2010 NFL Draft

CantonLegend · 02-24-2010, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by jeanpierre

Look, you eval the best player available...

We've a great coach and coaching staff that unlike the Mora Years, they will devise the best scheme around the talent we have...

And not lament that we don't have a two-gap defensive end that can provide pass coverage and kick extra points...

But we've got to draft talent that loves the game (i.e. Hughes)...

That's all I am saying, my brothers...

as great as BPA sounds, it just isnt the case more often than not

teams draft based on need and they draft the best player available at a position that they need.....thats not drafting on BPA, thats drafting by need no matter how you swing it

im not against drafting a DE/OLB hybrid but that would mean we are still weak inside which is, IMO, our biggest weakness

id rather draft a pure DE and have him be able to play both 4-3 and 3-4 for us

there are a couple good DEs and DTs coming out this year and i hope we dont miss out on one of them

this is one of the best draft classes in years and it only helps that its strongest positions are the same positions that we need

Cruize · 02-25-2010, 06:46 AM

I hope somehow the Saints can get Javier Arenas in the draft. He is a GREAT returner, can easily be the dime CB, and would be an all around special teams ace.

stockman311 · 02-25-2010, 01:22 PM

We probably should shelve this debate until the draft. When Cody is available to us at 32 and we pass on his fat non pass rushing ass and pick a traditional 4-3 DT or a traditional pass rushing DE I will come back and say I told you so, and then you can ignore the post. Until then, keep thinking your right.

CantonLegend · 02-25-2010, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by stockman311

We probably should shelve this debate until the draft. When Cody is available to us at 32 and we pass on his fat non pass rushing ass and pick a traditional 4-3 DT or a traditional pass rushing DE I will come back and say I told you so, and then you can ignore the post. Until then, keep thinking your right.

im not here to predict who we will pick....merely give reasons for who i want us to pick

i have no problem picking a DT because that is truely our biggest weakness

but every reason you have given for why you think we wont take cody doesnt matter......you think hes lazy and cant rush the passer which tells me you didnt watch him this year and only saw bits of the coverage on the senior bowl

if we do pick cody will you be the first one to post a crow thread and say i was right?

stockman311 · 02-25-2010, 02:03 PM

Dude, I the NFL Draft is my life. I care about it more than the Superbowl. Yes, if we pick Cody in the first round of the 2010 Draft, I will come on this board and prostrate myself before you.

Also, I'm a huge LSU, and SEC fan, so yes I most certainly watched Alabama last year, and I would say that Cody is a fine DT when it comes to stuffing the run, and that McClain is probably a little overrated as an ILB because of this. That doesn't make Cody a good fit for the Saints. Would I be upset if they picked him? Not really. Would I be schocked? Yes.

stockman311 · 02-25-2010, 02:08 PM

By the way Cody is listed at 6'4 370 lbs. We will find out his measurements for sure within the next couple of days. I'm not interested in a player of that weight.

BRSaintsFan · 02-25-2010, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by CantonLegend

as great as BPA sounds, it just isnt the case more often than not

teams draft based on need and they draft the best player available at a position that they need.....thats not drafting on BPA, thats drafting by need no matter how you swing it

im not against drafting a DE/OLB hybrid but that would mean we are still weak inside which is, IMO, our biggest weakness

id rather draft a pure DE and have him be able to play both 4-3 and 3-4 for us

there are a couple good DEs and DTs coming out this year and i hope we dont miss out on one of them

this is one of the best draft classes in years and it only helps that its strongest positions are the same positions that we need

There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him.

Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost.

BRSaintsFan · 02-25-2010, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him.

Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost.

My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

stockman311 · 02-25-2010, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan

My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

Completely false. We drafted Darren Howard at spot 33 I believe. He was an immediate starter. Drafted Colston in round 7 and he was an immediate starter. The round or spot a player is drafted has little to no bearing on if he will start and turn into a star. In fact, the numbers have been run and it just so happens that second rounders play longer and at a higher level historically than do first rounders.

As to the previous post, if hypothetically the Saints drafted Dez Bryant at 32 before attempting to trade down with a team in the top of round 2 first, I would consider it a wasted pick as we are loaded at WR.

The truth is teams have various needs, so when they say BPA they really mean BPA at one of the various needs the team has. Our needs are clearly DE, DT, at OLB, S or CB if sharper leaves depending on what the team does with Jenkins.

