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N/S Your take on the XFL

this is a discussion within the Saints Community Forum; Originally Posted by burningmetal How are they hoping to fill a niche, as opposed to trying to create a football league that people might enjoy? Because you say so? Are you that threatened that someone might consider making a run ...

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Old 03-03-2020, 03:10 PM   #71
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
How are they hoping to fill a niche, as opposed to trying to create a football league that people might enjoy? Because you say so? Are you that threatened that someone might consider making a run at the league that you evidently worship, that you can't accept any other reality?

You clearly did not grasp the concept of what I said before. The object is not to compete in season with the NFL and take it down. It's to create a league that people will enjoy and give them a reprieve from wussball. And that appeals to a lot more people than you seem to realize. Of course it takes time for it to build it's brand. I said as much, and I am also not predicting that it will definitely succeed. I'm telling you what the goal is.

You don't start a new league in the middle of an established league. That's why they started after the Super Bowl. It's not about riding coattails. And of course their commissioner is going to say they aren't competing with the NFL. It's not a head to head match, it's a process. And these guys aren't dumb enough to come out and say "we're going to war with the NFL". It's incredible to me that you would expect otherwise.

If they don't try to separate themselves from the NFL, they won't last. And they might NOT last. But it's been proven that being a "lapdog" for the NFL doesn't interest people. And Vince McMahon, regardless of what you think of him, is nothing if not a ruthless business competitor. It's not in his personality to just get by. We'll see how it works.
Backing off the "competition" claims a bit, huh? So you claim they are giving a reprieve from wussball. Sorry to inform you that the XFL rules have wussed it down even more than the NFL with all of their kickoff and punt rules. Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed the XFL thus far. Not because it is in any way superior to the NFL, but because it is professional football. I understand, even if by some miracle it lasts, that it is not and never will be as high a quality product as the NFL.

And it is absolutely a niche product geared toward giving rabid NFL fans a little off-season snack to get them by. Understanding and embracing that niche gives the league its best, and most likely, its only chance of surviving more than a season or two.

I am Believing!
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Old 03-03-2020, 03:13 PM   #72
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by K Major View Post
What about that Dallas Renegade QB though?

Landry is tough on the eyes. He's turning into Jameis Winston of the XFL.

No need to help Houston out, they're good enough as it is.

Some fans in the crowd were chanting "bench him, bench him" after his 3rd INT.
Man, I feel for that guy. Hard to watch
K Major likes this.
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Old 03-03-2020, 04:09 PM   #73
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
Backing off the "competition" claims a bit, huh? So you claim they are giving a reprieve from wussball. Sorry to inform you that the XFL rules have wussed it down even more than the NFL with all of their kickoff and punt rules. Don't get me wrong, I have really enjoyed the XFL thus far. Not because it is in any way superior to the NFL, but because it is professional football. I understand, even if by some miracle it lasts, that it is not and never will be as high a quality product as the NFL.

And it is absolutely a niche product geared toward giving rabid NFL fans a little off-season snack to get them by. Understanding and embracing that niche gives the league its best, and most likely, its only chance of surviving more than a season or two.
I have not "backed off" in the least. You have a lack of understanding of what kind of strategy of competition is being attempted, and after further clarification on my part, you seem even further away from understanding my point.

You are apparently under the impression that it's not a competition, because the XFL started AFTER the NFL season ended. What I'm telling you, as I have already stated twice, is that it is not intended as a head to head fight to destroy the NFL. That would be entirely too ambitious of a starting plan. The idea is to compete by creating a brand that draws fans in with a more physical game that is decided by players, instead of stifling rules. And IF, down the road, they can generate the type of viewership and revenue necessary to make a play on would-be NFL caliber players, then they could be more aggressive in a more direct competition with the NFL.

It is a competition, but it's a long game. And I couldn't possibly predict how it will go. I'm not making a bold proclamation, I'm telling you, once more, that Vince McMahon is not looking to ride anyone's coattails.

It it undeniable that they benefit from fans' natural love of football, to some extent. But it can't succeed if it just allows itself to be an NFL farm system. It is also undeniable that, in the beginning, it WILL serve for players as a minor league showcase, because players will always follow the money, until such time as another league can compete financially. That's not the same thing as NFL Europe, or the AAF, which were set up to be NFL minor leagues, and testing grounds.

And all the other failed leagues who DID try to compete with the NFL never had enough money to get off the ground, aside from the USFL. But the USFL tried to compete in season with the NFL. The NFL illegally monopolized the major TV market, and nothing was done to them. So the USFL couldn't make money, and died. McMahon has a huge business empire to back his league, and he has an open season to air his games on national television. IF he plays his cards right, he can be successful.

