Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

If it's 4th or above, hoping it's conditional. Carr is a quality QB, I'd be most worried about the driver (Carmichael)

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I think most of our problem last year was that the driver (Carmichael) was trying to drive a car with multiple flat tires (offensive line injuries) and an underpowered engine (Dalton).

We saw a much more aggressive approach by Carmichael in the 30 plus games he play called prior to last season with a more talented QB (Brees) than Dalton and a healthier offensive line. I'm hoping that can be the case moving forward.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Is Derek Carr really more like Jim Everett 2.0, and not Drew Brees 2.0 ?

Everett was 31 when he was traded to the Saints. Derek Carr is 31.

We got 3 years out of Everett before we moved on.

We were thinking that we were getting 1988 or 1989 Everett when he showed up in 1994. He was more like 1992 and 1993 Everett.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I think Derek is more like (skill set) Winston.

Not the popular opinion but I'd like to keep JW around as "backup" & be done with Dalton.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Then let's roll with Winston, leave Carr alone, and draft a couple of QBs and see what shakes out

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I don't think Dennis Allen has any faith in Winston and I expect him to be backing up another quarterback next year. Also, Dennis Allen is already under the microscope and on the hot seat and probably feels the need for a veteran to help solidify the offense so he doesn't get fired. Good luck with that.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

The Saints clearly are not willing to toss everything out and "rebuild" as some fans suggest. Carr is a known commodity while any QB coming through the draft is to varying degrees unknowns as it applies to the NFL. I'm really warming to the idea of bringing Carr in and using our draft and remaining cap assets in plugging a few of the holes around him and starting competing immediately. We would be favorites to win the division from day one.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I don’t think anyone has a drop of faith in JW. It’s time for him to become a cheap backup or bag groceries. I’m all for going all in to get carr.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I originally wanted Derek Carr to come in because I had hoped he would be able to take the New Orleans Saints strong core to the playoffs in a division championship, but then I thought about a small rebuild where we bring in our quarterback of the future and build around him with our extra capital. I am definitely open to Derek Carr and the short-term potential he offers.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

The problem with that is that it may take a decade of drafting QB's until we can find one that can fit the bill of "QB of the future". By then our capital would have been wasted and we could have spent the entire decade floundering while hoping that the next one might work out.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Excellent point!

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Exactly... that's why you make the move and restructure the contract a la Loomis. And also draft QBs, even in the second round. In fact I'd draft two QBs, Hooker and some other one, maybe the Fresno St QB, the senior bowl MVP. Stetson could an UDFA too. Come to think of it, isn't it how the Feagles did it?

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I’m good for going for Carr. But his salary is HUGE for a QB that has probably reached his ceiling. I think he’s better then what we have and can be productive but dang! That’s a lot of dough and it’ll probably take a 2nd or 3 rounder to boot.

Yikes!

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Restructuring would be promised in the trade. He knows he is not worth what he’s being paid. Backload the new contract until this cap mess clears up

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Restructuring his base salary to a signing bonus is an advantage to the player. Instead of getting 17 weekly game checks he gets the bulk of it up front. The team just accounts for it in subsequent years.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Carr is still meeting with the Saints.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Just FYI, Carr is 32 in a few weeks. Not that it matters to the front office. They're gonna do what they're gonna do, regardless of what we think!
;)

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Got a good feeling it's a wink, wink deal.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

This. Go QB crazy. I’d bring three new QB’s into the organization next year.

Carr
Hooker
Bennett

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I'm wondering if Mickey is thinking about striking a deal for Carr now, so he doesn't get cut by Raiders and go to free agency where he could select another team over us, especially for financial reasons. It does make sense, because Carr is pretty much all by himself on Tier 2 of all available non-rookie QB's ... Lamar is alone on Tier 1 and basically everyone else (Dalton, Bridgewater, Brissett, etc.) is on Tier 3 or lower. Gut is telling me we pull the trigger and he doesn't get to free agency. Mickey loves renegotiating as we go to navigate the cap concerns, the whole buy-now-pay-later mentality (for better or worse).

