another i cant hepp it thread

Danno · 02-17-2005, 05:50 PM

Danno.

Now that I\'ve managed to decode your post, I think I agree somewhat. Is that what you really think?

Just having a little fun with the new A$$-filter.

JKool · 02-17-2005, 05:52 PM

Whodi,

I would be cool with your view on this IF I WAS A BROOKS SUPPORTER, but I am NOT. I don\'t see why you wouldn\'t take my word for it? He gets enough crap around here that I see no reason to take that side of the issue.

Recall, the good discussion that you and BMG and I had? In that discussion, I was plainly willing to grant all sorts of problem with Brooks (and I even helped BMG build a better argument). This is because there ARE GOOD REASONS TO GET RID OF BROOKS. However, there are a lot of arguments out there that I just can\'t agree with EVEN IF I THINK BROOKS IS A PROBLEM. Those arguments should not be believed.

The reason I am on the fence is because I don\'t think there are good arguments that decide the issue. There are good ones and bad ones on both sides.

You don\'t need an angle with me. You merely need to state your views and consider what is being said. I\'d like to think that that is what most of us do, most of the time.

If all you mean by Brooks supporter is this \"sometimes I offer arguments against those who bash him\", I guess I am. If you mean this \"I want Brooks to stay no matter what and I think he is a great QB\", then you are just wrong.

saintswhodi · 02-17-2005, 05:54 PM

Then I will take your word for it, and say I was wrong.

JKool · 02-17-2005, 05:56 PM

Thanks buddy.

Sorry for getting upity.

saintfan · 02-17-2005, 05:56 PM

So then our offense is better than both the Rams and the Falcons? Interesting. I guess I can see now why you\'re so interested in replacing Brooks and why you\'d probably jump at the chance to trade our QB for theirs straight up.

C\'mon man. I can admit that Brooks makes some stupid mistakes, Why in the world is it so hard for you to admit that the problem with the Saints is the defense? I\'m not saying the offense couldn\'t improve, but isn\'t it pretty plain to see we need help on the o-line exterior? Isn\'t it pretty clear we need to be able to STOP somebody? I haven\'t looked up the number, but I wonder how many games we lost when we help the opposition under 20?

saintswhodi · 02-17-2005, 06:04 PM

I never disagreed on those points saintfan, what I did disagree on is that a QB who leads the league in red zone turnovers hurts this team, as I have shown you. I disagreed that a QB last year who led the league in lost fumbles hurts this team. I remember clearly he alone cost us at least one game(Tampa). I disagreed that a QB who never completed 60% of his passes in any season hurts this team. Yeah, out tackles are bad, our defense is bad, but to me, AB is just as big a problem, as I have shown you two teams in similar boats as us scoring wise offensively and defensively whose QBs DID NOT lead the league in red zone turnovers. I could have done 2003 also as there were MORE playoff teams whose defenses gave up 20 points per game, and gave up more points per game than ur defense, yet still made the playoffs. But their QBs didn\'t lead the league in lost fumbles either. I guess we will just have to disagree. Cool?

saintfan · 02-17-2005, 07:33 PM

Absolutely, we\'re cool. No ill will here. I understand why folks are on Brooks case, I just think fixing the defense should be our #1 priority. I do agree tho that we should get somebody in here to push Brooks. We\'re on common ground there for sure.

mutineer10 · 02-17-2005, 08:27 PM

I disagreed that a QB who never completed 60% of his p ***** in any season hurts this team.

Oh man, this new editor is hilarious. A football site ... and you can\'t use the word \"passes.\"

Priceless...

Saint_LB · 02-17-2005, 09:46 PM

Try to look at it this way. It is true that other areas of the team need to be fixed besides just the QB. I can\'t speak for everyone, but here is why I am frustrated, and it should be very easy to see. Yes, the defense needs to improve. Yes, the O-lines needs help. Yes, the secondary needs help. I don\'t think there is one area of the team that could not stand improving. The fact of the matter is that all of these areas, over the last four years, have been addressed. except one. So, the question a lot of us have is when will we get our turn. There are some of us who would like to see that position addressed also, but, so far, we have been put on hold. So, all you guys who are hollering for defense, linemen, etc., well, you\'ve gotten to see some changes made. They may not have all worked, but at least you have had a chance to see some changes in areas you thought needed attention. Some of us think that the QB position should merit some attention. What we\'ve gotten, however, is a QB who needs to be coddled to remain satisfied, and a coaching staff that has pretty much been willing to do that. So our frustration level is peaking, because now we are looking at going into our fifth year without having our desires attended to. Surely you can see how that would be frustrating for those who have wanted to see what someone else could do at that position. On top of that, we have seen people who we thought might have been able to provide us with relief in that area go off to other teams and have success there. That even adds to our frustration. Can\'t you see that?

saintswhodi · 02-17-2005, 09:59 PM

saintsfan, we definitely agree there. Much respect.

LB, Could hardly have said it better myself, and haven\'t I guess for 3 pages.

02-17-2005, 05:50 PM	#61
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,723	another i cant hepp it thread Danno. Now that I\'ve managed to decode your post, I think I agree somewhat. Is that what you really think? Just having a little fun with the new A$$-filter.

