not even been playing in a game, he hobbled his broke butt to the endzone got seperation and caught the ball. Graham may have the#'s but he couldn't carry Shockeys jock strap.He is a product of the system and if we run the ball we can do better than Graham. We need another Shockey type of TE period.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I agree. He had 1,200 plus yards and led the league in TDs among all receivers. If the only problem is that he can't block, then call him a wide receiver. He can block better than most wide outs.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

He will probably get the same contract as Gronk.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Lol at your shockey take, seriously..... Did you see the pic of decrepit old shockey next to jimmy graham....the last two seasons of shockey in New Orleans was a joke, and I bet if you ask a Carolina fan the season he played for them where he only got up and played cause he was playing against us was a joke. The reason Graham's here is because shockey best days were behind him..... And let's be honest the only reason you or any other saints fan is looking at him differently is because now your gonna have to pay for the numbers he puts up in a season.....

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Jimmy's not going anywhere and hopefully he doesn't rape our cap but definitely the #1 te in the league blocking or not. Plus imagine our new found run game and better wrs with jimmy. Pick ur poison we are better with him not without.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Like I said, same contract as Gronk. He hasn't beaten any of Gronk's stats so he doesn't deserve more but I can see the same 6 years $54 million

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

No!! I only look at the field play. I honestly don't think any player is worth as much as they get paid, never have. With that out of the way if I was basing it on production I would look at the overall body of work, blocking, yrd's after catch, TD's all of the stat things, but stats don't tell everything and when he has been punked out for several games you have to look at those stats also if your a stat person and ask yourself if he is really all that good or a product of the system. I say product of the system and not playing well down the stretch in the playoffs where you usually see better D's thats not good it only makes his case worse, not better. As for Shockey in his prime vs. Graham in his, and he is, I'll take Shockey each and every day, that man lived to play football.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

What is amazing about this is you didn't get shockey in his prime, you got a watered down version.... And although in New York he was a better blocker than Gonzalez.... He will never be considered in the same breath as Gonzalez..... If you stick with him or even if you decide to let him go jimmy graham will eventually be mentioned in the same breath as Gonzalez... That's why for me jimmy graham vs shockey prime or not isn't fair to shockey.... Jimmy graham was more productive, with a bum wrist than a career shockey season...... And that's blocking included.....

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

He had 6 touchdowns in the last 6 games of the season. I think thats pretty good down the stretch. And averaged 60 yards per game, not bad for a guy with planter fasciitis.

As far as being "punked out", he only had one game without a catch. In that game, the opposition put their best corner on him every play and gave safety help on most. I don't think the problem for the Saints in that game was Jimmy Graham. The problem was no one else stepped up to make them pay for it.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Absolutely. And if that's the case, Payton better work on that because as of the Patriots game, Jimmy Graham became everyone's focus. I think the belief is Shut down Graham and you can shut down the Saints.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Omg.... Are we one brain today or what....... I was gonna say it but you beat me too it. Not only that but Talib the guy who did the "punkin" didn't even make it to the end of the game. It's now up to us to go and find another options to help our tight end..... I'll just take a few of the better TEs for example...... Witten (Dez Braynt) or how bout Gonzolez ( Julio jones, roddy white )... You shouldn't be able to cover him and stop every Saint on the field...... Then when the seasons over all the blame is pointed in his direction....Lol

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Look at the Cowboys record and look at Atlanta's record, go ahead pay the man.

Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Let it go..... Some people look at angles that benefit their argument.

Totals are functions of utilization and we all know Jimmy Graham wasn't utilized as a traditional TE.

Jimmy had 86 receptions / 1,215 yards and / 16 TDs / 1st down % 70.9

86 receptions puts his utilization in the WR range Gordon/Boldin/Decker.

Josh Gordon 1,646 yards
Erick Decker 1,288 yards
Anquan Bolden 1,179 yards

Looks like he is in good company doesn't it? None of those are in the top 10 WRs in yards/catch or catches.

In a nut she'll he isn't as productive as the top WRs, and can't block as well as the top TEs. Contrary to popular belief a TE is supposed to be able to block and when he can't it's a liability.

Hell PT had 77 receptions. We don't use players in a traditional manor.

Jimmy Graham / TE NFL Drop leader in 2012.... If you want to call him a TE.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...te-tight-ends/

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

This year his drop rate improved significantly, he was in the top half (barely) of TEs and the top third of WRs.

Last year he was dealing with a wrist injury that many sports writers said contributed to his poor drop percentage, 15.00.

