N/S Your take on the XFL

K Major · 02-11-2020, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

Player contracts are not capped at $55,000.. that is the average XFL salary. Some players, such as Cardale Jones are making over $500k.

Holy Cow Batman !

Awesome 10 game salary if you can get it

.

AsylumGuido · 02-11-2020, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by hitta

Player contracts are not capped at $55,000.. that is the average XFL salary. Some players, such as Cardale Jones are making over $500k. Why wouldn't the XFL want to compete with the NFL? Do you think their motto is "Watch the NFL instead, we suck."?

Okay, that is correct, but with an average of $55K there are quite a number of players making less than that, correct? The XFL can never hope to be able to draw the same talent as the NFL and that is the only way they could ever directly compete.

Per league president, Oliver Luck himself:

"We don’t compete with the NFL,” Luck said at an XFL press conference today. “I don’t think anybody competes with the NFL. I love the NFL. It’s a juggernaut, it’s an awesome league, I was proud to be a player way back in the day, I’m proud my son can play in the league. We have great relationships with both the league office and the local teams in the markets we’re in. So we want to be a complement. We want to stay away from politics. We want to play good football, make it family affordable, keep it relatively simple, a fun day out at the ballpark, the stadium, and try to stay away as best we can from all the other issues. You’ll never hear me say a bad word about the National Football League."

AsylumGuido · 02-11-2020, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by K Major

Holy Cow Batman !

Awesome 10 game salary if you can get it .

Apparently a few of the very top QB's can reach that figure. Given there is central ownership of all eight teams players have no leverage and are forced to play within the leagues standardized pay structure. To survive they need to stick to their strategy of providing affordable entertainment and that can only be done if player salaries are held to a minimum. There should be little overlap of the talent pools between the two leagues. The highest paid XFL QB's appear to make the same as a long snapper in the NFL. Becoming competition with the CFL may become attainable some day. That could possibly fit within their operating model.

neugey · 02-11-2020, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Apparently a few of the very top QB's can reach that figure. Given there is central ownership of all eight teams players have no leverage and are forced to play within the leagues standardized pay structure. To survive they need to stick to their strategy of providing affordable entertainment and that can only be done if player salaries are held to a minimum. There should be little overlap of the talent pools between the two leagues. The highest paid XFL QB's appear to make the same as a long snapper in the NFL. Becoming competition with the CFL may become attainable some day. That could possibly fit within their operating model.

Agree. Now that I think about it, the new XFL actually reminds me of NFL Europe, just not as closely tied to the NFL. It was a bit disappointing when NFL Europe was discontinued and the new XFL fills that void.

hitta · 02-11-2020, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido

Okay, that is correct, but with an average of $55K there are quite a number of players making less than that, correct? The XFL can never hope to be able to draw the same talent as the NFL and that is the only way they could ever directly compete.

Per league president, Oliver Luck himself:

"We don’t compete with the NFL,” Luck said at an XFL press conference today. “I don’t think anybody competes with the NFL. I love the NFL. It’s a juggernaut, it’s an awesome league, I was proud to be a player way back in the day, I’m proud my son can play in the league. We have great relationships with both the league office and the local teams in the markets we’re in. So we want to be a complement. We want to stay away from politics. We want to play good football, make it family affordable, keep it relatively simple, a fun day out at the ballpark, the stadium, and try to stay away as best we can from all the other issues. You’ll never hear me say a bad word about the National Football League."

I don't care whether they say they are trying to compete with the NFL or not. When you create a company in the same field as another company, and you make changes to your brand(XFL) that differ from the other brand(NFL) in order to attract viewers you are by definition competing with them. If one of the driving factors in a company trying to sell their product is by creating a juxtaposition to another companies product then there is competition. Even if the only differentiating factor that the league was offering was giving players that wouldn't have a shot in the NFL a chance to compete, that is still something they are attempting to offer that the NFL does not offer, hence they are competing with the league. When they say they aren't trying to compete with the NFL, this is just their marketing/advertising scheme.

