Saints Insiders?

lumm0x · 09-17-2003, 11:51 AM

saintfan and BillyC....I don\'t believe either of you are referring to me with these posts, so I\'m not saying this in effort to defend myself here, but......
I like to think I keep a pretty open mind about any arguement. There is and always has been an arguement on here about Aaron Brooks. I just don\'t understand what it is.

The self-labelled Brooks supporters have many times openly acknowledged that he is not flawless, they accept his idiosyncracies as the visible weaknesses that every player will have and they focus on what has been good and what might be better.

The title-acquired Brooks bashers have also many times acknowledged that he is the most productive Saints QB ever, that he has elite skills and unlimited potential in this game. They however, focus on the negative aspects of his play in effort to critique what elements in his game are lacking and how he could be a better QB.

What is the arguement? Everyone thinks he has done some good things, has some areas that need improvement, but has the necessary abilities to be better. The arguements over will he be better are individual opinions based on nothing. To compare him to other great QB\'s that took time to develop is meaningless. To compare him to elite athletes that busted is meaningless. Everyone that argues this also acknowledges that we will never know until it happens. So why the ine in the sand seperating lovers and haters?

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-17-2003, 11:56 AM

LummOX --

There are some members that criticise and called for him to be cut !! Not only have they done that but they go out of there way to bash the guy at every opportunity. That is the problem.

tweeky · 09-17-2003, 11:58 AM

Lumm0x,
Beautifully said. I agree 1000% and more.
However it won\'t change a single frickin\' thing.
The Bashers will keep bashing no matter what.
And the Supporters will keep supporting.

Why waste your time with logic and sensibility?

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-17-2003, 12:00 PM

If anyone doesn\'t see that some members go out of their way to criticise Brooks then you are not fooling me, you are fooling yourself. Get Real !!

unsaintly77 · 09-17-2003, 12:43 PM

First things first BMG have you stop beating your wife. I dont want to have a all pro brooks forum, but i would like to have a all Saints forum. Some of you seemed more happy after the seattle game than the houston, i am starting to wonder if billy is right about some of the people in hear being fans of other teams. I dont think critisizing the team when the F up makes you a bad fan but critisizing them after they tore a new one into houston makes me think otherwisel. I would hate to watch a game with some of you, i would probably have to pull my foot out your a**es before the halftime show. Remember this is a saints forum.

JOESAM2002 · 09-17-2003, 01:01 PM

Well said Lummox. The way I see it is, since I do believe you\'re right, then if everyone agreed with your post this would be one quiet board. There would be nothing to argue about and call names about. God forbid they\'d have to talk about Saints football. LOL. So keep going you guys. It gives me something to do. Just leave out the name calling. You know who you are, so I won\'t mention any names.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-17-2003, 01:08 PM

I just can\'t get no sat-is-faction. I try and I try and I try. But I can\'t get no sat-is-faction.

saintfan · 09-17-2003, 01:21 PM

Some people simply aren\'t happy unless they\'re complaining about something. I think those of us that support AB aren\'t asking for much really, just a fair comparison. To be critical of our QB\'s performance is mighty fine, but to be overly critical because of an agenda (see Delhomme supporters in general -- among others) or because the man isn\'t perfect is unfair, and those of us that support AB SHOULD call those people out EVERY time, and we do.

