You're Sean Payton

AsylumGuido · 01-08-2017, 12:40 PM

I simply don't get this fascination with Wade Phillips. There is no way Denver would voluntarily cut ties with Phillips. They have the perfect set of personnel for his scheme. Why would Phillips ever consider leaving the perfect setup to go to a team with nothing in place to support his style of play? Not only does it not make sense for the Broncos or for Phillips, it makes no sense for the Saints to once again ditch a base defensive scheme that they have spent the past two years populating to once again start over. That would guarantee another two or more years of defensive struggles just due to instability. That is the last thing the Saints need.

If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?

Tobias-Reiper · 01-09-2017, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I simply don't get this fascination with Wade Phillips.

So, as DC, the past decade:
2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds
2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds
2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds
2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds
2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds
2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds
2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds

It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB.

There is no way Denver would voluntarily cut ties with Phillips

Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something...

Why would Phillips ever consider leaving the perfect setup to go to a team with nothing in place to support his style of play?

And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...?

... it makes no sense for the Saints to once again ditch a base defensive scheme that they have spent the past two years populating to once again start over. That would guarantee another two or more years of defensive struggles just due to instability. That is the last thing the Saints need.

And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...?

If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?

I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity?

halloween 65 · 01-09-2017, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

So, as DC, the past decade:
2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds
2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds
2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds
2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds
2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds
2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds
2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds

It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB.

Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something...

And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...?

And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...?

If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?[/QUOTE]
I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity?[/QUOTE]

Exactly. A proven DC over a ? anyday. I just don't understand the love for an unproven Allen. Payton surely likes his puppets while he's pulling their strings.

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2017, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper

So, as DC, the past decade:
2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds
2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds
2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds
2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds
2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds
2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds
2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds

It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB.

Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something...

And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...?

And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...?

If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?[/QUOTE]
I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity?[/QUOTE]

No. You TOTALLY missed my point. Wade Phillips isn't coming to the Saints. He has no reason to come to the Saints. I agree completely that when given enough time and the right mix of players, Phillips can put a very good defense on the field. But getting him is a pipe dream. If there was any shot in hell of his coming to the Saints, Dennis Allen would have been on the same bus out of town as Vitt and the others. The Saints would have just as much of a chance of having Bill Belichick becoming their next DC as Phillips.

The "fascination" to which I am referring to is the going on and on about something that has no shot of happening.

RailBoss · 01-09-2017, 10:26 AM

Wade's aspirations could be back as a HC with one of the teams. There are a lot of vacancies right now and he may go that route. In my opinion Wade is an outstanding DC but as HC maybe not so much however his record wasn't too bad except for 2010 with the Cowboys.

halloween 65 · 01-09-2017, 11:36 AM

Wade Phillips would do 10x better with the personel we have now than Allen. It's almost funny Payton with his wisdom of DC's wouldn't want the best. I bet our O would love it.

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2017, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by halloween 65

Wade Phillips would do 10x better with the personel we have now than Allen. It's almost funny Payton with his wisdom of DC's wouldn't want the best. I bet our O would love it.

An assumption based upon what? Coach Spags has a reputation as one of the best defensive minds in the game today with his 4-3 defenses. Yet, he came into New Orleans with a roster filled with 3-4 personnel and failed miserably. The most likely scenario is that the same would happen with Phillips. Phillips would try to cram the current personnel into his mold. We have experienced this experiment and his was a nightmare. It is not going to happen. Payton isn't that stupid.

dam1953 · 01-09-2017, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

An assumption based upon what? ... Payton isn't that stupid.

Considering the performance of our draft picks, the amount of dead money from cutting players after signing them to nice fat contracts, the number of free agent duds and the revolving door of defensive coordinators.... I, for one, have questioned Payton's sanity on a number of occasions.

AsylumGuido · 01-09-2017, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by dam1953

Considering the performance of our draft picks, the amount of dead money from cutting players after signing them to nice fat contracts, the number of free agent duds and the revolving door of defensive coordinators.... I, for one, have questioned Payton's sanity of a number of occasions.

I glad you mentioned dead money. That dead money could have been avoided by simply not cutting those players and keeping them on the roster taking up a needed roster spot while counting MORE toward the cap than the dead money amount. Sometimes it is best to take the hit. You only have 53 roster spots. That is not that many. Not all franchises would do that.