I'm sure as a league they do want to share viewers with the NFL(complement as they say). They are doing things that they hope will attract viewers that the NFL doesn't have as well.

AsylumGuido · 02-11-2020, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

I don't care whether they say they are trying to compete with the NFL or not. When you create a company in the same field as another company, and you make changes to your brand(XFL) that differ from the other brand(NFL) in order to attract viewers you are by definition competing with them. If one of the driving factors in a company trying to sell their product is by creating a juxtaposition to another companies product then there is competition. Even if the only differentiating factor that the league was offering was giving players that wouldn't have a shot in the NFL a chance to compete, that is still something they are attempting to offer that the NFL does not offer, hence they are competing with the league. When they say they aren't trying to compete with the NFL, this is just their marketing/advertising scheme.

I'm sure as a league they do want to share viewers with the NFL(complement as they say). They are doing things that they hope will attract viewers that the NFL doesn't have as well.

This started off with you complaining about the NFL being an "unfair monopoly" and you were hopeful that the XFL has the financial backing to be the "more successful" league that puts better product on the field than the NFL. I was pointing out that it is impossible for the XFL to put a better product out on the field based upon the market the are hoping to capture. Their existence will have no adverse affect on the NFL. They are not in competition at all. They are not competing for players. Making sure their season does not overlap with the NFL's ensures they are not in competition for fans.

They are no more of a competitor of the NFL than is college or minor league baseball to the MLB.

TheOak · 02-11-2020, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by hitta

That has a lot to do with the fact that the NFL is a unfair monopoly that gets billions in subsidies from US taxpayers making it very difficult for other organizations to compete with it for market share. This in turn makes it so they can do whatever they want and still control the market. It shouldn't work this way. There should be competition between different leagues, and the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field. This is the prime reason that I have a little hope in the XFL as it has better financial backing than the other attempts.

If that is what you chose to believe then it is on you.

Fact of the matter is that money and power do not drive interest and fanbase in the entertainment industry. David Tepper and Stan Kroneke (rightnow you are asking your self who in the **** are they, so did I) are the two richest NFL team owners and I wouldn't watch the Panthers or the Rams if you paid me.

Product appeal drives revenue pure and simple. This is why Brittany Spears has the number one single of all time in terms of sales... Its not her talent or skill. its why Bing Crosby has the #2 and #4 selling singles of all time, he has no power or money and died 43 years ago. Its why a little company named Microsoft crushed IMB and why a little company named Apple crushed Microsoft... Better products at the right time. Coke a Cola has a LOT or power and money, New Coke flopped in 1985.

To date one of your statements is correct:"the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field."

What appeals to you is irrelevant, its what appeals to the broadest audience that makes money and power. In spite of its issues, to date.. no one has put a better product on the field than the NFL. Right now those honours go to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL.

BTW, team owners negotiate with local government for stadiums and local concessions, not the league. This is why not all stadiums or teams are created or function equally.

I get that you were fed a line of sh1t and it made sense when you heard it, it wasn't correct.

skymike · 02-12-2020, 12:30 AM

History repeats itself over and over.

There was the AFL. An "inferior" league filled with "reject" players until
Super Bowl III. And then Super Bowl IV. By the merger, you had dynasties in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and for a while, the old NFL teams couldnt win a SB.

The USFL, which suicided itself, also filled with many players who became
stars in the NFL, including 1/2 of our Dome Patrol, and our most successful
coach up to that date in Jim Mora, not to mention our starting QB for how many years?

Learn from the past, before you dismiss a rising star. And personally, I'm eager to see a bunch of hungry players show their worth in Houston. Its a great entertainment value, and you'll be able to say, "I knew that guy, when...."

Also, I think this will be like being an old AFL Fan. Who knows what will happen? I'll try it.

CHA_CHING · 02-12-2020, 05:09 AM

It won't last past 2 years.

CHA_CHING · 02-12-2020, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by skymike

History repeats itself over and over.

