2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook

rezburna · 08-18-2017, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this:

POST-6/1 TRADE
2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000
2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000
2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000

Aww man...noted.

ChrisXVI · 08-18-2017, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by rezburna

Aww man...noted.

It is an interesting problem to have isn't it? We have too many good LT's. It looks like Peat is firmly entrenched at LG now though. Zach Strief is ready to retire and had to get a little pay raise to stay because the team knows Armstead's health would be an issue and Ramczyk would be needed at LT. Maybe with the orthopedists being fired Armstead's 4 year long battle with the knee injury will finally be fixed and Ramczyk can settle in at RT next year as planned.

jeanpierre · 08-18-2017, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this:

POST-6/1 TRADE
2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000
2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000
2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000

You could always restructure the contract (sign & trade) where he'd get a little more guaranteed money and the trade partner would agree to those numbers...

I don't think we trade him this year when you factor he'll likely be back for the second half of the season; Zach Strief is getting older and really struggled against Bosa, if this is the year the ole' vet finally does tail off, I'd like to have Armstead coming back to provide fresh legs for a playoff push...

Also, Ramczyk will be a rookie that will eventually hit the rookie wall somewhere around Weeks 11-13, so there's that consideration...

But I think you really have to make an effort at moving one of the three left tackles - Armstead, Peat, Ramczyk - next offseason...

smitty46953 · 08-18-2017, 10:09 AM

How is Manti Teo doing? You guys figure him to start? Old Notre Dame fan here ...

K Major · 08-18-2017, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by smitty46953

How is Manti Teo doing? You guys figure him to start? Old Notre Dame fan here ...

Welcome Smitty

.

In the limited snaps he played vs the Browns last week ... looks like a keeper. I hope Teo gets extended playing time vs SD on Sunday night.

Fingers crossed he stays healthy and balls out from here on out.

hagan714 · 08-18-2017, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisXVI

I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this:

POST-6/1 TRADE
2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000
2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000
2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000

I look at this and think draft and develop an OT in 2018. Can not be any worse than the dead wood vets we have now. Right now I am watching

Ike Boettger OG/OT/TE Iowa 6046 307 5.02 #75 rSr
Totally an upside pick. He came to Iowa as a TE and just grew out of the position. He has shown the athletic ability was not lost with the bulking up. He will have experience as starting swing OT on both sides. last year he showed well as a RT. This year he bounces to LT. Pass blocking is solid enough to invest a pick and start coaching the kid. I think he can also serve as a solid OG prospect. His run blocking was his strong suite. A back up swing OT and possible swing OG with one roster spot is huge. Never know he maybe able to hold down RT with some coaching.

Still keeping an eye on starting center experience and starting experience as a swing OG skills set also

Frank Ragnow C/OG,Arkansas 6052 319 5.14 #72 Sr

Do not panic at OT unless we go through the annual IR yet again in 2018. If so 2019 might be year to chase an LOT in the draft early. Maybe not if some one surprise us all and steps in the roll. Ramczyk?

Now when 2020 rolls around we should be able to deal with the contract and feel like we are hostage.

jeanpierre · 08-18-2017, 11:04 AM

Would love to take Boettger as a Right Tackle or Left Guard in next year's draft...

jeanpierre · 08-20-2017, 07:43 AM

Crunching The Numbers

DEFENSIVE LINE

DE (3) 94 - Cameron Jordan, 91 -Trey Hendrickson (R3, P103), 97 - Al-Quadin Muhammad (R6, P196), 73d - Jason Jones

DT (3) 98 - Sheldon Rankins, 93 - David Onyemata, 92 - Justin Zimmer, 70 - Mitchell Loewen

NT (2) 95 - Tyeler Davison, 76 - Tony McDaniel, 96 - Ashaad Mabry, 68 - John Hughes

DE (2) 57 - Alex Okafor, 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha, 55 - Darryl Tapp, 58 - Obum Gwacham

