Saints 2016 Coaching Staff

jeanpierre · 02-21-2016, 12:55 PM

My biggest concern for the 2016 team is still Dennis Allen...

We've got the personnel for a better fit to 3-4 front and that he'll be a stubborn and force the 4-3...

Square Pegs/Round Holes...

Danno · 02-21-2016, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

My biggest concern for the 2016 team is still Dennis Allen...

We've got the personnel for a better fit to 3-4 front and that he'll be a stubborn and force the 4-3...

Square Pegs/Round Holes...

How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both.

Jordan (can play either)
Jenkins (4-3 DT)
Williams (4-3 DT)
Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4)
Anthony (both)
Davison (4-3 DT)
Richardson (4-3 DE)
Kikaha (both)

I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat .

And I'm sure he can scheme both.

halloween 65 · 02-21-2016, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both.

Jordan (can play either)
Jenkins (4-3 DT)
Williams (4-3 DT)
Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4)
Anthony (both)
Davison (4-3 DT)
Richardson (4-3 DE)
Kikaha (both)

I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat .

And I'm sure he can scheme both.

I disagree
Jordan at jack stinks in a 3-4
A slim version of Jenkins a 4-3 but a beefed up version 3-4 NT
Williams 4-3
Ellerbe can play both but on the ILB spot in a 3-4 much much better
Anthony- not so sure about his cover skills in a 4-3 but a pro-bowler in a 3-4
Davidson lightning fast NT in a 3-4 or DE in a 3-4
Richardson 4-3 all day long
Kiki would be great in a 3-4

Allens DC playbook is limited at best.

jeanpierre · 02-21-2016, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both.

Jordan (can play either)
Jenkins (4-3 DT)
Williams (4-3 DT)
Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4)
Anthony (both)
Davison (4-3 DT)
Richardson (4-3 DE)
Kikaha (both)

I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat .

And I'm sure he can scheme both.

I'll go right to the crux of it...Kikaha...

Danno, Hau'oli is something special, an elite talent, when rushing the passer from the edge...

As a rookie, he came out looking pretty good - and that was under Ryan...

Granted he had an injury early, but Allen even admitted Kikaha's responsibilities would move more for coverage in his scheme than Ryan's...

This has has made him look average...

What makes Payton great is that he built an offense with what he had...

Allen is more structured, mimicking Gregg Williams - whom I've never really been impressed; in fact, felt it was more Darren Sharper bailing out the SuperBowl Run with his Pick 6's...

Then there's Jenkins, who was clearly drafted as a 3-4 NT, a big reason why we consolidated two draft picks to move up and secure him...

Jenkins has been nothing special as a 4-3 DT; having Jenkins slim down what was his strength, was another terrible Allen idea...

Totally agree Jordan can play DE in both fronts; pair him with FA Malick Jackson with Jenkins, bulked back up, in the middle - Tyeler Davison, Lawrence Virgil and one more for depth, then you'd really have something special...

Then there's Ellerbe and Anthony...both would be better in a 3-4, allowing them to share middle coverage responsibilities, even allowing them to freelance and make more plays...

I've posted plenty of reading mat'l about Allen's background, tendencies; and I just get the ill felling he's more of a Coach Mora, make 'em fit a system rather than a Coach who can maximize a player's talents...

We're going to find out this FA period, Draft, OffSeason and Regular Season...

K Major · 02-21-2016, 09:03 PM

Dennis Allen has been predominately a 4-3 coach since day one. In today's NFL you are in your "base package" less than 45% of the down. Match ups, distance etc have over ridden scheme to some degree.

I think this season is the time we stop thinking on the idea of filling spaces on traditional alignments and think about what players we will need to blitz, cover running backs and tight ends, and to spy on the Cam Newton's of the world.

jeanpierre · 02-22-2016, 03:58 AM

Well, whether it's a 3-4, or a 4-3 under or a 5-2...

The mandate for Dennis Allen is simple...

Find a way to plug up the middle lanes with Cam Jordan, John Jenkins and a Malick Jackson-type...

Bring pressure from both edges with Hau'oli Kikaha on one side and Davis Tull/Kasim Edebali from the other...

And split the middle of the field between Stephone Anthony and Dannell Ellerbe...