I also agree completely about the defensive coordinators. Some around here must not have a problem with that point as they are wishing that door would take yet another turn. Hopefully Payton has learned that lesson. Just has he has learned from the past draft mistakes. After bringing in Jeff Ireland, the draft results over the past two years have been mush better, don't you agree?

dam1953 · 01-09-2017, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

I glad you mentioned dead money. That dead money could have been avoided by simply not cutting those players and keeping them on the roster taking up a needed roster spot while counting MORE toward the cap than the dead money amount. Sometimes it is best to take the hit. You only have 53 roster spots. That is not that many. Not all franchises would do that.

I also agree completely about the defensive coordinators. Some around here must not have a problem with that point as they are wishing that door would take yet another turn. Hopefully Payton has learned that lesson. Just has he has learned from the past draft mistakes. After bringing in Jeff Ireland, the draft results over the past two years have been mush better, don't you agree?

I agree that the draft picks have improved as of late. I also think that the FA's we brought in last year were some of the best since Payton's early years in NO. So, things seem to be heading in the right direction. I don't understand how we signed Galette to a multiyear contract one year and cut him the next because he was a disruptive force in the locker room. Years back, when the Saints were a premier team and people were using the dynasty word, Loomis commented how he and Payton focussed on bringing in athletes with character. Seems that someone lost the ability to diagnose a cancer.

It appears that during Payton's year away from the team has had a long term impact. Hopefully, this will get things in order in time for Brees to get us another ring.

01-08-2017, 12:40 PM	#1
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: You're Sean Payton I simply don't get this fascination with Wade Phillips. There is no way Denver would voluntarily cut ties with Phillips. They have the perfect set of personnel for his scheme. Why would Phillips ever consider leaving the perfect setup to go to a team with nothing in place to support his style of play? Not only does it not make sense for the Broncos or for Phillips, it makes no sense for the Saints to once again ditch a base defensive scheme that they have spent the past two years populating to once again start over. That would guarantee another two or more years of defensive struggles just due to instability. That is the last thing the Saints need. If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-09-2017, 09:04 AM	#2
Tobias-Reiper Merces Letifer Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 4,161	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I simply don't get this fascination with Wade Phillips. So, as DC, the past decade: 2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds 2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds 2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds 2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds 2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds 2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds 2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB. There is no way Denver would voluntarily cut ties with Phillips Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something... Why would Phillips ever consider leaving the perfect setup to go to a team with nothing in place to support his style of play? And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...? ... it makes no sense for the Saints to once again ditch a base defensive scheme that they have spent the past two years populating to once again start over. That would guarantee another two or more years of defensive struggles just due to instability. That is the last thing the Saints need. And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...? If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing? I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity? dizzle88 and halloween 65 like this.
	'Cause the simple man pays the thrills, the bills and the pills that kill Last edited by Tobias-Reiper; 01-09-2017 at 12:45 PM.. Reason: typos, syntax, etc

01-09-2017, 09:29 AM	#4
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper So, as DC, the past decade: 2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds 2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds 2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds 2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds 2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds 2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds 2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB. Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something... And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...? And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...? If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?[/QUOTE] I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity?[/QUOTE] No. You TOTALLY missed my point. Wade Phillips isn't coming to the Saints. He has no reason to come to the Saints. I agree completely that when given enough time and the right mix of players, Phillips can put a very good defense on the field. But getting him is a pipe dream. If there was any shot in hell of his coming to the Saints, Dennis Allen would have been on the same bus out of town as Vitt and the others. The Saints would have just as much of a chance of having Bill Belichick becoming their next DC as Phillips. The "fascination" to which I am referring to is the going on and on about something that has no shot of happening. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-09-2017, 10:26 AM	#5
RailBoss 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Of The Mason Dixon Line Posts: 7,113	Re: You're Sean Payton Wade's aspirations could be back as a HC with one of the teams. There are a lot of vacancies right now and he may go that route. In my opinion Wade is an outstanding DC but as HC maybe not so much however his record wasn't too bad except for 2010 with the Cowboys. SaintFanInATLHELL likes this.

01-09-2017, 11:36 AM	#6
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: You're Sean Payton Wade Phillips would do 10x better with the personel we have now than Allen. It's almost funny Payton with his wisdom of DC's wouldn't want the best. I bet our O would love it. dizzle88 likes this.