Cam Jordan is the leader of the defense...
Hendrickson a third round pick was starting to get first team reps when he missed the Cleveland game, if he gets back on track, he's in...
Al has really started a surge with his Cleveland performance, if he continues progression, and those impressive speed moves, he's in...
Jason Jones would have been a nice signing , but this late to the party, he's not making the team...
Rankins is in based on what he flashed in his limited season and first round pick status, he's in, but unit improvement rests mostly on him...
Onyemata has two picks invested, has impressive athleticism with size and has shown he can play DT, DE and now NT, he's in...
Zimmer, or Pitbull as he's know to teammates, is most athletic, strongest of this group, he's not been consistent against first team comp, on the Bubble...
Loewen has really jumped with versatility that Onyemata has, could have really used him last year; he's the wedge buster on coverage units, Bubble...
Despite bravely playing through injury nearly all of season, Davison is still our best NT and is one draft pick the team can be proud, he's in...
McDaniel has tremendous size and great experience, but he's limited to just NT and will likely be a luxury of depth at NT behind Davison who won't play on third downs, he's out...
Mabry is still a great story and has progressed well, if he's not snatched up, he'll be in a great position next year with contracts coming due, Practice Squad...
Hughes, like Jones and McDaniel were late signings that has had some success as reserves in the league, suspect he was brought in as measuring stick against our younger players, he's out...
Okafor looks to be our starter opposite Jordan and is only be asked to be part of a solution opposite Cam, he's in...
Will modern medical marvels never cease? and twenty-plus extra pounds? Kikaha has tremendous heart, should really be lighter in a 3-4 OLB front, he's in...
Darryl Tapp has been a good veteran leader in camp, but being asked to play DT seems like team is trying to find him a spot he can't physical do, he's out...
Gwachum to his credit has trusted coaches and done nearly everything to learn a position late in his progression and with injuries, he'll catch on, just not here....

I see maybe one more spot to fill and it coming down to Zimmer or Loewen, and that is going to be one tough call, Zimmer may get the nod with his physical talent and lack of injuries...

This team hasn't been in this position at defensive line during the Payton era - some good players that would have easily made this team in the past ten years are getting cut...

jeanpierre · 08-20-2017, 03:31 PM

Crunching The Numbers

OFFENSIVE LINE

LT (2) 71 - Ryan Ramcyzk (R1, P32), 69 - Khalif Barnes, 72 - Terron Armstead

LG (2) 75 - Andrus Peat, 77 - John Fullington, 78 - Landon Turner

C (2) 65 - Senio Kelemete, 63 - Cameron Tom (UDFA), 66 - Jack Allen, 60 - Max Unger, 61 - Josh LeRibeus

RG (1) 67 - Larry Warford, 62- Kristjan Sokoli

RT (1) 64 - Zach Strief, 79 - Bryce Harris, 73 - Jerry Ugokwe

Terron Armstead will receive the injury designation that allows him to return later this season, so he's Injured Reserve to Return
Ryan Ramczyk has recovered on schedule and quickly won the LT spot; he'll have his growing pains, but he's now the guy, In
Barnes came back in better shape and showed he's still got some in the tank, he's keeping Armstead's seat warm till return, In, for now
Peat still looks a little uncomfortable at times at LG, but reality has settled in and he's absolutely smashing pancakes as he's overqualified for the position, In
Fullington is the only swing G/T on the roster that's shown some decent tape to this point, he may also be a seatwarmer till Armstead returns, In, for now
This was the year Landon Turner was to take the big leap forward, looks like the scouts had him pegged and rightfully went undrafted, Out
Unger is on schedule to be back by the third pre-season game, whether he's ready to play the whole game Week 1, is little consequence as he'll be on the active roster, IN
Kelemete is our only quality reserve lineman, specializing in the interior, who can spot start with little to no drop off in unit production, In
Cameron Tom has shown the most improvement and highest ceiling of the reserve Centers, he'll need to bulk and learn to play G as well, Practice Squad
LeRibeus is a Redskins castoff who's caught a case of the yips on the long snaps, can't have it, OUT
Allen is an undersized candidate with leadership who's got to be near perfect, also caught the yips on the long snaps, OUT
Warford was the next best thing after Loomis failed to secure the league's best RG, Zeitler, IN
Sokoli should have applied to the league for a European exemption, former D-lineman that most project as an Offensive Lineman, Practice Squad
Strief, Old Reliable, Underrated, Team Leader, Let's hope the ole boy can hold together for another season, or till Armstead gets back, IN
Harris is really a mystery too me, the more he plays the worse he seems to get, he showed so much promise a few seasons ago, OUT
Ugokwe is another swing G/T brought in to compete, but he seems to be too slow grasping the Saints terminology, OUT

