Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident

04-12-2016, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law"

Negative; You can't go looking for a fight and then shoot someone and claim stand your ground. That's like someone threatening you, but leaves the area. You go kill them and claim self defense, doesn't work that way...

Now if Will would have hit him and jumped out with a gun in his possession, then you have the right to "stand your ground"

voodooido · 04-12-2016, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Yep, perhaps Will threatened Hayes and went to his car to get his gun, and Hayes shot him before Will got his gun? That would explain why the shooter didn't flee the scene.

It is about to get interesting.

This dude may walk.

The key words were " loaded gun IN Smith's car". If they found it on his person or on the ground it would be different. A threat like "I'm going to get my gun" is not against the law in Louisiana. Now, if he did it in public where a bunch of reasonable citizens heard then Smith could of been arrested for Terrorizing. Until it is proven he had a gun on his person the charge will stick.

burningmetal · 04-12-2016, 07:18 PM

It looks like the sudden stop by hayes in the video caused Will to bump him. It didn't look like much of a hit. I guess technically he should have stopped, but that was hardly reason for Hayes to want to chase him over it. If some gigantic dude comes at my car (yes I know Will was big, too), and is yelling at me, I'd probably go get my gun if I had one. Will could have told him he had a gun to make him back off, but got shot instead.

You don't go chasing people down and causing a wreck, if you're not looking for trouble. I could be completely wrong, of course, but the idea that someone said Will was the aggressor based on whatever he said, sounds ridiculous. Will taps the back of the hummer, and then gets slammed into. I would imagine that would make him pretty angry as well as feel threatened that this guy could do anything. But everyone is assuming the opposite now.

44Champs · 04-12-2016, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law"

Unless Will Smith was pointing a gun at him, I dont think that constitutes standing your ground. But if he was going to get a gun, sounds like Cardelle was thinking he was gonna shoot him before Will had a chance.
-------
I pulled this off the internet:

Not too long ago, standing your ground meant, in part, proving that you tried to retreat from a threat before using self-defense...but not anymore.

"A judge or jury cannot consider the fact that you did not retreat if you're being tried for killing somebody when the defense is justifiable homicide," says Desoto Parish District Attorney, Richard Johnson.

Johnson says Louisiana's law is similar to Florida's and he says the law does not give you the right to aggressively pursue anyone.

"You're allowed to use deadly force and that a homicide is justifiable if you are in imminent danger of losing your life or receiving great bodily harm."

A person must also be acting lawfully in order to claim "Stand Your Ground" as a defense.

"If you see an assailant pointing at you with a gun or taking aim at you, you don't have to turn and run away," says Johnson.

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|Mitch| · 04-12-2016, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by 44Champs

Johnson says Louisiana's law is similar to Florida's and he says the law does not give you the right to aggressively pursue anyone.

...

nola_swammi · 04-12-2016, 07:22 PM

I don't think if I was in Hayes position I would wait for him to get his gun before I react after he said he is going to get his gun. I hate that this happen but the guy is innocent if this what happen. Was he to aggressive by shooting his wife, certainly but if you threaten you might do about anything to survive.

This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons

|Mitch| · 04-12-2016, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons

State of Louisiana, your vehicle is an extension of your home, you can have as many loaded guns as you want. As long as you are not a felon and they are legal of course... I carry a loaded .40 in my mustang pretty much all the time, in a holster mounted between the seat and center console. Easy to get to

burningmetal · 04-12-2016, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by nola_swammi

I don't think if I was in Hayes position I would wait for him to get his gun before I react after he said he is going to get his gun. I hate that this happen but the guy is innocent if this what happen. Was he to aggressive by shooting his wife, certainly but if you threaten you might do about anything to survive.

This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons

If he gets off it will be a technicality, but if it happened the way it's being described, he's hardly innocent. He pursued Smith, and he brought any danger he perceived on himself. Because if he's coming at Smith and making any sort of threat, Will has the right to defend himself. If the guy peaceably approaches, then things could have been much different. But he chased him down, obviously looking for a fight.

RaginCajun83 · 04-12-2016, 07:29 PM

It sounds like he chased down Smith looking for a fight, shooting someone 5 times doesn't sound like self defense, it sounds like a thug wanting to be able to brag that he took out a celebrity

44Champs · 04-12-2016, 07:34 PM

Given the history between the two, I'm starting to thinknthat Smithbwasnt totally innocent in this whole scenario. I think Smith knew it was Hayes in that H2 when he hit and run.