You claimed the XFL has furthered the wussification with their kickoff and punt rules... That's either a complete lie or you haven't read the rules correctly. The XFL's rules ensure that there will be FAR more returns on both kickoffs and punts. That has been sorely missed in the NFL. It's not traditional NFL rules, but it's far more interesting to see kick returns, than touchbacks and fair catches, constantly. So how is that MORE "wussed down"?

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 03-03-2020, 05:01 PM   #74
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
I have not "backed off" in the least. You have a lack of understanding of what kind of strategy of competition is being attempted, and after further clarification on my part, you seem even further away from understanding my point.

You are apparently under the impression that it's not a competition, because the XFL started AFTER the NFL season ended. What I'm telling you, as I have already stated twice, is that it is not intended as a head to head fight to destroy the NFL. That would be entirely too ambitious of a starting plan. The idea is to compete by creating a brand that draws fans in with a more physical game that is decided by players, instead of stifling rules. And IF, down the road, they can generate the type of viewership and revenue necessary to make a play on would-be NFL caliber players, then they could be more aggressive in a more direct competition with the NFL.

It is a competition, but it's a long game. And I couldn't possibly predict how it will go. I'm not making a bold proclamation, I'm telling you, once more, that Vince McMahon is not looking to ride anyone's coattails.

It it undeniable that they benefit from fans' natural love of football, to some extent. But it can't succeed if it just allows itself to be an NFL farm system. It is also undeniable that, in the beginning, it WILL serve for players as a minor league showcase, because players will always follow the money, until such time as another league can compete financially. That's not the same thing as NFL Europe, or the AAF, which were set up to be NFL minor leagues, and testing grounds.

And all the other failed leagues who DID try to compete with the NFL never had enough money to get off the ground, aside from the USFL. But the USFL tried to compete in season with the NFL. The NFL illegally monopolized the major TV market, and nothing was done to them. So the USFL couldn't make money, and died. McMahon has a huge business empire to back his league, and he has an open season to air his games on national television. IF he plays his cards right, he can be successful.

You claimed the XFL has furthered the wussification with their kickoff and punt rules... That's either a complete lie or you haven't read the rules correctly. The XFL's rules ensure that there will be FAR more returns on both kickoffs and punts. That has been sorely missed in the NFL. It's not traditional NFL rules, but it's far more interesting to see kick returns, than touchbacks and fair catches, constantly. So how is that MORE "wussed down"?
By wussed down they have eliminated those huge hits that made the brutal game so popular. The exact popularity that you claim the XFL will provide. All the XFL has done is act as a proving ground to help make the game safer. You can be assured that any rule they applied that is different than that of the NFL was first discussed by the NFL. Do not forget that Dean Blandino is head of officiating for the XFL and was the NFL's Vice-President of Officiating and had a very active involvement in the rules making in both leagues. There is FAR more crossover between the NFL and XFL than you imply. I have no doubt those people are watching the XFL experiments closely and will seriously consider adopting the more successful rules in the days to come.

And, yes, the league does have a chance to be successful if everything falls into place. The level of that success, however, has no chance whatsoever to approach the level of the NFL. To believe that it can is foolish. Once a again, its best chance to survive and be successful is to not step on the feet of the NFL. The NFL is currently a $14.4 billion entity. That number will climb tremendously with the new CBA. McMahon will certainly be overjoyed if his fledgling league could hope to reach a fraction of that success. His WWE generates around $1 billion annually. To match that number with the XFL would take years and would be huge. But it would still be a drop in the bucket as compared to the NFL by that point.

Sorry, my friend, but once again, to dream that the XFL will ever have any competitive affect on the NFL is silly.

I honestly hope they are successful. I would love to have more pro football, albeit inevitably inferior to the NFL, to watch in the Spring.

I am Believing!
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Old 03-03-2020, 06:45 PM   #75
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by AsylumGuido View Post
By wussed down they have eliminated those huge hits that made the brutal game so popular. The exact popularity that you claim the XFL will provide. All the XFL has done is act as a proving ground to help make the game safer. You can be assured that any rule they applied that is different than that of the NFL was first discussed by the NFL. Do not forget that Dean Blandino is head of officiating for the XFL and was the NFL's Vice-President of Officiating and had a very active involvement in the rules making in both leagues. There is FAR more crossover between the NFL and XFL than you imply. I have no doubt those people are watching the XFL experiments closely and will seriously consider adopting the more successful rules in the days to come.

And, yes, the league does have a chance to be successful if everything falls into place. The level of that success, however, has no chance whatsoever to approach the level of the NFL. To believe that it can is foolish. Once a again, its best chance to survive and be successful is to not step on the feet of the NFL. The NFL is currently a $14.4 billion entity. That number will climb tremendously with the new CBA. McMahon will certainly be overjoyed if his fledgling league could hope to reach a fraction of that success. His WWE generates around $1 billion annually. To match that number with the XFL would take years and would be huge. But it would still be a drop in the bucket as compared to the NFL by that point.

Sorry, my friend, but once again, to dream that the XFL will ever have any competitive affect on the NFL is silly.