BRSaintsFan · 02-25-2010, 04:24 PM

I would need to see the stats on it because I consider guys like Colston anomalies. Of the past 5 players selected at 32, only 1 was a full time starter their rookie season (Logan Mankins). The others all contributed but were not starters. The point is not that anyone drafted at 32 can not be a starter (Drew Brees was a #32 pick), but rather I do not think that you are banking on your draft pick at 32 to start and produce their rookie season. Not saying it wont happen or doesnt happen, but I dont think you are envisioning your draft pick at 32 coming onto a Super Bowl winning roster and outplaying someone for a starting spot.

I agree we are stacked at WR, but if a talent falls that far then you draft him. You seriously cant tell me that if a top 10 non QB talent falls to you at pick 32, you are going to pass him to fill a need with a player that is at best the 4th best at his position in the draft. If a player can provide an upgrade for your team and you have him valued much greater than any other player left on your draft board, you take that player rather than reach for someone whose value is not as high as the draft slot you are picking in.

I agree and would prefer to see us draft DE or DT or even a young LB, but if the best left are Ricky Sapp, Arthur Jones, and Eric Norwood and the Saints have a player they ranked much higher than 32 on their draft board that falls even though he doesn't fill a perceived need, I would rather see them take that player than pull an Al Davis Oakland Raider reach.

02-24-2010, 11:35 PM	#91
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by jeanpierre Look, you eval the best player available... We've a great coach and coaching staff that unlike the Mora Years, they will devise the best scheme around the talent we have... And not lament that we don't have a two-gap defensive end that can provide pass coverage and kick extra points... But we've got to draft talent that loves the game (i.e. Hughes)... That's all I am saying, my brothers... as great as BPA sounds, it just isnt the case more often than not teams draft based on need and they draft the best player available at a position that they need.....thats not drafting on BPA, thats drafting by need no matter how you swing it im not against drafting a DE/OLB hybrid but that would mean we are still weak inside which is, IMO, our biggest weakness id rather draft a pure DE and have him be able to play both 4-3 and 3-4 for us there are a couple good DEs and DTs coming out this year and i hope we dont miss out on one of them this is one of the best draft classes in years and it only helps that its strongest positions are the same positions that we need
	"deal with it or you can go play the saints and get trounced by 30 and you won't have to worry about it."-colin cowherd

02-25-2010, 06:46 AM	#92
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,452	Re: 2010 NFL Draft I hope somehow the Saints can get Javier Arenas in the draft. He is a GREAT returner, can easily be the dime CB, and would be an all around special teams ace.
Cruize 1000 Posts + Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 4,452

02-25-2010, 01:22 PM	#93
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: 2010 NFL Draft We probably should shelve this debate until the draft. When Cody is available to us at 32 and we pass on his fat non pass rushing ass and pick a traditional 4-3 DT or a traditional pass rushing DE I will come back and say I told you so, and then you can ignore the post. Until then, keep thinking your right.

02-25-2010, 01:42 PM	#94
CantonLegend 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,685 Blog Entries: 2	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by stockman311 We probably should shelve this debate until the draft. When Cody is available to us at 32 and we pass on his fat non pass rushing ass and pick a traditional 4-3 DT or a traditional pass rushing DE I will come back and say I told you so, and then you can ignore the post. Until then, keep thinking your right. im not here to predict who we will pick....merely give reasons for who i want us to pick i have no problem picking a DT because that is truely our biggest weakness but every reason you have given for why you think we wont take cody doesnt matter......you think hes lazy and cant rush the passer which tells me you didnt watch him this year and only saw bits of the coverage on the senior bowl if we do pick cody will you be the first one to post a crow thread and say i was right?

02-25-2010, 02:03 PM	#95
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Dude, I the NFL Draft is my life. I care about it more than the Superbowl. Yes, if we pick Cody in the first round of the 2010 Draft, I will come on this board and prostrate myself before you. Also, I'm a huge LSU, and SEC fan, so yes I most certainly watched Alabama last year, and I would say that Cody is a fine DT when it comes to stuffing the run, and that McClain is probably a little overrated as an ILB because of this. That doesn't make Cody a good fit for the Saints. Would I be upset if they picked him? Not really. Would I be schocked? Yes.

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02-25-2010, 02:08 PM	#96
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: 2010 NFL Draft By the way Cody is listed at 6'4 370 lbs. We will find out his measurements for sure within the next couple of days. I'm not interested in a player of that weight.