You'd be able to run that package for nearly all three downs...

jeanpierre · 03-06-2016, 04:05 AM

Have been perusing the free agency list for defensive upgrades for the defensive line, safety...

Found these interesting nuggets...

Recently signed, extended FS Malcolm Jenkins, Eagles, paired with Walter Thurmond are constantly referred to as the best safety pair in the league...

DE/DT Akiem Hicks is considered a top 10 free agent at his respective position after busting out with the New England Patriots late in the season...

DL Tyrunn Walker was considered on his way to being an impact signing for Detroit before a cheap-shot, crack back block ended his campaign early...

Even CB Patrick Robinson has resurrected his NFL career in San Diego...

Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the coaching, stupid"

Seer1 · 03-06-2016, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the lack of coaching, stupid"

FIFY

jeanpierre · 03-07-2016, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Have been perusing the free agency list for defensive upgrades for the defensive line, safety...

Found these interesting nuggets...

Recently signed, extended FS Malcolm Jenkins, Eagles, paired with Walter Thurmond are constantly referred to as the best safety pair in the league...

DE/DT Akiem Hicks is considered a top 10 free agent at his respective position after busting out with the New England Patriots late in the season...

DL Tyrunn Walker was considered on his way to being an impact signing for Detroit before a cheap-shot, crack back block ended his campaign early...

Even CB Patrick Robinson has resurrected his NFL career in San Diego...

Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the coaching, stupid"

Back to the original question - Do we have the defensive coaching to turn this defense around?!? Or does Payton have to do that as well?!?

Seer1 · 03-07-2016, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Back to the original question - Do we have the defensive coaching to turn this defense around?!? Or does Payton have to do that as well?!?

Isn't Peyton the one keeping us from gathering up the coaching we need to turn things around? As long as his old time buds keep occupying the spaces real coaches should be...

02-21-2016, 12:55 PM	#1
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff My biggest concern for the 2016 team is still Dennis Allen... We've got the personnel for a better fit to 3-4 front and that he'll be a stubborn and force the 4-3... Square Pegs/Round Holes...

02-21-2016, 04:43 PM	#2
Danno Truth Addict Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Spanish Fort, AL (via NO and B/R) Posts: 24,748	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by jeanpierre My biggest concern for the 2016 team is still Dennis Allen... We've got the personnel for a better fit to 3-4 front and that he'll be a stubborn and force the 4-3... Square Pegs/Round Holes... How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both. Jordan (can play either) Jenkins (4-3 DT) Williams (4-3 DT) Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4) Anthony (both) Davison (4-3 DT) Richardson (4-3 DE) Kikaha (both) I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat . And I'm sure he can scheme both.

02-21-2016, 08:13 PM	#3
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by Danno How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both. Jordan (can play either) Jenkins (4-3 DT) Williams (4-3 DT) Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4) Anthony (both) Davison (4-3 DT) Richardson (4-3 DE) Kikaha (both) I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat . And I'm sure he can scheme both. I disagree Jordan at jack stinks in a 3-4 A slim version of Jenkins a 4-3 but a beefed up version 3-4 NT Williams 4-3 Ellerbe can play both but on the ILB spot in a 3-4 much much better Anthony- not so sure about his cover skills in a 4-3 but a pro-bowler in a 3-4 Davidson lightning fast NT in a 3-4 or DE in a 3-4 Richardson 4-3 all day long Kiki would be great in a 3-4 Allens DC playbook is limited at best.