There was the AFL. An "inferior" league filled with "reject" players until
Super Bowl III. And then Super Bowl IV. By the merger, you had dynasties in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and for a while, the old NFL teams couldnt win a SB.

Pittsburgh was an NFL team. The old Steelers were pretty much bottom feeders before the merger. After the merger, NFL franchises Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Baltimore (Colts) all moved to the AFC. Baltimore played in an early SB under the AFC banner against Dallas.

Historically, the AFL had success too cause they allowed black players when the NFL wouldn't. Vince Lombardi was controversial in his era for allowing multiple black players as starters on his Packers teams, something that did not go over well with the other coaches and owners in the league. This wasn't a problem in the AFL, as they many black players, including stars in their era. Jim Brown famously retired in his prime due to the racism he endured in the old NFL before the merger.

I'm not sure if I'd call all the AFL stars rejects from the NFL, cause many of them wanted to go to those teams. I've done a lot of research and reading on the AFL, cause I was fascinated with their history. The AFL was a different beast from the NFL all together. Joe Namath had a 4,000+ passing yard season in the AFL, something unheard of in the NFL. One of the key selling points was that the AFL had the high-scoring, shoot out games. It's debatable which teams had any defenses in the AFL, cause there were tons of games that were shoot outs, some even with both teams scoring in the 40s. On lists of highest scoring games in history, I think there are still some AFL games on there to this day.

It also helped the AFL that they had teams in areas and markets that the NFL had yet to expand in. They had the Patriots in the Boston area, Dolphins down in South Florida and 2 teams in the southern Cali area (Chargers and Raiders).

I don't think this is the same situation though. The pay for the XFL and injuries will be one of it's downfalls.

02-11-2020, 11:56 AM	#21
K Major Site Donor 2019 Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Bedford, TX Posts: 24,622 Blog Entries: 3	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by hitta Player contracts are not capped at $55,000.. that is the average XFL salary. Some players, such as Cardale Jones are making over $500k. Holy Cow Batman ! Awesome 10 game salary if you can get it .

02-11-2020, 11:59 AM	#22
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by hitta Player contracts are not capped at $55,000.. that is the average XFL salary. Some players, such as Cardale Jones are making over $500k. Why wouldn't the XFL want to compete with the NFL? Do you think their motto is "Watch the NFL instead, we suck."? Okay, that is correct, but with an average of $55K there are quite a number of players making less than that, correct? The XFL can never hope to be able to draw the same talent as the NFL and that is the only way they could ever directly compete. Per league president, Oliver Luck himself: "We don’t compete with the NFL,” Luck said at an XFL press conference today. “I don’t think anybody competes with the NFL. I love the NFL. It’s a juggernaut, it’s an awesome league, I was proud to be a player way back in the day, I’m proud my son can play in the league. We have great relationships with both the league office and the local teams in the markets we’re in. So we want to be a complement. We want to stay away from politics. We want to play good football, make it family affordable, keep it relatively simple, a fun day out at the ballpark, the stadium, and try to stay away as best we can from all the other issues. You’ll never hear me say a bad word about the National Football League."
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-11-2020, 12:10 PM	#23
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by K Major Holy Cow Batman ! Awesome 10 game salary if you can get it . Apparently a few of the very top QB's can reach that figure. Given there is central ownership of all eight teams players have no leverage and are forced to play within the leagues standardized pay structure. To survive they need to stick to their strategy of providing affordable entertainment and that can only be done if player salaries are held to a minimum. There should be little overlap of the talent pools between the two leagues. The highest paid XFL QB's appear to make the same as a long snapper in the NFL. Becoming competition with the CFL may become attainable some day. That could possibly fit within their operating model. neugey likes this.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-11-2020, 12:26 PM	#24
neugey Hu Dat! Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,715 Blog Entries: 13	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Apparently a few of the very top QB's can reach that figure. Given there is central ownership of all eight teams players have no leverage and are forced to play within the leagues standardized pay structure. To survive they need to stick to their strategy of providing affordable entertainment and that can only be done if player salaries are held to a minimum. There should be little overlap of the talent pools between the two leagues. The highest paid XFL QB's appear to make the same as a long snapper in the NFL. Becoming competition with the CFL may become attainable some day. That could possibly fit within their operating model. Agree. Now that I think about it, the new XFL actually reminds me of NFL Europe, just not as closely tied to the NFL. It was a bit disappointing when NFL Europe was discontinued and the new XFL fills that void.