02-25-2010, 02:12 PM	#97
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by CantonLegend as great as BPA sounds, it just isnt the case more often than not teams draft based on need and they draft the best player available at a position that they need.....thats not drafting on BPA, thats drafting by need no matter how you swing it im not against drafting a DE/OLB hybrid but that would mean we are still weak inside which is, IMO, our biggest weakness id rather draft a pure DE and have him be able to play both 4-3 and 3-4 for us there are a couple good DEs and DTs coming out this year and i hope we dont miss out on one of them this is one of the best draft classes in years and it only helps that its strongest positions are the same positions that we need There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him. Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost.

02-25-2010, 02:15 PM	#98
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan There is no such thing as a pure BPA draft method. If Jimmy Clausen falls to 32, no we should not taking him. But I think by BPA, you are looking, as you said, for the best player available than would be an upgrade. On the flip side, if Dez Bryant magically falls to 32, do you draft him? I say hell yeah. Do we need another receiever? No, but the value of that player at the spot we draft is too great not to take him and he would be an upgrade. I think this is how the Saints will approach the draft. They will be thinking defensive front 7, but if someone falls and even though the player is not at a "need" position, would be an upgrade, then they draft him. Im a little confused when you say pure DE. I see the D line divided into a few groups: conventional 4-3 end, conventional 4-3 DTs, 3-4 rush LBs, 3-4 ends, and NT. Everson Griffen would be someone I consider a conventional 4-3 end. Brian Price a conventional 4-3 tackle. Brandon Graham a 3-4 rush LB. Jared Odrick a 3-4 end. Terrence Cody a NT. I feel a Carlos Dunlap could play a 4-3 end or a 3-4 end. Suh and McCoy could play a 4-3 tackle or 3-4 end. Dan Williams as a 4-3 tackle or a 3-4 NT. Can someone explain to me the differences between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, 4-3 under tackle? This is where I get lost. My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle.

02-25-2010, 02:23 PM	#99
stockman311 1000 Posts + Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 1,137	Re: 2010 NFL Draft Originally Posted by BRSaintsFan My perspective in picking at 32 is that you are not likely to get an every down starter as a rookie. You are going to get a situational player who may down the line develop into an every down starter. Now certainly the Saints have done a fantastic job of scouting recently, but I would be content with Cody drafted to shore up the run defense with Hargrove mixing in and playing all of the passing situation downs. I do see Cody as being able to thrive more and play a more prominent role in a 3-4 defense, but again, I go back to my last post where I dont really understand the difference between a 3 technique tackle, 2 gap tackle, and 4-3 under tackle. Completely false. We drafted Darren Howard at spot 33 I believe. He was an immediate starter. Drafted Colston in round 7 and he was an immediate starter. The round or spot a player is drafted has little to no bearing on if he will start and turn into a star. In fact, the numbers have been run and it just so happens that second rounders play longer and at a higher level historically than do first rounders. As to the previous post, if hypothetically the Saints drafted Dez Bryant at 32 before attempting to trade down with a team in the top of round 2 first, I would consider it a wasted pick as we are loaded at WR. The truth is teams have various needs, so when they say BPA they really mean BPA at one of the various needs the team has. Our needs are clearly DE, DT, at OLB, S or CB if sharper leaves depending on what the team does with Jenkins.

02-25-2010, 04:24 PM	#100
BRSaintsFan 100th Post Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 449	Re: 2010 NFL Draft I would need to see the stats on it because I consider guys like Colston anomalies. Of the past 5 players selected at 32, only 1 was a full time starter their rookie season (Logan Mankins). The others all contributed but were not starters. The point is not that anyone drafted at 32 can not be a starter (Drew Brees was a #32 pick), but rather I do not think that you are banking on your draft pick at 32 to start and produce their rookie season. Not saying it wont happen or doesnt happen, but I dont think you are envisioning your draft pick at 32 coming onto a Super Bowl winning roster and outplaying someone for a starting spot. I agree we are stacked at WR, but if a talent falls that far then you draft him. You seriously cant tell me that if a top 10 non QB talent falls to you at pick 32, you are going to pass him to fill a need with a player that is at best the 4th best at his position in the draft. If a player can provide an upgrade for your team and you have him valued much greater than any other player left on your draft board, you take that player rather than reach for someone whose value is not as high as the draft slot you are picking in. I agree and would prefer to see us draft DE or DT or even a young LB, but if the best left are Ricky Sapp, Arthur Jones, and Eric Norwood and the Saints have a player they ranked much higher than 32 on their draft board that falls even though he doesn't fill a perceived need, I would rather see them take that player than pull an Al Davis Oakland Raider reach.

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