02-21-2016, 08:55 PM	#4
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by Danno How so? I think right now we have talent more suited for a 4-3. Or at worst both. Jordan (can play either) Jenkins (4-3 DT) Williams (4-3 DT) Ellerbe (maybe better in a 3-4) Anthony (both) Davison (4-3 DT) Richardson (4-3 DE) Kikaha (both) I guess its gonna depend on who we bring in. Dennis Allen's 4-3 is very similar to a 3-4, so our LB's will be bringing the heat . And I'm sure he can scheme both. I'll go right to the crux of it...Kikaha... Danno, Hau'oli is something special, an elite talent, when rushing the passer from the edge... As a rookie, he came out looking pretty good - and that was under Ryan... Granted he had an injury early, but Allen even admitted Kikaha's responsibilities would move more for coverage in his scheme than Ryan's... This has has made him look average... What makes Payton great is that he built an offense with what he had... Allen is more structured, mimicking Gregg Williams - whom I've never really been impressed; in fact, felt it was more Darren Sharper bailing out the SuperBowl Run with his Pick 6's... Then there's Jenkins, who was clearly drafted as a 3-4 NT, a big reason why we consolidated two draft picks to move up and secure him... Jenkins has been nothing special as a 4-3 DT; having Jenkins slim down what was his strength, was another terrible Allen idea... Totally agree Jordan can play DE in both fronts; pair him with FA Malick Jackson with Jenkins, bulked back up, in the middle - Tyeler Davison, Lawrence Virgil and one more for depth, then you'd really have something special... Then there's Ellerbe and Anthony...both would be better in a 3-4, allowing them to share middle coverage responsibilities, even allowing them to freelance and make more plays... I've posted plenty of reading mat'l about Allen's background, tendencies; and I just get the ill felling he's more of a Coach Mora, make 'em fit a system rather than a Coach who can maximize a player's talents... We're going to find out this FA period, Draft, OffSeason and Regular Season...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

02-21-2016, 09:03 PM	#5
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,740 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Dennis Allen has been predominately a 4-3 coach since day one. In today's NFL you are in your "base package" less than 45% of the down. Match ups, distance etc have over ridden scheme to some degree. I think this season is the time we stop thinking on the idea of filling spaces on traditional alignments and think about what players we will need to blitz, cover running backs and tight ends, and to spy on the Cam Newton's of the world.

02-22-2016, 03:58 AM	#6
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Well, whether it's a 3-4, or a 4-3 under or a 5-2... The mandate for Dennis Allen is simple... Find a way to plug up the middle lanes with Cam Jordan, John Jenkins and a *Malick Jackson-type*... Bring pressure from both edges with Hau'oli Kikaha on one side and Davis Tull/Kasim Edebali from the other... And split the middle of the field between Stephone Anthony and Dannell Ellerbe... You'd be able to run that package for nearly all three downs... K Major likes this.

03-06-2016, 04:05 AM	#7
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Have been perusing the free agency list for defensive upgrades for the defensive line, safety... Found these interesting nuggets... Recently signed, extended FS Malcolm Jenkins, Eagles, paired with Walter Thurmond are constantly referred to as the best safety pair in the league... DE/DT Akiem Hicks is considered a top 10 free agent at his respective position after busting out with the New England Patriots late in the season... DL Tyrunn Walker was considered on his way to being an impact signing for Detroit before a cheap-shot, crack back block ended his campaign early... Even CB Patrick Robinson has resurrected his NFL career in San Diego... Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the coaching, stupid" hagan714 and Seer1 like this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

03-06-2016, 10:27 AM	#8
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by jeanpierre Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the lack of coaching, stupid" FIFY jeanpierre, Rugby Saint II and K Major like this.

03-07-2016, 07:47 AM	#9
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by jeanpierre Have been perusing the free agency list for defensive upgrades for the defensive line, safety... Found these interesting nuggets... Recently signed, extended FS Malcolm Jenkins, Eagles, paired with Walter Thurmond are constantly referred to as the best safety pair in the league... DE/DT Akiem Hicks is considered a top 10 free agent at his respective position after busting out with the New England Patriots late in the season... DL Tyrunn Walker was considered on his way to being an impact signing for Detroit before a cheap-shot, crack back block ended his campaign early... Even CB Patrick Robinson has resurrected his NFL career in San Diego... Well, keep coming back to this thought - "It's the coaching, stupid" Back to the original question - Do we have the defensive coaching to turn this defense around?!? Or does Payton have to do that as well?!?

03-07-2016, 02:12 PM	#10
Seer1 Site Donor Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Bayou Bayfield CO Posts: 4,722	Re: Saints 2016 Coaching Staff Originally Posted by jeanpierre Back to the original question - Do we have the defensive coaching to turn this defense around?!? Or does Payton have to do that as well?!? Isn't Peyton the one keeping us from gathering up the coaching we need to turn things around? As long as his old time buds keep occupying the spaces real coaches should be...

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