02-11-2020, 12:58 PM	#25
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by AsylumGuido Okay, that is correct, but with an average of $55K there are quite a number of players making less than that, correct? The XFL can never hope to be able to draw the same talent as the NFL and that is the only way they could ever directly compete. Per league president, Oliver Luck himself: "We don’t compete with the NFL,” Luck said at an XFL press conference today. “I don’t think anybody competes with the NFL. I love the NFL. It’s a juggernaut, it’s an awesome league, I was proud to be a player way back in the day, I’m proud my son can play in the league. We have great relationships with both the league office and the local teams in the markets we’re in. So we want to be a complement. We want to stay away from politics. We want to play good football, make it family affordable, keep it relatively simple, a fun day out at the ballpark, the stadium, and try to stay away as best we can from all the other issues. You’ll never hear me say a bad word about the National Football League." I don't care whether they say they are trying to compete with the NFL or not. When you create a company in the same field as another company, and you make changes to your brand(XFL) that differ from the other brand(NFL) in order to attract viewers you are by definition competing with them. If one of the driving factors in a company trying to sell their product is by creating a juxtaposition to another companies product then there is competition. Even if the only differentiating factor that the league was offering was giving players that wouldn't have a shot in the NFL a chance to compete, that is still something they are attempting to offer that the NFL does not offer, hence they are competing with the league. When they say they aren't trying to compete with the NFL, this is just their marketing/advertising scheme. I'm sure as a league they do want to share viewers with the NFL(complement as they say). They are doing things that they hope will attract viewers that the NFL doesn't have as well.
hitta 1000 Posts + Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,324

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02-11-2020, 03:04 PM	#26
AsylumGuido 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bossier City, LA Posts: 26,274	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by hitta I don't care whether they say they are trying to compete with the NFL or not. When you create a company in the same field as another company, and you make changes to your brand(XFL) that differ from the other brand(NFL) in order to attract viewers you are by definition competing with them. If one of the driving factors in a company trying to sell their product is by creating a juxtaposition to another companies product then there is competition. Even if the only differentiating factor that the league was offering was giving players that wouldn't have a shot in the NFL a chance to compete, that is still something they are attempting to offer that the NFL does not offer, hence they are competing with the league. When they say they aren't trying to compete with the NFL, this is just their marketing/advertising scheme. I'm sure as a league they do want to share viewers with the NFL(complement as they say). They are doing things that they hope will attract viewers that the NFL doesn't have as well. This started off with you complaining about the NFL being an "unfair monopoly" and you were hopeful that the XFL has the financial backing to be the "more successful" league that puts better product on the field than the NFL. I was pointing out that it is impossible for the XFL to put a better product out on the field based upon the market the are hoping to capture. Their existence will have no adverse affect on the NFL. They are not in competition at all. They are not competing for players. Making sure their season does not overlap with the NFL's ensures they are not in competition for fans. They are no more of a competitor of the NFL than is college or minor league baseball to the MLB.
	“The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.” — Winston Churchill