In his four years in the league his drop rate has been 8.82 , 5.77, 15.00 and 6.52 this year.

And if we use PFF stats, Graham may not have been the best blocking TE but he ended the season with a positive grade and in the top half of TEs in both run and pass blocking. So according to them, he wasn't a liability.

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Sorry, I dont listen to many Sports Writers, I listen to so few that there isn't a number less than 2 digits past the decimal to define it.

You are proving my point for me.. While you are arguing that he is not bad and we shouldn't get rid of him I have never said that we should. I said he hasn't been consistent enough for Gronk money and he hasn't.

I do not know what grades you are looking at on PFF but his run blocking -6.1 worst on all offense and pass blocking is -0.2 19th out of 26 offensive players.

THink about this combination for me... Forget what we have discussed and that this is Jimmy Graham ... If a player doesnt catch nearly 40% of the passes thrown at him and leads the league in INTs when thrown to him what would you think?

Jimmy's Catch % this season in comparison. (balls caught that were thrown to them)
Gonzalez 72.2%
Olsen 71.6%
Tamme 83.3%
Gates 71.3%
Watson 67.9%
Jimmy Graham 63.2%

6 INTs when throwing to Jimmy Graham... More than anyone in the league... Drew Brees threw 12 INTs this season. 1/2 of Drews INTs were while throwing to Graham.

Is it coincidence that Drew Brees throws 1/2 of his INTs when throwing to Graham or possibility a receiver has t-rex syndrome and doesn't go get the ball?

I do not want to hear about injures as long as he is dunking balls... That defies logic.:bng:

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Damn!!

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

Re: Jimmy Graham Contract
 

I wasn't arguing with you. I was taking your point and expounding upon it.

You're right about the blocking grade. I must've been looking at the wrong row. Good catch. My mistake.

It's easy to make mistakes when looking at all these numbers in all these columns.

I do like to look at catch percentage. I think it's one of the most important stats for a receiver. I haven't really looked at interceptions thrown at before but it is interesting.

A mistake you made was saying that there were more interceptions from throws to Jimmy Graham than anyone in the league. Actually he's in a 4 way tie at for 14th in the league at 6. Not coincidently, Graham had the 14th most balls thrown his way. AJ. Green had the lead with 12, twice as many as Graham. 6 actually isn't extremely high for the number of times he was thrown at.

So thinking about it, If we look at interceptions thrown at as a percentage, things change a little. You were only using TEs as for examples and I don't feel like crunching %s for all the receivers...Jimmy was thrown at 136 times leading to 6 interceptions or 4.41% of the attempts. By comparison,
Jordan Cameron 4.59%
Rob Gronkowski 6.25%
Owen Daniels 10.26%

The vast majority of TE's are in the 3-4% range. As a comparison strictly with Drew Brees, Ben Watson's interception thrown at % is 3.57%, less than one percent difference from Graham.

Some notable names that have more interceptions thrown to Graham are;
A.J. Green - 12
Vincent Jackson - 10
Calvin Johnson - 10
Andre Johnson - 8
Larry Fitzgerald - 7
Hakeem Nicks - 7

So, no, I don't think it's just a coincidence that Brees throws more interceptions to Graham than anyone else on the team. Looking at the names on the list, it may be that it's more about the ball placement. Just like the guys listed above, I think Brees and the other QBs try to throw high to these big receivers to put the ball above the defenders head and as such are subject to interceptions from safetys covering over the top.

As far as catch percentage goes, 63% isn't bad. Some notable names at that level or below are;

Larry Fitzgerald - 63%
Alshon Jeffery - 63%
Brandon Marshall - 63%
Andre Johnson - 62%
Dez Bryant - 60%
Josh Gordon - 58%
Calvin Johnson - 57%
AJ Green - 57%
Hakeem Nicks - 57%

Those are some of the best receivers in the league. Pretty good company.

When we talk about his injury, I'm not a doctor so I'm not even going to pretend I know what you can or can't do when you have planters fasciitis, But I did read that it's all about pain management and maybe in his particular case, it hurts more to run for distance than one jump, but I will say if the doctors diagnose it, the media covers it, and there's a notable drop off in performance following it, I have to believe it and I think most other people would too.

So to sum up this giant wall of text, after really thinking about the catch percentage and interception %, I think we can see that Graham is as good as, or better than some of the biggest name receivers in the league.

And on top of all that he leads them all in Touchdown receptions.

But you are right, he sucks at blocking.