02-17-2005, 05:52 PM	#62
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	another i cant hepp it thread Whodi, I would be cool with your view on this IF I WAS A BROOKS SUPPORTER, but I am NOT. I don\'t see why you wouldn\'t take my word for it? He gets enough crap around here that I see no reason to take that side of the issue. Recall, the good discussion that you and BMG and I had? In that discussion, I was plainly willing to grant all sorts of problem with Brooks (and I even helped BMG build a better argument). This is because there ARE GOOD REASONS TO GET RID OF BROOKS. However, there are a lot of arguments out there that I just can\'t agree with EVEN IF I THINK BROOKS IS A PROBLEM. Those arguments should not be believed. The reason I am on the fence is because I don\'t think there are good arguments that decide the issue. There are good ones and bad ones on both sides. You don\'t need an angle with me. You merely need to state your views and consider what is being said. I\'d like to think that that is what most of us do, most of the time. If all you mean by Brooks supporter is this \"sometimes I offer arguments against those who bash him\", I guess I am. If you mean this \"I want Brooks to stay no matter what and I think he is a great QB\", then you are just wrong.
	"... I was beating them with my eyes the whole game..." - Aaron Brooks

02-17-2005, 05:54 PM	#63
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	another i cant hepp it thread Then I will take your word for it, and say I was wrong.

02-17-2005, 05:56 PM	#64
JKool 1000 Posts + Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,423	another i cant hepp it thread Thanks buddy. Sorry for getting upity.

02-17-2005, 05:56 PM	#65
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	another i cant hepp it thread So then our offense is better than both the Rams and the Falcons? Interesting. I guess I can see now why you\'re so interested in replacing Brooks and why you\'d probably jump at the chance to trade our QB for theirs straight up. C\'mon man. I can admit that Brooks makes some stupid mistakes, Why in the world is it so hard for you to admit that the problem with the Saints is the defense? I\'m not saying the offense couldn\'t improve, but isn\'t it pretty plain to see we need help on the o-line exterior? Isn\'t it pretty clear we need to be able to STOP somebody? I haven\'t looked up the number, but I wonder how many games we lost when we help the opposition under 20?
	C'mon Man...

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02-17-2005, 06:04 PM	#66
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	another i cant hepp it thread I never disagreed on those points saintfan, what I did disagree on is that a QB who leads the league in red zone turnovers hurts this team, as I have shown you. I disagreed that a QB last year who led the league in lost fumbles hurts this team. I remember clearly he alone cost us at least one game(Tampa). I disagreed that a QB who never completed 60% of his passes in any season hurts this team. Yeah, out tackles are bad, our defense is bad, but to me, AB is just as big a problem, as I have shown you two teams in similar boats as us scoring wise offensively and defensively whose QBs DID NOT lead the league in red zone turnovers. I could have done 2003 also as there were MORE playoff teams whose defenses gave up 20 points per game, and gave up more points per game than ur defense, yet still made the playoffs. But their QBs didn\'t lead the league in lost fumbles either. I guess we will just have to disagree. Cool?

02-17-2005, 07:33 PM	#67
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	another i cant hepp it thread Absolutely, we\'re cool. No ill will here. I understand why folks are on Brooks case, I just think fixing the defense should be our #1 priority. I do agree tho that we should get somebody in here to push Brooks. We\'re on common ground there for sure.

02-17-2005, 08:27 PM	#68
mutineer10 Site Donor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 1,739	another i cant hepp it thread I disagreed that a QB who never completed 60% of his p ***** in any season hurts this team. Oh man, this new editor is hilarious. A football site ... and you can\'t use the word \"passes.\" Priceless...

02-17-2005, 09:46 PM	#69
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	another i cant hepp it thread Try to look at it this way. It is true that other areas of the team need to be fixed besides just the QB. I can\'t speak for everyone, but here is why I am frustrated, and it should be very easy to see. Yes, the defense needs to improve. Yes, the O-lines needs help. Yes, the secondary needs help. I don\'t think there is one area of the team that could not stand improving. The fact of the matter is that all of these areas, over the last four years, have been addressed. except one. So, the question a lot of us have is when will we get our turn. There are some of us who would like to see that position addressed also, but, so far, we have been put on hold. So, all you guys who are hollering for defense, linemen, etc., well, you\'ve gotten to see some changes made. They may not have all worked, but at least you have had a chance to see some changes in areas you thought needed attention. Some of us think that the QB position should merit some attention. What we\'ve gotten, however, is a QB who needs to be coddled to remain satisfied, and a coaching staff that has pretty much been willing to do that. So our frustration level is peaking, because now we are looking at going into our fifth year without having our desires attended to. Surely you can see how that would be frustrating for those who have wanted to see what someone else could do at that position. On top of that, we have seen people who we thought might have been able to provide us with relief in that area go off to other teams and have success there. That even adds to our frustration. Can\'t you see that?
Saint_LB Deuce Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,894	Whether you think you can or think you can't...you're right!

02-17-2005, 09:59 PM	#70
saintswhodi 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 6,941	another i cant hepp it thread saintsfan, we definitely agree there. Much respect. LB, Could hardly have said it better myself, and haven\'t I guess for 3 pages.