I honestly hope they are successful. I would love to have more pro football, albeit inevitably inferior to the NFL, to watch in the Spring.
What in the world are you talking about that they've "eliminated those huge hits that made the brutal game so popular"? Are you talking about the NFL or the XFL? The XFL has not eliminated huge hits. They brought kick returns back to the game, an that also means MORE hits. You're take is total BS, on that one, friend.

Dean Blandino USED to work for the NFL. He does not now. And sure there will be SOME similarities. It's football, and not everything in the NFL is terrible. Did you think this was going to be a repeat of the first XFL?

And keep telling yourself that nothing will ever compete with the NFL. If they don't stop taking a crap on all of the traditions of the game that made it popular, and continue to have scandals, they will eventually run out of luck.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard that, the NFL would fine and suspend me.
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Old 03-03-2020, 08:18 PM   #76
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

How are the ratings BTW? Just hope it can make it!
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:11 AM   #77
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by burningmetal View Post
You always have a way of making false statements with tremendous conviction, my friend. This is ABSOLUTELY meant to be competition for the NFL. Now, who knows how far it will actually go, but we're talking about Vince McMahon. This guy is not looking to be the NFL's developmental league. He wants to make a mark with HIS brand, whether his ideas are good or bad.

Competing with the NFL doesn't mean it's going to take down the NFL. It means trying to do things better than them and establish a brand that people will enjoy more than the NFL. And that would either force the NFL to make changes to counter, or they risk losing a lot of fans. And if as many people who watch the NFL were also watching the XFL in a few years, teams in the XFL could start making financial offers to NFL players that draw them away.

That's all in theory, and all takes time. But you can be sure that is what the goal is. The AAF was what was never meant as competition. It was very clear the NFL was using it as not just a developmental league, but a testing ground for rules changes, and that's why it folded before it even finished it's first season. People wanted to see something more along the lines of what football used to be, before the NFL wussified it, and all they got was a watered down version of the same garbage.
When a business sets out to compete with another business, it does so in the same space. Same space means exactly that, the same exact space. The XFL season is Feb.-Apr. and with the two leagues having different seasons there is truly zero competition for fans or viewership.

It doesn't matter what the XFL's product is like it doesn't compete with the NFL's product until it is in the same time slot.

The XFL's goal is to make a business of filling the void after the NFL season is over. They are hoping to ride the wave of football enthusiasm.

Nothing more, nothing less.

It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Old 03-04-2020, 06:15 AM   #78
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
When a business sets out to compete with another business, it does so in the same space. Same space means exactly that, the same exact space. The XFL season is Feb.-Apr. and with the two leagues having different seasons there is truly zero competition for fans or viewership.

It doesn't matter what the XFL's product is like it doesn't compete with the NFL's product until it is in the same time slot.

The XFL's goal is to make a business of filling the void after the NFL season is over. They are hoping to ride the wave of football enthusiasm.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Why that cannot be understood is beyond me.
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Old 03-04-2020, 07:24 AM   #79
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by TheOak View Post
When a business sets out to compete with another business, it does so in the same space. Same space means exactly that, the same exact space. The XFL season is Feb.-Apr. and with the two leagues having different seasons there is truly zero competition for fans or viewership.

It doesn't matter what the XFL's product is like it doesn't compete with the NFL's product until it is in the same time slot.

The XFL's goal is to make a business of filling the void after the NFL season is over. They are hoping to ride the wave of football enthusiasm.

Nothing more, nothing less.
Just not true. Itís can be incredibly stupid to fight the alpha head to head, but if you can develop a loyalty and subvert his followers, you donít have to.

A kid doesnít compete with an adult ó yet. But that doesnít mean itís not a future threat.

Especially with an aging product thatís already stepped in it with its most loyal fans.

I agree that right this minute, no, itís no competition. But someone else in the kingdom accruing talent and trying to establish a brand should raise a smart kingís eyebrows.
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Old 03-04-2020, 07:33 AM   #80
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Re: N/S Your take on the XFL

Originally Posted by WillMacKenzie View Post
Just not true. Itís can be incredibly stupid to fight the alpha head to head, but if you can develop a loyalty and subvert his followers, you donít have to.

A kid doesnít compete with an adult ó yet. But that doesnít mean itís not a future threat.

Especially with an aging product thatís already stepped in it with its most loyal fans.

I agree that right this minute, no, itís no competition. But someone else in the kingdom accruing talent and trying to establish a brand should raise a smart kingís eyebrows.
Think you need to slow down and read the totality of Oak's post and not try to parse it out...

The only competition would be in off-season merchandise sales to the NFL that limited disposable income of consumers might spend on the XFL.

As so far as a future threat, HISTORY (for those who understand its importance to study, get it right) shows that if anything, should the XFL be viable, we'll see a merger of new markets and adoption of new rules...
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