01-09-2017, 09:18 AM	#3
halloween 65 5000 POSTS! + Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Grand Haven, Michigan by way of a little Mississippi River town in Louisiana Posts: 5,893	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by Tobias-Reiper So, as DC, the past decade: 2006 San Diego Chargers defense #7 pts #10 yds 2011 Houston Texans defense #4 pts #2 yrds 2012 Houston Texans defense #9 pts #7 yrds 2013 Houston Texans defense #24 pts #7 yrds 2014 Denver Broncos defense #16 pts #3 yrds 2015 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #1 yrds 2016 Denver Broncos defense #4 pts #4 yrds It's not "fascination". It is that Wade Phillips is a well established DC, with a track record of success with different teams, and as of right now, he's available. Except for 2013, all of the listed defenses would probably have put the Saints in the SB. Cuba Gooding Jr. would like to say something... And you know there is nothing in NO to support his style of play because...? And the guarantee that the Saints defense is not going to continue its struggle of the past 6-7 years is...? If y'all want some sort of outlandish dream of a defensive savior, why not one that wouldn't totally trash what promise the defense has finally began showing?[/QUOTE] I don't want, as you so dramatically put, any sort of "outlandish dream of a defensive savior". Here is the deal: the Saints have Drew Brees for 2 years? 3 years? After Drew is gone, you can kiss those customary 5,000 yd seasons goodbye. Wade Phillips is a known commodity at DC, and as of right now, available. So, all things equal, the question becomes, do you go with what what promise the defense began showing, or with the established commodity?[/QUOTE] Exactly. A proven DC over a ? anyday. I just don't understand the love for an unproven Allen. Payton surely likes his puppets while he's pulling their strings.

01-09-2017, 11:44 AM	#7
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by halloween 65 Wade Phillips would do 10x better with the personel we have now than Allen. It's almost funny Payton with his wisdom of DC's wouldn't want the best. I bet our O would love it. An assumption based upon what? Coach Spags has a reputation as one of the best defensive minds in the game today with his 4-3 defenses. Yet, he came into New Orleans with a roster filled with 3-4 personnel and failed miserably. The most likely scenario is that the same would happen with Phillips. Phillips would try to cram the current personnel into his mold. We have experienced this experiment and his was a nightmare. It is not going to happen. Payton isn't that stupid.

01-09-2017, 11:52 AM	#8
dam1953 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,645	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido An assumption based upon what? ... Payton isn't that stupid. Considering the performance of our draft picks, the amount of dead money from cutting players after signing them to nice fat contracts, the number of free agent duds and the revolving door of defensive coordinators.... I, for one, have questioned Payton's sanity on a number of occasions. dizzle88 and halloween 65 like this.

01-09-2017, 12:08 PM	#9
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,768	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by dam1953 Considering the performance of our draft picks, the amount of dead money from cutting players after signing them to nice fat contracts, the number of free agent duds and the revolving door of defensive coordinators.... I, for one, have questioned Payton's sanity of a number of occasions. I glad you mentioned dead money. That dead money could have been avoided by simply not cutting those players and keeping them on the roster taking up a needed roster spot while counting MORE toward the cap than the dead money amount. Sometimes it is best to take the hit. You only have 53 roster spots. That is not that many. Not all franchises would do that. I also agree completely about the defensive coordinators. Some around here must not have a problem with that point as they are wishing that door would take yet another turn. Hopefully Payton has learned that lesson. Just has he has learned from the past draft mistakes. After bringing in Jeff Ireland, the draft results over the past two years have been mush better, don't you agree? dam1953 likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

01-09-2017, 01:24 PM	#10
dam1953 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 4,645	Re: You're Sean Payton Originally Posted by AsylumGuido I glad you mentioned dead money. That dead money could have been avoided by simply not cutting those players and keeping them on the roster taking up a needed roster spot while counting MORE toward the cap than the dead money amount. Sometimes it is best to take the hit. You only have 53 roster spots. That is not that many. Not all franchises would do that. I also agree completely about the defensive coordinators. Some around here must not have a problem with that point as they are wishing that door would take yet another turn. Hopefully Payton has learned that lesson. Just has he has learned from the past draft mistakes. After bringing in Jeff Ireland, the draft results over the past two years have been mush better, don't you agree? I agree that the draft picks have improved as of late. I also think that the FA's we brought in last year were some of the best since Payton's early years in NO. So, things seem to be heading in the right direction. I don't understand how we signed Galette to a multiyear contract one year and cut him the next because he was a disruptive force in the locker room. Years back, when the Saints were a premier team and people were using the dynasty word, Loomis commented how he and Payton focussed on bringing in athletes with character. Seems that someone lost the ability to diagnose a cancer. It appears that during Payton's year away from the team has had a long term impact. Hopefully, this will get things in order in time for Brees to get us another ring.
	”It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.” Charles Darwin

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