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I like McCee, big qb. will have to develop but reminds me of Big Ben
Duggan-i just like his style of play, tough guy, gunslinger
McCall- my favorite to develop good size, accurate as he!! and can run
Haener is my sleeper pick at qb. Farve traits but not a big qb
All these guys should be from the 2nd to the late 4th not killing us on #1. Lots of cushion this year on qb.'s

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Don't forget that Carr has a no trade clause in his contract and he has to okay any trade. The final decision has to come down to him. We need to sell him now on his future with us.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Agreed, but two things are working in our favor for him to permit the trade - (1) he has a pretty good contract right now and might want it continue rather than risk next deal will be lesser in term and dollars. Coming off a down-year, now may not be a good time to hit the market and (2) he's played for DA before.


Oh and (3) he'd instantly be the best QB in the division.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Good take from Matt.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Gonna need a TE and some fresh legged rb's for Carr.
Michael Mayer( Michael Meyers) TE-Notre Dame
Zach Charbonnette-rb- UCLA
Kenny McIntosh-rb- Georgia
Tyjae Spears- rb- Tulane
I threw in a G also
Jarrett Patterson- plug and play
Trade Kamara for a pick and go.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

He makes some really good points, but I don’t necessarily agree with comparing Carr to a 32 year old Dalton…to many variables to make it a fair assessment imo. If we get a rejuvenated Carr that’s motivated and ready to redeem himself then it’ll be great. Its definitely a gamble. I do not under any circumstances want to trade for him. Let him hit free agency and offer a fair contract that is appealing to both sides and if he chooses another team instead then it is what it is. We can look to the draft for a qb and continue to build this team

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Matt was all in for Deshawn Watson last year. That would have been the worst in Saints history, with all due respect.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

I am deeply against signing Carr. I could be wrong but I just dont think he has that it factor. He is good but not great. He is Jake Delhomme. He is Andy Dalton. He is Alex Smith. He is Kirk Cousins. We played the ‘ignore his losses because it was the Raiders’ card with Dennis Allen and he still lost. Carr could be the same. This is a guy who had a top 3-5 NFL WR and we shut him out. We didn’t shut out Minshew. We didnt shut our Darnold. We didn’t shut out Mayfield. We didn’t shut out Mariota. We didnt shut out Ridder. We did shut out Carr. I think there is a real chance if Carr maintains or lightly elevated his play he leads us to a glorious 9-8 season. Maybe even a 9-8 NFC South championship. But that is not a ring. Maybe if it works he gets us where Dalton got the Bengals or where Delhomme got the Panthers or where Alex Smith got the Chiefs. Yeah he had no defense in Oakland but Brees had no defense in New Orleans yet had that it factor. And thats if he is who he was a couple years ago. Its also possible this is his decline and we get Broncos Russell Wilson or Patriots Cam Newton.