The Saints under Payton have traditionally kept eight (8) offensive linemen, with early injuries and expected progression of some of last year's crop, I thought we might keep more, but with the multiple sub-packages and now deeper talent at DL and LB, I suspect we'll stay right at eight...

Seems the Saints envisioned an impressive offensive line that could compete with the best by season's end, with all healthy of:

Starters: Armstead-Peat-Unger-Warford-Strief

Reserves: Ramczyk, Kelemete, and some other kid...

With Armstead likely designated to return mid-season that leaves two spots to be earned and quite frankly, none of the reserves have earned their Fleur-de-lis yet; Fullington and Barnes are better of what's left - hardly a ringing endorsement...

jeanpierre · 08-20-2017, 03:32 PM

Somebody is taking the lead on the last roster spot for offensive lineman; if they all play badly again tonight, I suspect a RB gets traded for a reserve offensive lineman to send a message and improve the unit...

08-18-2017, 09:17 AM	#671
rezburna 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Kenner, LA Posts: 7,935	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by ChrisXVI I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this: POST-6/1 TRADE 2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000 2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000 2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000 Aww man...noted.

08-18-2017, 09:32 AM	#672
ChrisXVI 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 11,482	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by rezburna Aww man...noted. It is an interesting problem to have isn't it? We have too many good LT's. It looks like Peat is firmly entrenched at LG now though. Zach Strief is ready to retire and had to get a little pay raise to stay because the team knows Armstead's health would be an issue and Ramczyk would be needed at LT. Maybe with the orthopedists being fired Armstead's 4 year long battle with the knee injury will finally be fixed and Ramczyk can settle in at RT next year as planned.

08-18-2017, 09:34 AM	#673
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by ChrisXVI I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this: POST-6/1 TRADE 2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000 2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000 2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000 You could always restructure the contract (sign & trade) where he'd get a little more guaranteed money and the trade partner would agree to those numbers... I don't think we trade him this year when you factor he'll likely be back for the second half of the season; Zach Strief is getting older and really struggled against Bosa, if this is the year the ole' vet finally does tail off, I'd like to have Armstead coming back to provide fresh legs for a playoff push... Also, Ramczyk will be a rookie that will eventually hit the rookie wall somewhere around Weeks 11-13, so there's that consideration... But I think you really have to make an effort at moving one of the three left tackles - Armstead, Peat, Ramczyk - next offseason... K Major likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

08-18-2017, 10:09 AM	#674
smitty46953 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook How is Manti Teo doing? You guys figure him to start? Old Notre Dame fan here ... hagan714 and K Major like this.
smitty46953 Rookie Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 3

08-18-2017, 10:14 AM	#675
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,624 Blog Entries: 3	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by smitty46953 How is Manti Teo doing? You guys figure him to start? Old Notre Dame fan here ... Welcome Smitty . In the limited snaps he played vs the Browns last week ... looks like a keeper. I hope Teo gets extended playing time vs SD on Sunday night. Fingers crossed he stays healthy and balls out from here on out. hagan714 and smitty46953 like this.