lumm0x · 09-17-2003, 01:27 PM

I can plainly see that members go out of their way to criticize Brooks. You\'re right, who can\'t see that. But it\'s not limited to Brooks, members criticize coaches and players of all positions. I doesn\'t make them bashers, but simply critical fans. I have gone out of my way to criticize Brooks in here. I\'ve pointed out his weaknesses in more posts than I care to count. He\'s not perfect and no one in here thinks he is. I will plainly admit that at the end of last season I was openly against him playing in the last game and even the second half of the Cincinnati game. I will still stand behind that call. I still feel he shouldn\'t have been in the game in the second half of the Cincy game, and had took a rest in the second half of that game I would have felt better about the Carolina game if he started. But hindsight is 20/20 and who knows what may have happened. The results may have well been the same and it would be moot.
Anyways, he is not exempt from criticism. Why should he be? And to criticize someone wil in no way detract from what they have done or may do. Brooks touches the ball on virtually every offensive snap and must be included in the assessment of every one of those plays. He is the centerpiece of our offense and thus, any comments will rotate around his performance. He is the crew chief of a unit and if the unit fails to perform, everyone will look to the crew chief. This does not reflect the crew chiefs individual effort, but the unit\'s performance. If you want to stand in the center then you have to be prepared to stand in the front.

I really like Brooks and I believe he\'s done enough and does enough to be a starter in this league. I don\'t believe he\'s one of the 5 best QB\'s in this league right now. I don\'t believe he\'s one of the 5 worst either. He\'s one of my favorite Saints players, but I don\'t get upset when someone does criticize him, and I will do it myself. Like I said in a previous post....you seem to have Brooks goggles just like I have Swilling/Payton goggles. That\'s all there is to it, and that\'s not an insult to you but an observation.

BillyCarpenter1 · 09-17-2003, 01:40 PM

LummOx,

Exactly what the hell is your definition of BASHER? You make it sound like all critcism is justified. Well it AIN\'T. Not in my book anyway. I could sit here and tell you Pat Swilling was only good at rushing the passer and couldn\'t talkle a runnning back. I could tell you anything about Pat Swilling that\'s unjustified and make unfair comparisons. I think you need to look up the definition of BASHER!! There\'s a big difference between basher and criticism. I guess you are trying to tell me that theres no BROOKS BASHING going on here? Is that what you\'re trying to tell me? Let\'s get this clear.

09-17-2003, 11:51 AM	#31
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Saints Insiders? saintfan and BillyC....I don\'t believe either of you are referring to me with these posts, so I\'m not saying this in effort to defend myself here, but...... I like to think I keep a pretty open mind about any arguement. There is and always has been an arguement on here about Aaron Brooks. I just don\'t understand what it is. The self-labelled Brooks supporters have many times openly acknowledged that he is not flawless, they accept his idiosyncracies as the visible weaknesses that every player will have and they focus on what has been good and what might be better. The title-acquired Brooks bashers have also many times acknowledged that he is the most productive Saints QB ever, that he has elite skills and unlimited potential in this game. They however, focus on the negative aspects of his play in effort to critique what elements in his game are lacking and how he could be a better QB. What is the arguement? Everyone thinks he has done some good things, has some areas that need improvement, but has the necessary abilities to be better. The arguements over will he be better are individual opinions based on nothing. To compare him to other great QB\'s that took time to develop is meaningless. To compare him to elite athletes that busted is meaningless. Everyone that argues this also acknowledges that we will never know until it happens. So why the ine in the sand seperating lovers and haters?

09-17-2003, 11:56 AM	#32
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Saints Insiders? LummOX -- There are some members that criticise and called for him to be cut !! Not only have they done that but they go out of there way to bash the guy at every opportunity. That is the problem.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-17-2003, 11:58 AM	#33
tweeky 500th Post Join Date: May 2003 Location: South Alabama Posts: 779	Saints Insiders? Lumm0x, Beautifully said. I agree 1000% and more. However it won\'t change a single frickin\' thing. The Bashers will keep bashing no matter what. And the Supporters will keep supporting. Why waste your time with logic and sensibility?