02-11-2020, 04:15 PM	#27
TheOak 10000 POST CLUB Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Cypress Tx. Posts: 19,027	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by hitta That has a lot to do with the fact that the NFL is a unfair monopoly that gets billions in subsidies from US taxpayers making it very difficult for other organizations to compete with it for market share. This in turn makes it so they can do whatever they want and still control the market. It shouldn't work this way. There should be competition between different leagues, and the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field. This is the prime reason that I have a little hope in the XFL as it has better financial backing than the other attempts. If that is what you chose to believe then it is on you. Fact of the matter is that money and power do not drive interest and fanbase in the entertainment industry. David Tepper and Stan Kroneke (rightnow you are asking your self who in the **** are they, so did I) are the two richest NFL team owners and I wouldn't watch the Panthers or the Rams if you paid me. Product appeal drives revenue pure and simple. This is why Brittany Spears has the number one single of all time in terms of sales... Its not her talent or skill. its why Bing Crosby has the #2 and #4 selling singles of all time, he has no power or money and died 43 years ago. Its why a little company named Microsoft crushed IMB and why a little company named Apple crushed Microsoft... Better products at the right time. Coke a Cola has a LOT or power and money, New Coke flopped in 1985. To date one of your statements is correct:"the best most successful leagues should be the ones that put the best product on the field." What appeals to you is irrelevant, its what appeals to the broadest audience that makes money and power. In spite of its issues, to date.. no one has put a better product on the field than the NFL. Right now those honours go to the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL. BTW, team owners negotiate with local government for stadiums and local concessions, not the league. This is why not all stadiums or teams are created or function equally. I get that you were fed a line of sh1t and it made sense when you heard it, it wasn't correct.
	It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau Last edited by TheOak; 02-11-2020 at 04:33 PM..

02-12-2020, 12:30 AM	#28
skymike E. Side Cholo Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The Barrio, H-town Posts: 6,089	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL History repeats itself over and over. There was the AFL. An "inferior" league filled with "reject" players until Super Bowl III. And then Super Bowl IV. By the merger, you had dynasties in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and for a while, the old NFL teams couldnt win a SB. The USFL, which suicided itself, also filled with many players who became stars in the NFL, including 1/2 of our Dome Patrol, and our most successful coach up to that date in Jim Mora, not to mention our starting QB for how many years? Learn from the past, before you dismiss a rising star. And personally, I'm eager to see a bunch of hungry players show their worth in Houston. Its a great entertainment value, and you'll be able to say, "I knew that guy, when...." Also, I think this will be like being an old AFL Fan. Who knows what will happen? I'll try it. neugey and TheOak like this.

02-12-2020, 05:09 AM	#29
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL It won't last past 2 years.

02-12-2020, 05:17 AM	#30
CHA_CHING 1000 Posts + Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 1,159	Re: N/S Your take on the XFL Originally Posted by skymike History repeats itself over and over. There was the AFL. An "inferior" league filled with "reject" players until Super Bowl III. And then Super Bowl IV. By the merger, you had dynasties in Miami, Pittsburgh, and Oakland, and for a while, the old NFL teams couldnt win a SB. Pittsburgh was an NFL team. The old Steelers were pretty much bottom feeders before the merger. After the merger, NFL franchises Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati and Baltimore (Colts) all moved to the AFC. Baltimore played in an early SB under the AFC banner against Dallas. Historically, the AFL had success too cause they allowed black players when the NFL wouldn't. Vince Lombardi was controversial in his era for allowing multiple black players as starters on his Packers teams, something that did not go over well with the other coaches and owners in the league. This wasn't a problem in the AFL, as they many black players, including stars in their era. Jim Brown famously retired in his prime due to the racism he endured in the old NFL before the merger. I'm not sure if I'd call all the AFL stars rejects from the NFL, cause many of them wanted to go to those teams. I've done a lot of research and reading on the AFL, cause I was fascinated with their history. The AFL was a different beast from the NFL all together. Joe Namath had a 4,000+ passing yard season in the AFL, something unheard of in the NFL. One of the key selling points was that the AFL had the high-scoring, shoot out games. It's debatable which teams had any defenses in the AFL, cause there were tons of games that were shoot outs, some even with both teams scoring in the 40s. On lists of highest scoring games in history, I think there are still some AFL games on there to this day. It also helped the AFL that they had teams in areas and markets that the NFL had yet to expand in. They had the Patriots in the Boston area, Dolphins down in South Florida and 2 teams in the southern Cali area (Chargers and Raiders). I don't think this is the same situation though. The pay for the XFL and injuries will be one of it's downfalls.