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this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton I hope we can get a monster DT in the draft to pair with him I don't know what we are doing at the DT position. Drafting another seems like too much. We restructured both Saunders ...
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#1 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
I don't know what we are doing at the DT position. Drafting another seems like too much. We restructured both Saunders and Shepard. Bresee flashed as a backup. Roach had the highest PFF rating by far but is perhaps an afterthought because we are broke so you don't keep the best man you keep the one you can't afford the dead cap to cut. Drafting the position again before we really know what we have in last years 1st round pick seems insane.
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#2 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
Well Bresee led DTs in sacks with 4.5, so I’d say thats a little more than just flashed. He has shown he’ll be a force with a great future as long as he stays healthy. Saunders and Shepard are fine for now, but in a couple of years it’d be nice to have two young studs anchor that position for the future while adding to the DE position.
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#3 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton
I hope the best for Bresee. But realistically I think we need to hold off on the annointing oil. Truth is he was neither a bust nor breakout. 4.5 sacks is nice but not enough sample size to prove anything great. It’s equivalent to Trequan Smith’s 5 receiving TDs as a rookie, as sacks and receiving TDs are similar scarcity. Bresee’s pff score was like 50. He needs to start before we even start getting too excited.
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#4 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
I’m not really interested in his pff grade as a rookie. I’m not saying he came in and played as a pro bowl level DT, but I’m very optimistic from what I saw on game day. But to put it in perspective, cam Jordan had 1 sack, 18 tackles, 16 pressures his rookie year vs bresee had 4.5 sacks, 12 tackles, 18 pressures.![]()
I feel very confident, barring injuries, that he’ll be a hell of a player for us and I really want another promising rookie DT. Hell, I want a whole youth movement along that line. |
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#5 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton
There are some people on this forum who say all our members opinions are garbage and they would trust Mickey Loomis over all of us because he is a professional with untold expertise and resources. I guess that is my position with PFF. They watch every play 10x in slow motion or whatever and have a large staff developing a grading system. They are able to attract the respect of many experts and many subscribers. Their numbers, although not perfect, seem to align with what I see and be a better guide than optimistic fans. They have competed with other services and risen to the top. So while I think Mickey Loomis is a joke who lucked into his job and is sitting around all day golfing and chugging bottles of Beam, and others think he has a PhD in football, I guess I am on the the opposite side with pff and respect pff over random board members eyeball test. Clearly Bresee got a few sacks, but I think the low grades mean there are issues in other parts of his game. If he was a walking sack machine why wasn't he starting over low budget journeymen? How was he in run support? Did he blow assignments? For example, Bresee had 6 penalties as a backup vs 7 total penalties for all our other starting and backup dline combined. Call me back when his sack numbers at least exceed his penalties. To me, 4.5 sacks and 6 penalties sounds like a net loss. Hopefully he can clean up the penalties over time, but maybe when he does he gets less of a jump and gets less sacks too.![]()
https://www.footballdb.com/stats/pen...?tm=20&yr=2023 |
Last edited by BakoSaint; 02-28-2024 at 10:03 PM.. |
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#6 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by BakoSaint
Jalen Carter had a pff grade of 90 and is reguarded as one of the best rookies out of that class and had only 1.5 sacks more and one less penalty than Bresee. You made a valiant effort with your points, but I’m sticking to my opinion on this one
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#7 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Originally Posted by Mr.Riaton
Agree to disagree. I think PFF are generally professionals and although they cannot factor in certain intangibles like how a player performs in clutch situations and the postseason, they are the best metric we have.![]()
Carter also added two forces fumbles and a fumble recovery. Given that Carter is a heavier and more stout in stature, its not unreasonable to speculate that he may have been much better against the run, and the Saints regressed against the run this year. Meanwhile Carter also added a bit more sacks with a bit less penalties. The Saints also played a historically easy schedule and the easiest part of the Saints schedule was the QBs, playing an incredible cast of D-list backup, lame duck, journeyman, and draft bust QBs. The particular weakness of the Saints super easy schedule was the offenses they faced, as many of their opponents had closer to average defenses. The Eagles schedule was more average all around. Bresee was essentially out there hunting minnows for his 4.5 sacks. Also, you can't sack the QB if a teammate does it first. That put Bresee in a foot race with a bunch of tortoises on our pass rush while Carter was in an olympic sprint with the Eagles defense. The folks at PFF actually watch all the plays multiple times in slow motion. They likely timed how fast Bresee actually got to the QB, and maybe they were not so impressed if he got to Tommy Devito in 10 seconds or got Baker Mayfield to hold the ball a little too long. Actually 4 of Bresee's 4.5 sacks were against Devito and Mayfield who earned a combined $5 million salary. You just can't judge an entire rookie season 5 plays and break out the anointing oil. To me, I have high hopes for Bresee, I see the potential, but the jury is still out. 4.5 sacks and a 45 PFF is not the second coming of Warren Sapp just yet. When guys like Kamara and Lattimore tore it up with crazy PFF numbers their rookie year we believed it. We should not pick and choose and dismiss PFF when we don't like the number. Especially for a position like DT that does not rely on anyone throwing the the ball or blocking for them and is in a position to make their own luck by beating their man. Carter consistently beat his man. Bresee sacked Devito twice and Mayfield twice and stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. |
Last edited by BakoSaint; 02-29-2024 at 12:30 AM.. |
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#8 |
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Re: Official 2024 Saints Draft Discussion
Saints Bresee Earns Rookie Recognition
New Orleans Saints rookie defensive tackle Bryan Bresee has already received a few early postseason recognition for his first-year achievements. Former NFL general manager Rick Spielman and CBS draft analyst Ryan Wilson named Bresee to their 2023 All-Rookie Team on the With the First Pick Podcast on CBSSports.com this week. Bresee joined Philadelphia Eagles DT Jalen Carter, the ninth overall choice, on the CBS All-Rookie squad. Bresee made an immediate impact with New Orleans, something he was able to sustain throughout his inaugural season. He's appeared in all 16 games for a defense that ranks sixth in points against and 13th in total yardage allowed. Bresee has 4.5 sacks, with two more disallowed by penalty this season. He's also added nine QB hits, seven tackles for loss, and 13 pressures for the Saints. Bresee has also tipped or batted down six passes and has significantly improved as a run defender. The 6'5" and 305-Lb. Bresee has a terrific combination of power and athletic ability. He also plays with a non-stop motor, allowing him to make a lot of plays on second effort. He's shown a wider array of pass rush moves during the course of the season, further raising the bar of his tremendous potential. Bryan Bresee has the look of a potential star. He's created consistent disruption for the New Orleans defense all season and greatly improved what had been an underachieving defensive interior over the previous two seasons. It's likely just the beginning of even bigger things to come for Bresee. |
“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill
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