On the money side Carr makes $33 million next year and $40 million in 2024. I dont think we can afford to pay him $33 million in 2023 so that means more of the magic out of Loomis. That magic means his salary is $1 million in 2023 and something like $15 million extra each season deferred to 2024 and 2025 on top of the existing $40 million salaries each of those years, which are mostly not guaranteed, but are harder to cut with the guaranteed deferred money tacked on. Then if he fails in 2023 the dead cap to cut him in 2024 will be something like $40 million, perhaps more if his restructure increases guarantees. If he is ok in 2023 and we kick it down the road a year we likely restructure again and the dead cap to cut in 2025 could be something like $50 million because most of his 2023 and 2024 salaries will be converted to future deferred bonuses. If he does great in 2023 we still probably cant afford to commit $50-55 million or something to him in 2024. His current 2024 salary is $40 million plus we will likely defer $10-15 million or so of his 2023 salary to 2024. So if he does well in 2023 we will have to sign him to a long term extension that is long enough to stretch $50 million the first year and likely a similar figure in 2025 into digestible chunksover future years with the big money coming in later years. That means if Carr had one solid year we might have to sign him to some kind of 5-8 year contract to work magic with our screwed up cap because we cant afford his salary the next couple years so we need to go a lot longer to spread out the money. So then we are betting on a second tier Raiders QB to be solid into his late 30’s or until 40. We can cut him in the later years or add voidable years but then we stack up a bigger dewd cap hit when Carr is washed than when Brees retires. It would be all worth it if he gets us a ring in 2023. But I just dont buy that we are getting a ring in 2023 with David Carr along with characters like Andrus Peat, likely Kamara and Maye suspensions, an older Jordan and Mathieu, etc. We need to clean up our cap and get younger. We aren’t an Alex Smith away from a ring, we are a Patrick Maholmes away.

If Carr was willing to greatly reduce his salary to about $20 million a year it might be fair for him and not a terrible deal if the trade price was cheap, but still I feel it is not a good deal for a cap poor team like us that will have to back load a ton of money even for that and commit to a lot of dead cap if it doesnt work out.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

A pretty realistic take IMO...We all know Dalton was not a long-term answer, I do think he unfortunately was the best answer last year. I still feel if deals are to be made, they need to be made with a future in mind. Maybe you hold Dalton this year, and pay him 10 million and deal for the future.

I do not think there is any fix for the "NOW". There are quite a few weaknesses all around. I don't think you kill the team and totally rebuild, but I do think we bring in or draft a few key pieces. TE, OL, RB and Safety.

Saints are in a tough position, but they are have been for quite a few years.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

No disagreement. But pragmatically, QB salaries even for tier two guys is getting ridiculously up there. Hence my view to use him as a bridge QB and bring in a couple of new QBs in the draft and see what sticks, Hooker and some other one, maybe the Fresno St QB.

DA is under the gun. And this year will be in reality his first year sans SP's shadow, all the staff changes notwithstanding. Never know... the half glass full Saints fan may think Carr is good enough to edge out the teams in the NFC South.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

It's really the only logical path. Carr gets cut, and Saints sign him to a more cap friendly deal, and he is a bridge QB, provided we draft a couple QBs between this year and next to develop.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

There are basically twelve teams in the market for a starting QB. I doubt Carr will be willing to take a bargain deal to be a temporary starter. If we do somehow sign him it would most likely be with the understanding that he will be our starter for the foreseeable future. The most cost effective way of doing that would be picking up his existing contract via trade. That will not preclude us from drafting and developing QB's along the way, much like the Patriots did while Brady was under center. Look at Matt Cassel and Jimmy Garoppolo.

Any wink, wink would have to do with Carr waiting until the trade window opens on March 15.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Yeah... probably. Yet , all the points made are valid, especially the ones regarding whether it's even worth doing in light of our numerous needs. If we're going to suck no matter what, why even do the deal? We can suck just as much and maybe still eek out enough of a record to win the NFC South, but with a QB on a rookie contract. And if it does not work out, we're sitting pretty in year 2024, the vaunted year for QBs coming out of college.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Accurate.

The Saints need a lot. IMO, this team is 2, or 3 years away from truly competing.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr
 

Who says we're going to suck no matter what? I would suspect that the players, coaches, and front office have far more lofty goals than those of a defeatist subset of the Saints fanbase. With everything the Saints have said or done in this offseason it seems clear to me that they are planning to continue the philosophy of trying their best to win now. That is ingrained into the current culture and there's no good reason to change.

Carr's current deal can be easily restructured to convert his 2023 salary into a signing bonus an minimize the current year cap hit. That would give us plenty of room to make moves in free agency to plug some off those numerous needs you mention.

Re: I'd like to try and get Derek Carr