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08-18-2017, 10:14 AM	#676
hagan714 LB Mentallity Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 15,870 Blog Entries: 68	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Originally Posted by ChrisXVI I don't think we can trade him this year... It would result in $3.2 million in dead cap this year and $10.6 million in dead cap in 2018. Our best bet is to wait until after June 1st next year when OTA/training camp injuries start piling up around the league and the numbers would look like this: POST-6/1 TRADE 2018 Dead Cap: $3,200,000 2019 Dead Cap: $7,400,000 2018 Cap Savings: $10,300,000 I look at this and think draft and develop an OT in 2018. Can not be any worse than the dead wood vets we have now. Right now I am watching Ike Boettger OG/OT/TE Iowa 6046 307 5.02 #75 rSr Totally an upside pick. He came to Iowa as a TE and just grew out of the position. He has shown the athletic ability was not lost with the bulking up. He will have experience as starting swing OT on both sides. last year he showed well as a RT. This year he bounces to LT. Pass blocking is solid enough to invest a pick and start coaching the kid. I think he can also serve as a solid OG prospect. His run blocking was his strong suite. A back up swing OT and possible swing OG with one roster spot is huge. Never know he maybe able to hold down RT with some coaching. Still keeping an eye on starting center experience and starting experience as a swing OG skills set also Frank Ragnow C/OG,Arkansas 6052 319 5.14 #72 Sr Do not panic at OT unless we go through the annual IR yet again in 2018. If so 2019 might be year to chase an LOT in the draft early. Maybe not if some one surprise us all and steps in the roll. Ramczyk? Now when 2020 rolls around we should be able to deal with the contract and feel like we are hostage.
	"We may have lost the game, but you'll be hurting tomorrow." Doug Atkins

08-18-2017, 11:04 AM	#677
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Would love to take Boettger as a Right Tackle or Left Guard in next year's draft...

08-20-2017, 07:43 AM	#678
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Crunching The Numbers DEFENSIVE LINE DE (3) 94 - Cameron Jordan, 91 -Trey Hendrickson (R3, P103), 97 - Al-Quadin Muhammad (R6, P196), *73d - Jason Jones* DT (3) 98 - Sheldon Rankins, 93 - David Onyemata, 92 - Justin Zimmer, 70 - Mitchell Loewen NT (2) 95 - Tyeler Davison, *76 - Tony McDaniel, 96 - Ashaad Mabry, 68 - John Hughes* DE (2) *57 - Alex Okafor, 44 - Hau'oli Kikaha, 55 - Darryl Tapp, 58 - Obum Gwacham Cam Jordan is the leader of the defense...* Hendrickson a third round pick was starting to get first team reps when he missed the Cleveland game, if he gets back on track, he's in... Al has really started a surge with his Cleveland performance, if he continues progression, and those impressive speed moves, he's in... Jason Jones would have been a nice signing , but this late to the party, he's not making the team... Rankins is in based on what he flashed in his limited season and first round pick status, he's in, but unit improvement rests mostly on him... Onyemata has two picks invested, has impressive athleticism with size and has shown he can play DT, DE and now NT, he's in... Zimmer, or Pitbull as he's know to teammates, is most athletic, strongest of this group, he's not been consistent against first team comp, on the Bubble... Loewen has really jumped with versatility that Onyemata has, could have really used him last year; he's the wedge buster on coverage units, Bubble... Despite bravely playing through injury nearly all of season, Davison is still our best NT and is one draft pick the team can be proud, he's in... McDaniel has tremendous size and great experience, but he's limited to just NT and will likely be a luxury of depth at NT behind Davison who won't play on third downs, he's out... Mabry is still a great story and has progressed well, if he's not snatched up, he'll be in a great position next year with contracts coming due, Practice Squad... Hughes, like Jones and McDaniel were late signings that has had some success as reserves in the league, suspect he was brought in as measuring stick against our younger players, he's out... Okafor looks to be our starter opposite Jordan and is only be asked to be part of a solution opposite Cam, he's in... Will modern medical marvels never cease? and twenty-plus extra pounds? Kikaha has tremendous heart, should really be lighter in a 3-4 OLB front, he's in... Darryl Tapp has been a good veteran leader in camp, but being asked to play DT seems like team is trying to find him a spot he can't physical do, he's out... Gwachum to his credit has trusted coaches and done nearly everything to learn a position late in his progression and with injuries, he'll catch on, just not here.... I see maybe one more spot to fill and it coming down to Zimmer or Loewen, and that is going to be one tough call, Zimmer may get the nod with his physical talent and lack of injuries... This team hasn't been in this position at defensive line during the Payton era - some good players that would have easily made this team in the past ten years are getting cut... ChrisXVI likes this.
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way... Last edited by jeanpierre; 08-20-2017 at 07:57 AM..