09-17-2003, 12:00 PM	#34
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Saints Insiders? If anyone doesn\'t see that some members go out of their way to criticise Brooks then you are not fooling me, you are fooling yourself. Get Real !!
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-17-2003, 12:43 PM	#35
unsaintly77 Rookie Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 15	Saints Insiders? First things first BMG have you stop beating your wife. I dont want to have a all pro brooks forum, but i would like to have a all Saints forum. Some of you seemed more happy after the seattle game than the houston, i am starting to wonder if billy is right about some of the people in hear being fans of other teams. I dont think critisizing the team when the F up makes you a bad fan but critisizing them after they tore a new one into houston makes me think otherwisel. I would hate to watch a game with some of you, i would probably have to pull my foot out your a**es before the halftime show. Remember this is a saints forum.
unsaintly77 Rookie Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 15

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09-17-2003, 01:01 PM	#36
JOESAM2002 1000 Posts + Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CRYSTAL BEACH TEXAS Posts: 4,100	Saints Insiders? Well said Lummox. The way I see it is, since I do believe you\'re right, then if everyone agreed with your post this would be one quiet board. There would be nothing to argue about and call names about. God forbid they\'d have to talk about Saints football. LOL. So keep going you guys. It gives me something to do. Just leave out the name calling. You know who you are, so I won\'t mention any names.

09-17-2003, 01:08 PM	#37
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Saints Insiders? I just can\'t get no sat-is-faction. I try and I try and I try. But I can\'t get no sat-is-faction.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209

09-17-2003, 01:21 PM	#38
saintfan Donated Plasma Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 18,556 Blog Entries: 5	Saints Insiders? Some people simply aren\'t happy unless they\'re complaining about something. I think those of us that support AB aren\'t asking for much really, just a fair comparison. To be critical of our QB\'s performance is mighty fine, but to be overly critical because of an agenda (see Delhomme supporters in general -- among others) or because the man isn\'t perfect is unfair, and those of us that support AB SHOULD call those people out EVERY time, and we do.

09-17-2003, 01:27 PM	#39
lumm0x Resident antediluvian Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,026	Saints Insiders? I can plainly see that members go out of their way to criticize Brooks. You\'re right, who can\'t see that. But it\'s not limited to Brooks, members criticize coaches and players of all positions. I doesn\'t make them bashers, but simply critical fans. I have gone out of my way to criticize Brooks in here. I\'ve pointed out his weaknesses in more posts than I care to count. He\'s not perfect and no one in here thinks he is. I will plainly admit that at the end of last season I was openly against him playing in the last game and even the second half of the Cincinnati game. I will still stand behind that call. I still feel he shouldn\'t have been in the game in the second half of the Cincy game, and had took a rest in the second half of that game I would have felt better about the Carolina game if he started. But hindsight is 20/20 and who knows what may have happened. The results may have well been the same and it would be moot. Anyways, he is not exempt from criticism. Why should he be? And to criticize someone wil in no way detract from what they have done or may do. Brooks touches the ball on virtually every offensive snap and must be included in the assessment of every one of those plays. He is the centerpiece of our offense and thus, any comments will rotate around his performance. He is the crew chief of a unit and if the unit fails to perform, everyone will look to the crew chief. This does not reflect the crew chiefs individual effort, but the unit\'s performance. If you want to stand in the center then you have to be prepared to stand in the front. I really like Brooks and I believe he\'s done enough and does enough to be a starter in this league. I don\'t believe he\'s one of the 5 best QB\'s in this league right now. I don\'t believe he\'s one of the 5 worst either. He\'s one of my favorite Saints players, but I don\'t get upset when someone does criticize him, and I will do it myself. Like I said in a previous post....you seem to have Brooks goggles just like I have Swilling/Payton goggles. That\'s all there is to it, and that\'s not an insult to you but an observation.

09-17-2003, 01:40 PM	#40
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209	Saints Insiders? LummOx, Exactly what the hell is your definition of BASHER? You make it sound like all critcism is justified. Well it AIN\'T. Not in my book anyway. I could sit here and tell you Pat Swilling was only good at rushing the passer and couldn\'t talkle a runnning back. I could tell you anything about Pat Swilling that\'s unjustified and make unfair comparisons. I think you need to look up the definition of BASHER!! There\'s a big difference between basher and criticism. I guess you are trying to tell me that theres no BROOKS BASHING going on here? Is that what you\'re trying to tell me? Let\'s get this clear.
BillyCarpenter1 Banned Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,209