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04-12-2016, 07:14 PM	#181
Threaded by \|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303 Rating: (0 votes - average) Originally Posted by nola_swammi It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law" Negative; You can't go looking for a fight and then shoot someone and claim stand your ground. That's like someone threatening you, but leaves the area. You go kill them and claim self defense, doesn't work that way... Now if Will would have hit him and jumped out with a gun in his possession, then you have the right to "stand your ground"
Views: 30491

04-12-2016, 07:14 PM	#182
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Originally Posted by Danno Yep, perhaps Will threatened Hayes and went to his car to get his gun, and Hayes shot him before Will got his gun? That would explain why the shooter didn't flee the scene. It is about to get interesting. This dude may walk. The key words were " loaded gun IN Smith's car". If they found it on his person or on the ground it would be different. A threat like "I'm going to get my gun" is not against the law in Louisiana. Now, if he did it in public where a bunch of reasonable citizens heard then Smith could of been arrested for Terrorizing. Until it is proven he had a gun on his person the charge will stick.
voodooido 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,766

04-12-2016, 07:18 PM	#183
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident It looks like the sudden stop by hayes in the video caused Will to bump him. It didn't look like much of a hit. I guess technically he should have stopped, but that was hardly reason for Hayes to want to chase him over it. If some gigantic dude comes at my car (yes I know Will was big, too), and is yelling at me, I'd probably go get my gun if I had one. Will could have told him he had a gun to make him back off, but got shot instead. You don't go chasing people down and causing a wreck, if you're not looking for trouble. I could be completely wrong, of course, but the idea that someone said Will was the aggressor based on whatever he said, sounds ridiculous. Will taps the back of the hummer, and then gets slammed into. I would imagine that would make him pretty angry as well as feel threatened that this guy could do anything. But everyone is assuming the opposite now.
	If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.

04-12-2016, 07:19 PM	#184
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Originally Posted by nola_swammi It's the threat that he was going to shoot Hayes and will smith having a loaded gun in his vehicle that will set this guy free. "Stand your ground law" Unless Will Smith was pointing a gun at him, I dont think that constitutes standing your ground. But if he was going to get a gun, sounds like Cardelle was thinking he was gonna shoot him before Will had a chance. ------- I pulled this off the internet: Not too long ago, standing your ground meant, in part, proving that you tried to retreat from a threat before using self-defense...but not anymore. "A judge or jury cannot consider the fact that you did not retreat if you're being tried for killing somebody when the defense is justifiable homicide," says Desoto Parish District Attorney, Richard Johnson. Johnson says Louisiana's law is similar to Florida's and he says the law does not give you the right to aggressively pursue anyone. "You're allowed to use deadly force and that a homicide is justifiable if you are in imminent danger of losing your life or receiving great bodily harm." A person must also be acting lawfully in order to claim "Stand Your Ground" as a defense. "If you see an assailant pointing at you with a gun or taking aim at you, you don't have to turn and run away," says Johnson. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk \|Mitch\| likes this.
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

04-12-2016, 07:21 PM	#185
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Originally Posted by 44Champs Johnson says Louisiana's law is similar to Florida's and he says the law does not give you the right to aggressively pursue anyone. ...

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04-12-2016, 07:22 PM	#186
nola_swammi 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Monroe, La Posts: 2,627	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident I don't think if I was in Hayes position I would wait for him to get his gun before I react after he said he is going to get his gun. I hate that this happen but the guy is innocent if this what happen. Was he to aggressive by shooting his wife, certainly but if you threaten you might do about anything to survive. This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons

04-12-2016, 07:26 PM	#187
\|Mitch\| 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Alexandria, La Posts: 11,303	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Originally Posted by nola_swammi This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons State of Louisiana, your vehicle is an extension of your home, you can have as many loaded guns as you want. As long as you are not a felon and they are legal of course... I carry a loaded .40 in my mustang pretty much all the time, in a holster mounted between the seat and center console. Easy to get to

04-12-2016, 07:27 PM	#188
burningmetal 1000 Posts + Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3,923 Blog Entries: 3	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Originally Posted by nola_swammi I don't think if I was in Hayes position I would wait for him to get his gun before I react after he said he is going to get his gun. I hate that this happen but the guy is innocent if this what happen. Was he to aggressive by shooting his wife, certainly but if you threaten you might do about anything to survive. This about to get very interesting cause I was told a weapon do not suppose to be loaded while in vehicle. Both parties did have loaded weapons If he gets off it will be a technicality, but if it happened the way it's being described, he's hardly innocent. He pursued Smith, and he brought any danger he perceived on himself. Because if he's coming at Smith and making any sort of threat, Will has the right to defend himself. If the guy peaceably approaches, then things could have been much different. But he chased him down, obviously looking for a fight. \|Mitch\| likes this.

04-12-2016, 07:29 PM	#189
RaginCajun83 Hou Saints Fan Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 5,050	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident It sounds like he chased down Smith looking for a fight, shooting someone 5 times doesn't sound like self defense, it sounds like a thug wanting to be able to brag that he took out a celebrity

04-12-2016, 07:34 PM	#190
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589	Re: Ex-Saints DE Will Smith killed; wife shot after traffic accident Given the history between the two, I'm starting to thinknthat Smithbwasnt totally innocent in this whole scenario. I think Smith knew it was Hayes in that H2 when he hit and run. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
44Champs Site Donor Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 2,589

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