08-20-2017, 03:31 PM	#679
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Crunching The Numbers OFFENSIVE LINE LT (2) 71 - Ryan Ramcyzk (R1, P32), *69 - Khalif Barnes, 72 - Terron Armstead* LG (2) 75 - Andrus Peat, 77 - John Fullington, 78 - Landon Turner C (2) 65 - Senio Kelemete, *63 - Cameron Tom (UDFA), 66 - Jack Allen, 60 - Max Unger, 61 - Josh LeRibeus* RG (1) *67 - Larry Warford, 62- Kristjan Sokoli* RT (1) 64 - Zach Strief, *79 - Bryce Harris, 73 - Jerry Ugokwe* Terron Armstead will receive the injury designation that allows him to return later this season, so he's Injured Reserve to Return Ryan Ramczyk has recovered on schedule and quickly won the LT spot; he'll have his growing pains, but he's now the guy, In Barnes came back in better shape and showed he's still got some in the tank, he's keeping Armstead's seat warm till return, In, for now Peat still looks a little uncomfortable at times at LG, but reality has settled in and he's absolutely smashing pancakes as he's overqualified for the position, In *Fullington is the only swing* G/T on the roster that's shown some decent tape to this point, he may also be a seatwarmer till Armstead returns, In, for now This was the year Landon Turner was to take the big leap forward, looks like the scouts had him pegged and rightfully went undrafted, Out Unger is on schedule to be back by the third pre-season game, whether he's ready to play the whole game Week 1, is little consequence as he'll be on the active roster, IN Kelemete is our only quality reserve lineman, specializing in the interior, who can spot start with little to no drop off in unit production, In Cameron Tom has shown the most improvement and highest ceiling of the reserve Centers, he'll need to bulk and learn to play G as well, Practice Squad LeRibeus is a Redskins castoff who's caught a case of the yips on the long snaps, can't have it, OUT Allen is an undersized candidate with leadership who's got to be near perfect, also caught the yips on the long snaps, OUT Warford was the next best thing after Loomis failed to secure the league's best RG, Zeitler, IN Sokoli should have applied to the league for a European exemption, former D-lineman that most project as an Offensive Lineman, Practice Squad Strief, Old Reliable, Underrated, Team Leader, Let's hope the ole boy can hold together for another season, or till Armstead gets back, IN Harris is really a mystery too me, the more he plays the worse he seems to get, he showed so much promise a few seasons ago, OUT Ugokwe is another swing G/T brought in to compete, but he seems to be too slow grasping the Saints terminology, OUT** The Saints under Payton have traditionally kept eight (8) offensive linemen, with early injuries and expected progression of some of last year's crop, I thought we might keep more, but with the multiple sub-packages and now deeper talent at DL and LB, I suspect we'll stay right at eight... Seems the Saints envisioned an impressive offensive line that could compete with the best by season's end, with all healthy of: Starters: Armstead-Peat-Unger-Warford-Strief Reserves: Ramczyk, Kelemete, and some other kid... With Armstead likely designated to return mid-season that leaves two spots to be earned and quite frankly, none of the reserves have earned their Fleur-de-lis yet; Fullington and Barnes are better of what's left - hardly a ringing endorsement...
	It's not that my way is the right way, I just make the right way my way...

08-20-2017, 03:32 PM	#680
jeanpierre Site Donor 2018 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Thibodaux Posts: 43,543 Blog Entries: 39	Re: 2017 New Orleans Saints: Roster Outlook Somebody is taking the lead on the last roster spot for offensive lineman; if they all play badly again tonight, I suspect a RB gets traded for a reserve offensive lineman to send a message and improve the unit...

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